<p>As an outside observer, I believe that you should give interesteddad a break. Some people get really stressed, other people don't (and listen to the Arctic Monkeys, a fine band by the way). It depends on the person. Let's all follow the principles of our fine school and cultivate each other's inner light instead of promoting this negative vibe-fest.</p>
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And by the way interesteddad, around 50% of Swatties go to psych services at least once during their time at Swat.
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</p>
<p>BTW #3. That is factually incorrect. Accurate information is available in the Psych Services Annual Report link posted previously. The number was 36% for the Class of '05.</p>
<p>"As an outside observer, I believe that you should give interesteddad a break. Some people get really stressed, other people don't (and listen to the Arctic Monkeys, a fine band by the way). It depends on the person. Let's all follow the principles of our fine school and cultivate each other's inner light instead of promoting this negative vibe-fest."</p>
<p>I have to really laugh, because my son, a freshman home from Swarthmore was automatically signed on to my CC account and wrote the above. Guess interesteddad has another student supporter! It does sound more like an 18 year-old's post, as I don't even know the Arctic Monkeys, but guess they are a good band. I think at 2:45 am he was too tired to create his own account. Very funny.</p>
<p>Thank you to the Swat juniors and seniors and recent alums for your honesty and sharing your FIRST-HAND experiences. The info is more useful and more interesting to prospective students than the rosy PR stuff that gets ladled out here. It is sad that anyone who posts anything even remotely critical about Swarthmore here is automatically attacked and discredited by the regulars here. What some don't get, is that your devotion to the school despite its challenges and shortcomings, is more a testimonial for the place than all the numbers and statistics rattled off here.</p>
<p>kelleymegreener: I meant to wish you the best at Yale, I certainly hope you have an enjoyable experience. I am sure that your brother, parents and grandparents are so proud that you will be attending their alma mater. </p>
<p>It is good to see you developing such a positive attitude, I guess knowing that you are going to Yale has been uplifting for you. Please keep in touch on the CC board, and let us know how you fare next year in Fall 2006.</p>
<p>collegeapplier (or anyone else, really), could you elaborate on the "no leeway for personal differences" part of your post? that's definitely not something i've heard about swarthmore before. also, kind of off-topic, could you share what you know about the difficulties of being a biology major? i've heard the natural sciences at swat are particularly intense in terms of workload, etc. thanks!</p>
<p>Just a note, because I wouldn't want future Swarthmore students, or anyone for that matter, to get the wrong idea. Visiting counseling services is a GOOD thing, not a bad. Sometimes just a cool, uninvolved head to talk to, and to think with, can make a big difference in your health and happiness, and allows you to put things in perspective. Colleges make these services available to you because they are GOOD for you, and they are not there to be avoided. YOU PAID FOR THEM. There should be no stigma about using them (and that especially goes for you, guys! our lone-ranger ways of being sometimes get in the way of getting the help we need, and which is freely available to us.)</p>
<p>So if you've ever thought you might have a need, chances are you do...so check'em out.</p>
<p>Exactly.</p>
<p>One of the things that I really like about small liberal arts colleges is that they make these kinds of support services readily available to the students.</p>
<p>I would be more concerned about a college environment where a very small percentage of students avail themselves of the resources. That would not mean that the students don't have the same issues, but rather that the services are not accessible in the same way.</p>
<p>i guess there are two main things that i want to get across. first, "interesteddad" doesn't seem to understand what "swatstudent08" and i are saying about our respective experiences. i can't speak for "swatstudent08", but what i was trying to express is that "swarthmore was an incredible experience, but there are certain negative aspects to the school, things about which you shouldn't remain willfully ignorant." the argument that "no incoming freshman knows exactly what swarthmore will be like" is absolutely no justification for painting a monochromatic picture of swarthmore. as an addendum to that, interesteddad makes the claim that:</p>
<p>"Actually, my guess is that College Confidential bunch probably fares a little better than average statistically, mostly because they have overnighted at least once so far and will do so again for Ride the Tide"</p>
<p>this sounds good, but i don't think it's particularly true. my freshman year at swarthmore, my girlfriend was a year younger and still in high school. she wound up spending upwards of ten full weekends at swarthmore, and coming from probably the best public high school in the country, she was about as well-prepared for swarthmore as anyone could've possibly been. i don't think that this made her have an easier time of swarthmore at all - what it did for her, and what was important was that SHE KNEW EXACTLY WHAT SHE WAS GETTING INTO. she knew that parts would be extremely difficult, she knew that parts would be really great. what i'm suggesting is that parents like "interesteddad" aren't telling the whole truth about what swarthmore isn't like, because they don't know, and it would be nice if they would realize that there are, in fact, limits to their knowledge of the swarthmore experience. </p>
<p>and i think it's a little on the ludicrous side for parents to think that they can challenge any student's take on what swarthmore's actually like. the bad first: have you ever written a sophomore paper, locked yourself in mccabe, run from mccabe to beardsley at 1:12 to print out seminar papers you haven't had time to read because you were in class all morning, taken comps, taken honors exams? or have you taken intro political theory with ken sharpe, seen bands play at olde club (swarthmore has a better selection of bands come through than any other college, hands down), gone to tom jones at 3am for a blue ribbon special, had a rose pinned to your gown before graduation? if not, then there's no way for you to know what swarthmore is really like, and please stop pretending.</p>
<p>last, i'd like to point out to "collegialmom" that i never suggested that "interesteddad"'s daughter's identity be revealed - there's no way i would've ever met her (graduated '04, and can't say i hung out with very many specs my senior year) and, frankly, i wouldn't really care even were there a possibility i knew her.</p>
<p>Nancy:</p>
<p>I still have no idea what point you are trying to make. It sounds like you feel that every spec should be confronted by someone telling them how hard Swarthmore is. Be my guest.</p>
<p>Here's my theory on that: Anyone smart enough to get into Swarthmore is probably smart enough to have picked up on the fact that it is an academically challenging school I mean...it's printed on the t-shirts, right? How hard is that to figure out?</p>
<p>As to your other questions. Of course, I have turned in a college paper without reading it because I was too busy. Of course, I've had to go to class after being out late seeing a band (sometimes after driving six hours home). It's college, right? Those are experiences shared by just about every college student since the beginning of time.</p>
<p>The "jolt" site that you referred us parents to had posters asking who his daughter is, and then even made an obscene comment about her, even though they had no idea who she is. I did not know who the poster was, I am sorry if it was not you but was one of your colleagues instead. I think the tone of the postings about interesteddad was overall inappropriate, as that level of personally-directed malicious humor is not full of the good "vibes" that it seems you may be striving for in your life (or maybe not). I suggest you start a new thread with positive and negative, honest comments about your college life and how you have been affected by it.</p>
<p>"interesteddad" - "run from mccabe to beardsley at 1:12 to print out seminar papers you haven't had time to read because you were in class all morning." in case you weren't aware, students preparing for honors generally take classes within their major in seminar format their last two years. these classes are strictly capped at 10 students, and while the exact formats vary widely, one common approach is to have students write papers on a week's topic and circulate them to the entire class the night (or morning) before. these papers are used to stimulate and lead discussion. so when i talk about running to beardsley to print out papers that you haven't read yet, i'm talking about papers written by fellow students. but you wouldn't know about that process, because you don't go to swarthmore, and your daughter wouldn't have told you about her experiences with this, because she's a sophomore.</p>
<p>the point i'm trying to make is this: "you don't know what you're talking about, and you're presenting a warped view of swarthmore. please realize this and modify your behavior accordingly." saying that "anyone smart enough to get into Swarthmore is probably smart enough to have picked up on the fact that it is an academically challenging school" is completely inane - well then they're probably also smart enough to read all of the crap you've been saying in a guide book or see it in the "meaning of swarthmore" dvd, so by your own argument, everything you say is useless. </p>
<p>i'm sorry if i'm more than a little exasperated, but i really can't believe that you're completely unwilling to admit that you, someone who never went to swarthmore, someone who has a daughter who has completed three semesters, don't know everything there is to know about swarthmore. one great thing that swarthmore taught me is that there are limits to my knowledge. i'm not going to tell you all about 19th century british poetry, because i know nothing about it. i WILL, however, tell you that swarthmore isn't the place that you think it is, because i know this, because it's had a profound impact on my life, because i've lived it. sadly, somewhere in between your six hour drives home from concerts and being too busy to read a paper before turning it in you neglected to learn this lesson. this, "interesteddad", is a pity.</p>
<p>So, other than chewing me out, what exactly is your point? Is it that you would be more comfortable if nobody answered questions about Swarthmore here? It almost seems as if you don't want prospective students to learn about the many unique and attractive qualities of the school.</p>
<p>Or, if I answer questions, that I say, "it's really hard, especially if you do honors, so you probably don't want to go to Swarthmore?" You can always find a disclaimer. For example, I think that you should add that honors is strictly voluntary and two-thirds of Swarthmore students don't chose the honors track...just so that specs have the complete story.</p>
<p>I've got a better idea! Why don't you stick around and answer questions for specs and then your valuable viewpoints can also be considered?</p>
<p>Here's what I don't understand. You say that you wouldn't trade your Swarthmore experience for anything -- which is very strong praise, indeed. Yet, I have a hunch that you didn't know the details of every honor seminar when you applied as a 17 year old high school student. That stuff is so insignficant compared to the big picture culture of the place. I mean, at the end of the day, does it really matter other than the fact that a high school senior probably shouldn't consider Swarthmore unless they plan to take their academics seriously in college? What is the "warped view" of Swarthmore that I present?</p>
<p>I would just like to point out that, as far as I can tell, there are two sides to this debate. On one side you have upperclassmen and alumni; on the other hand you have parents, pass/fail freshman and a couple of admitted students. I find the idea that you have parents trying to convince students that other parents have a better perspective than they do pretty ludicrous. In addition, I dont think that anyone is questioning the fact that parents like Interesteddad can provide good advice on the admissions process. That said ID is not omniscient figure, nor is he King Midas, and I am occasionally baffled by his somewhat reckless confidence in his own knowledge and abilities. This is not meant as a personal attack, but I would feel a lot more comfortable endorsing ID if he didnt come across as quote so defensive and full of himself. </p>
<p>As a side note I would like to say something about kellymegreener. Ive reviewed some of her posts and, in my opinion, she seems very sharp and willing to ask tough questions, as well as do plenty of her own in depth research and fact checking. She seems to be someone who likes to cut through the BS and appreciates honesty and forthrightness, though Ill admit her posts on her legacy came across as somewhat pretentious. As a Swarthmore student I would have been more than happy for her to have come here, but I hope she finds success at Yale. I find it some what shocking, and more than a little distressing that she has shown more maturity than many of the parents of kids her age who frequent this forum. It could be that I am misreading some of the posts I have thought to be sarcastic, or that I have missed some glaring affronts on her part, and if that is the case I would appreciate you directing them to my attention, but until then I think its time some of you grew up a little.</p>
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if that is the case I would appreciate you directing them to my attention
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<p>Do a search on the dozens of times that the legacy Yalie posted links to the Phoenix article on chalking, as if Swarthmore is the only campus in the US with queer chalkings. The legacy Yalie continued in this vein even after being refered to article after article about the same chalkings at colleges around the country dating back a decade or more. I dare say that...gasp....similar chalkings have been known to appear on the sidewalks of New Haven from time to time.</p>
<p>Be that as it may, anyone as evidently distressed by sidewalk chalkings as our legacy friend probably wouldn't be happy at Swarthmore; hence the recommendations not to apply. Wouldn't want him or her to have an aneurism at the Sagar dance.</p>
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there are two sides to this debate
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</p>
<p>I must be really dense, but I'm still trying to figure out what you and Nancy_Reagan are debating?</p>
<p>The only concrete thing I've been able to pin down is that you think I should be more forceful in telling specs that they'll be stressed out when they have a lot of work due. Welcome to college.</p>
<p>you're amazing, interesteddad - my point is to try to make you realize that while plenty of things you say on this forum to prospective students are helpful, you're missing some key elements of the swarthmore experience. how many more times do you want me to say it? saying things like "I don't believe "burn-out" or "apathy" are common at Swarthmore" or "As for endowment, the average Swattie has never stopped to think about it" are just plain false - some form of eventual burn-out is UNIVERSAL and there's tons of discussion of the endowment. students are concerned about the size of the endowment because it matters for the rankings (which, i think rankings are kind of useless, but it's a good way of spreading swarthmore's good name - we don't have the name recognition of amherst or williams, and this matters when it comes to looking for a job) and because a skyrocketing endowment is probably going to keep tuition increases down. these are real concerns for lots of students. </p>
<p>if i had infinite time then maybe i'd answer tons of questions on this forum, but i'm pretty busy. i'm never going to have your 3100+ posts, interesteddad, so the best thing i think i could do is try to educate you a little bit, so that you might temper your unbridled enthusiasm for swarthmore and give a more balanced and accurate description of the school to potential students.</p>
<p>by the way, i did a search for kellymegreener's posts and read the chalking discussions. i never took issue with the chalkings, mostly because i have the kind of warped sense of humor that thinks one stick figure sodomizing another is hilarious, but i can definitely see how someone might be offended by them. if i recall correctly, one year someone drew hitler buggering jesus - can't say as i'd blame a christian student for being offended by this. what's amazing to me is how bitter all of your posts denigrating "kellymegreener" sound. so s/he's a legacy at yale, and swarthmore isn't the best place for him/her? big deal - i don't take it as a personal slight the way you seem to, interesteddad, and i'm actually a member of the swarthmore community.</p>
<p>i'd also like to point out that it's spelled "sager", as in "richard sager '73".</p>
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so that you might temper your unbridled enthusiasm for swarthmore and give a more balanced and accurate description of the school to potential students
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<p>I keep asking, but I'm not getting an answer. What have I written that is not accurate?</p>
<p>You've come up with three things: That I don't think "burn-out" is any more of an issue at Swarthmore than at any other academically-challenging college. That I don't think the average college student pays any attention to endowment size. And, that I misspelled a name. Where's the beef?</p>
<p>On the first issue: of course, every college student is going to get sick of college at some point...the same exams, the same classrooms, the same food, the same people. It's universal. In fact, I've written quite a bit that claustrophia is one of the two major downsides of any small liberal arts college. My recommendation has been consistent: it's a four-year marathon, so take advantage of every opportunity to get your butt off campus and into the real world, whether it is dinner in Phila, a weekend in NYC, study abroad, or whatever. Those things will pay huge cumulative dividends at the end of four years and Swarthmore students are very fortunate to have ready access to the real world outside the bubble. In my opinion, that access is one of Swarthmore's strongest features relative to most high-end liberal arts colleges. If you want burn-out, try four years in Williamstown.</p>
<p>As for endowments, I doubt there are ten students at Swarthmore who know the per student endowment or where that stands in relation to other schools. That's not a knock; it's just not something that's really on the radar screen, even though it drives just about every aspect of the product Swarthmore delivers to its students. That's OK. It's quite possible to appreciate the way Swarthmore is without understanding the financial underpinnings that allow Swarthmore to be what it is. Anyone who has ever walked around the campus has intuitively sensed the large endowment.</p>
<p>BTW, there is no "endowment" component in any of the popular ranking publications.</p>
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but i can definitely see how someone might be offended by them
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<p>The issue is not whether students would be offended by the chalkings. Some Swatties are offended, based on the number of Phoenix op-ed pieces over the years -- or perhaps more accurately, some Swatties just think the chalkings are stupid.</p>
<p>The issue is whether the same drawings would be more "offensive" at one campus than another. A related issue is the degree to which a college administration seeks to curtail free speech, even when it is offensive.</p>
<p>On further review I must agree that the continued spamming of that link to the Chalking pics. in the Phoenix is pretty annoying and I can't figure out the motivation or purpose, unless it just became an attempt to wind people up. I also cant tell if KMG (excuse the abbreviation) was seriously considering Swarthmore as her second choice. Chalking is ubiquitous on College Campuses, and so are attempts to shock people, as has been previously stated. Generally speaking I, and most of the campus ignore the chalkings completely, or are mildly amused or mildly perturbed by them. In my time at Swat there has been one chalking which I and many others found pretty offensive, but other than that indifference reigns supreme. My favorite writing on the topic is in Tom Wolfes I am Charlotte Simmons where, at Wolfes fictional Dupont University, the college comes under fire from gay student groups after the grounds staff erases all the chalkings that had been put down in anticipation of the coming out week, as they were so extreme and explicit they were misinterpreted as being anti-gay. This year the best thing about Coming out weeks chalkings were the chalkings the following week during the SCCS week, when many of the slogans used in SQUs chalkings were parodied. </p>
<p>I also must say that I really don't consider Swat to be a "saftey" school for very many people, though indeed it may not be the first choice, or as difficult to get into as the Ivies. I also would like to point out that in pretty much every poll Ive seen its been ranked in the top three liberal arts colleges. One of the studies that helped convince me to pick Swat was a study of best feeder schools for the top Graduate programs. The study was in either the Wall Street Journal or NYT and was based on per capita admittance into a selection of the top five Grad schools for law, business and medicine. The top ten schools on the list were the seven Ivies and Williams, Amherst and Swarthmore. Swarthmore was ranked ten. Im not attempting to say that Swarthmore is best of all possible schools, and in that study Yale beat Swat, but I am going to stick up for Swat and say that its still a top notch institution, and I believe somewhat more respected than some of the Schools its been compared with, though I will say that I am not exactly objective in the matter, and I hope I dont come across as overly defensive, I just feel that in light of my previous support for KMG I felt that I should also voice some of my disagreements. Ultimately I still appreciate some of the skepticism that KMG brought to the forums, but at times s/he sounded a little bit like a broken record.</p>