<p>Best advice given by the neurotic parents of a graduating senior: Don't tell anyone in the class where your D is applying. Shortly after this conversation a parent of a competitive child in the class asked this question. I decided to discuss this topic with no parent in this class.
Although slightly off the topic, having witnessed the present complex requirements for college applications, it is incumbent upon parents to assist with the application process.</p>
<p>Queen's mom, you have no idea. She physically attacked my husband who is about twice her size. There are some incredibly bizarre stories.</p>
<p>SchoolmarmABC Post #44: "We live in the south, maybe things are different down here." Then in the next paragraph you write about your niece in VA and the comment about a family relative suggesting her son cheat. I did grow up in VA and I was always taught that my beloved Virginia was a southern state. I guess the point I am trying to make is that sadly, cheating does occur everywhere and the south is not immune from it.</p>
<p>I can personally tell you that this has happened to me before. A mother at my school heard I was going to be bumped up into Junior and Senior math classes as a Sophmore. Her letter told the school that my lack of effort, work ethic and immature nature would hurt the school and that other students in the grade should be considered over me(I was the only one).</p>
<p>Needless to say, her son is not the most liked person at school. She is very pushy to ensure the best for her son.</p>
<p>I believe we all come to this issue from varying life experiences. I once worked for an employer who regularly defrauded the IRS and tried to get me to assist him. I would not. Other employees did. A year or two later, I discovered it was still going on and I searched my soul and I dropped a dime on him to the IRS. I later found out that half a dozen other current and former employees did the same, all independent of one another. The guy went to prison. </p>
<p>I suppose some of you might think it is better to wait for karma or St. Peter to deal with these sorts of people, or maybe as I, you are more apt to think that karma comes about through the actions of real people sometimes. </p>
<p>In the same breathe, yeah, "ratting out" an innocent person makes you the one who is guilty of doing a very bad thing. Maybe I'm naive, but I tend to believe that if a person is falsely accused, proper investigation will take place and if it is found the accusation is false, the issue goes away. </p>
<p>Some of you are blurring this whole issue by making it about "helicopter parents." I don't interpret it that way. If you witness a car accident, it isn't that you chose to be there at that very moment; it just happened and now the reaction to it is in your hands. Do you stay around and give a witness report, or do you drive off? To me, it matters not whether you are a parent, a student, or whatever, if you are witness to something that is clearly wrong, you have to live with whatever you decide to do with that information -- step up or walk away and leave it to someone else.</p>
<p>As a teacher, I have known some fellow teachers who wanted to send letters to some college admissions people to let them know that a particular student cheated in their class. This was with the blessing of our administration.</p>
<p>We have several high school seniors who have seen what happens when they cheat or just do not apply themselves. They are having a difficult time of finding teachers to write their recommendations. </p>
<p>Burning bridges can be very costly.</p>
<p>In addition to all the other ethical considerations, I think anyone who does this could open themselves up to legal attack, for slander, libel, and/or invasion of privacy.</p>
<p>As a teacher, I KNOW that cheating is very hard to prove. You have to have the kids cold. "All the kids" "knowing" that Susie cheats is NOT proof. </p>
<p>This is a school issue. The school is supposed to send in discipline info. If the school has a policy of expunging records under certain situations, and doesn't report the incidents, that's the schools issue.</p>
<p>LIFE IS NOT FAIR. Sometimes cheaters do prosper, at least for a while.</p>
<p>I am not 100% convinced that all the folks who want to share negative info with colleges about a student have only the purest of intentions. If there is even a remotely potential benefit to your child, this is morally ambiguous, at best, IMO.</p>
<p>I'm just trying to get my kid to finish his essays. That takes most of my "college" energy these days. My house may not be built of glass, but we have windows. No stone-throwing here.</p>
<p>What I know is MORE common is rather than writing a letter to a prospective college, a STUDENT (and sometimes a parent) will engage in a vicious whisper campaign with the intent that it gets around to the counselors or recommending teachers where it could be buried in a confidential form given to the college. Stalker students and stalker parents (mostly moms) are out there! </p>
<p>We know of numerous financial aid "issues" that weren't disclosed. Its disgusting and fraudulent. But we said nothing while little miss perfect went off to Ivy League school. Very sad.</p>
<p>We just resign ourselves to knowing that cheaters eventually get caught...somehow and somewhere in life. Maybe not today, but maybe tomorrow. Because they will not change.....their lust for money, power, and prestige is so overwhelming they will do anything to achieve it and they are never content....always wanting more.</p>
<p>We know who they are and we have completely disassociated ourselves from these people.</p>
<p>My senior year of high school, the mother of another girl started telling anyone who would listen that all of her daughters accomplishments and grades were falsely attributed to me. She thought that our transcripts, GPA, ec's and everything got switched which would explain why I won awards and her daughter did not, why I was cum laude and her daughter was not, etc. She even went so far as to accuse the school of miscalculating student council elections, fixing theater and sports try-outs, and determining my entrance exam scores to AP classes.</p>
<p>We did apply to similar colleges, and I would not be surprised to learn that the girl or her mother sent nasty letters about me.</p>
<p>Unfortunately there are unbalanced people out there, remember this movie:Willing to Kill: The Texas Cheerleader Story (see IMDB for details) which is as crazy as the stuff mentioned here.</p>
<p>mom2three, I completely agree. I would think it would be very easy to find yourself on the expensive end of some very nastly civil litigation. In libel the burden of proof is on the person being accused of libel. If you write a letter, you could be obligated to defend that what you say is true in court. The person the letter is written about is under no obligation to prove it is false. </p>
<p>Writing anything untoward about a minor could be looked at in a particularly negative light by a judge. Damages involving lost opportunity, potential future earnings, and personal suffering could be steep. This seems like relatively untravelled legal territory. I sure wouldn't want to be one of the first adults to explore just how painful the costs could be.</p>
<p>yalemom1
[quote]
In my sons school, there was a kid who had stolen a final exam and copied it and posted it online for everyone to see. He was found out by two classmates and expelled from his private school, he started attending the local public school. His parents however continued to support the private school, as a silent exchange......their keeping quiet about his 10th grade "incident". The school he ended up applying early to was a friend of mines alma mater and a school where she already has 2 kids.....she took it upon herself to "enlighten" the admissions board of who was applying and what the history was and signed her name to it. She felt it was horrendous that the private school was willing to keep it under wraps, an incident which I think we would all agree reveals a serious character flaw and apparently this child has gotten in other troubles. At first I wasn't sure if she was doing the right thing but as she said SOMEONE has to have a moral radar and abide by it, otherwise everything will be corrupt and people will resign themselves to accepting it, and I thought about it and now agree with what she did.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>momreads
[quote]
As a teacher, I have known some fellow teachers who wanted to send letters to some college admissions people to let them know that a particular student cheated in their class. This was with the blessing of our administration.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I am confused as to why a student who cheated would not merely be subject to the schools sequence of punishment, whatever it is. Why the need to continue to punish someone who has already "done their time"? It sure seems mean-spirited to me. If the punishment extended to suspension or expulsion, then it would be noted on the student's record. Regarding the private school student who needed to go to another school, that in itself is a punishment. He was kicked out. </p>
<p>About the teachers who saw someone cheating in their classroom... They were under a moral obligation to address that student while he was under their care, according to the honor code of their institution. Unless they are asked for a recommendation by the student (who they failed to properly form when he was in their care), I cannot grasp why they would try to pursue the kid to the next level of his education.</p>
<p>Justice has already been meted out in the proper place and time according to the people in charge, and yet some in the community still want the offender to be cast out after he has already been punished. Isn't the whole idea of discipline to get a kid back on track? Why the desire to go beyond published discipline codes and pursue the kid as he tries to transition to the next stage of his life? I think it is an abuse of power.</p>
<p>I wonder if the adults who support writing such letters would like it if people in the community took it upon themselves to write letters about them to a future employer when they need a job.</p>
<p>When my son was in 6th grade and applying to a local public school of high academic standards with an admissions "lottery" we heard through the grapevine that he and the other 4 boys from the same grade school were reported in an anonymous letter to the school as trouble makers, smokers, etc. All of the boys ended up at the very bottom of the wait list for admissions, whereas the girls all made it in. We never raised the issue with the school or district as our son ended up in the highly capable program at another school and we didn't want to make waves before our daughter also had a chance to apply.</p>
<p>Turning in someone is something to do unless you are absolutely sure of wrongdoing and that the proof can be found. In raising our kids we had to often tell them that just "knowing" someone did something is not enough. </p>
<p>We have been fortunate that we have not had many rumors or incidents in our lives where the question has even arisen. I have had the experience of finding alot of smoke blown around when I had first hand experience with a son as an athletic recruit. All of those full scholarship stories and schools clamoring for the kids went right out the window as I learned the truth about the scene. Another example how the stories are often just stories. </p>
<p>On the other hand, if something definitely happens, you know about it and it is wrong, wrong, wrong, and the proof is there, there is an obligation to report it to the proper authorities. Unless there is Mafia involvement or such, I would use my own name and let the school college counselors handle the matter.</p>
<p>^Why is there "an obligation to report it to the proper authorities" (in the context of this thread, that would be the adcoms)? If a student was already punished by his school, why the need to get involved and highlight past transgressions to colleges he might want to apply to?</p>
<p>If you know there is widespread cheating during exams, you have an obligation to tell the teacher that this is happening if you actually know it happened. There may not be anything that could be done for the exams taken, but the teacher may be able to stop future transgressions. If for example, I saw a kid with the teacher's edition of the text and was sharing the test answers before the test, I would report that to the teacher who should be glad to be told. </p>
<p>For college apps, it is a whole different story. You do not know if the kid already admitted his transgressions, if the school admitted the transgressions, or if the transgressions needed to be reported to the college. So it it none of my business. Even if there are rumors. I don't know what is happening and have no proof of anything. If I saw a college aged sibling taking the SAT under the name of his high school sibling, I would say something on the spot. If I "heard" that it happened, it is not something I would report or investigate. Not my business. Hearsay. Fortunately, I don't "hear" very much of that stuff so I have not been tested in my beliefs. If I see a high school kid, drinking a beer on school grounds, I would address the issue. If I heard about it, I would not. So there are different situations as to when to report to the authorities. </p>
<p>College apps ask for specific incidents to be reported. They ask those questions of the gc, teachers who are recommending, and of the student. It is not my business as to whether or not all of those people are not reporting an incident, or if there is an incident that I have heard about that should be reported. UNLESS....it is truly something very, very serious, and I know the details personally. If a kid did some truly dastardly thing that is likely not to be addressed in the college app,and he is STILL up to no good in that area, I would say something to the GC at the school. But that is truly a remote possibility in my book. I have never come across such a situation and this is my third kid in college. Most of the time, it is simply not for me to tell. I don't know of the situation personally, and it is up to the school and kids to report the stuff.</p>
<p>My second son had an explanation sheet (s) on some activities of his in high school. Did not seem to hurt him in admissions. If anyone reported his disciplinary issues, they wasted their time, as he self reported. As did other kids I knew. And I know such kids who are currently in Princeton, Brown and Harvard among a number of other schools. Yes, I know they reported, because some of them HAD to do so under the GC's direction. But this is not info shared to the school community at large.</p>
<p>I am going to assume that this happens enough times that adcoms will not be investigating anonymous notes that are not specific. They may mention incidents that concern them to the GC of the school, and if they are told that there is nothing to merit the rumors, they are probably dropped. Otherwise, it would be one dirty hash slinging orgy at admissions.</p>
<p>momreads: I completely agree with you. Many students in my grade I'm sure are going to have a hard time getting good recs because of cheating or just because they were plain obnoxious in the classroom. I just wish teachers were more diligent about making sure students aren't cheating.</p>
<p>The process is skewed because teachers have the obligation to turn down the request for recs if they cannot give good ones. The GC has it in his interest to get kids into colleges and being too exacting can lead to problems in that department.</p>
<p>Wow, I've never heard of that happening to a prospective college student. However, I'm no stranger to anonymous letters....at the end of my junior year, an anonymous letter was sent to the school about my "weekend activities" which were hugely exaggerated, claiming that I had "weekly drug and drinking parties at my house." So off-base. But yeah, I wouldn't put it past people. At all.</p>
<p>People actually do this? Wow glad my kids are in...I guess I can somewhat understand if there was academic fraud, but little else seems to warrant the action mucgh less really help anyone applying. To the contrary I think admissions officers would be affraid of the parent who sent in the letter. If the applications are going to a selective school then there are likely few applicants so the admissions staff might gues who sent it- and that alone should be a warning that its not a good idea.</p>