parents

<p>To Nancy: I was hoping you could answer the following questions, and Swatstudent08 where relevant:</p>

<ol>
<li><p>What are/were the most positive aspects of Swathmore for you when you attended there (academic and/or social)?</p></li>
<li><p>What are/were the most negative (academic and/or social)?</p></li>
<li><p>What made you decide to do the Honors Program? Was it overall a good experience?</p></li>
<li><p>What was your major? Did it have relevance to what you did after Swarthmore, and did it prepare you for your subsequent life and/or academic experiences?</p></li>
<li><p>This is a serious question, not facetious: When your girfriend was there for the 10 weekends when you were a 1st year student, how did you work this out with your roommate. I know this is a difficult topic at times, and it would be helpful to others to know if there was "magic" solution.</p></li>
<li><p>Looking back, would you have picked Swarthmore again, or are there other colleges/universities you regret not attending.</p></li>
<li><p>Did you ever consider transferring?</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Thank you. Any input from any other Swarthmore students, past or present, would I'm sure be helpful to others.</p>

<p>I’m only a sophomore, but I’ll attempt to answer your questions based on my experiences so far.</p>

<p>1) I would say that my best experience academically so far has been taking a first year seminar class. Socially it would be hard for me to describe any single experience which I feel has defined my life at Swat.</p>

<p>2) In terms of negative aspects, I have to say that academically life here is hard and brutal, and it’s very easy to slip up and see a whole semesters worth of hard work go up in smoke. A semester at Swat is not a sprint, it’s a marathon, and the last couple of weeks are hell on earth. </p>

<p>3) I don’t intend at this point in time to do honors</p>

<p>4) I haven’t declared a major yet, nor have I made a decision. At the moment I want to something involving history and/or poli. sci. I’ve always preferred history as a subject, but I feel the poli. sci. department here is a better fit for me, so I have something of a dilemma ahead of me.</p>

<p>5) Obviously not a question addressed to me.</p>

<p>6) A good question. At the time I was applying for colleges I chose Swarthmore over an entirely different school as my first choice. If I had gotten rejected at Swat I would have gone to the other school, where I was accepted into their Honors Program. Swat and the other school are night and day different, and the other school is much more famous and is academically solid (top 20 Universities), but not as difficult or academically prestigious as Swat. Sometimes I wonder if I made the right choice, but I always conclude that I did, and that Swat is a better fit form me in terms of its size and environment, as well as better for my future. I know I could probably coast to a 3.5+ GPA at a lot of other schools, while I’m struggling to do well at Swat, but I take pride in knowing that I’m pushing myself. The freedom that I experience as a Swat student is another huge benefit, and one I try not to take for granted. In hindsight the fact that I got into Swat makes me wonder where else I might have gotten in had I applied, but I feel admissions wise Swat was probably my best shot at a top tier school, as well as being the best fit for me personally.</p>

<p>7) Certainly not seriously, but I’m not going to say it’s something that I’ve ruled out as a possibility should I become seriously unhappy or a complete failure at Swarthmore. I would hate to leave my friends as well as hate “giving” up on Swat, as well as the fact I can’t really think of anyplace that would be a better fit for me.</p>

<p>Nancy and Swatstudent, </p>

<p>I second the list of questions from collegialmom. It's helpful for a student to get the widest range of opinions and then make their own judgment about what is most relevant to their own situation.</p>

<p>My son is familar with another school--the University of Chicago--where he took credit classes last summer. The workload was no picnic, but he definitely enjoyed it. Swarthmore and Chicago are among the schools most mentioned when anyone talks about "challenging", "heavy workload", "bright students", or "tough on grades". Since our son is much more familiar with Chicago than Swarthmore (but is very interested in both colleges), I'm wondering if either of you (or anyone else) would venture a guess on how these schools compare in terms of "difficulty". (There is a comparison thread on the forum, but I'd be interested in your personal perceptions.)</p>

<p>I would also add one more question to collegialmom's list: Given the fact that you feel Swarthmore is definitely not for everyone (even those who did very well in h.s), what type of student do you feel would thrive and be happy there?</p>

<p>I can't believe I am getting into this, but... here I go. First, I have been lurking about for a while, reading this and that. I always interpreted ID's comments as those coming from a parent of a sophomore. He has presented some very useful information and given his opinions on other matters. Maybe high school students are not as "sophisticated" as I am in evaluating the limitations of the source, but I suspect quite a few are sophisticated enough. Given that, I am not sure why NR is as upset as she/he appears to be about ID's comments. Second, I thought KMG's comments to be a bit suspect. There was a certain edginess to them. Also, I never could understand why she/he was making the comments in the first place. Didn't she/he want to go to Yale? What was the interest in Swarthmore all about? Maybe she/he was considering Swarthmore also, but the comments seemed intended to provoke, not to seek information and opinions. Suspicious. Third, I agree with collegialmom (did I get the name right?) that comments from Swarthmore students would be a great addition to this forum. I wish that NR would share more about her/his experience with everyone. Of course, we would be getting just one perspective. More perspectives would be even better.</p>

<p>Let me share something with NR and others. When we visited UChicago with my son, we got the perspective of several students. One in particular, from the metro Atlanta area, led my son to be very excited about UChicago. A few weeks later at a dinner with extended family, we got the perspective of two recent graduates, one a cousin. After that dinner, we came away with some concerns. My son further explored UChicago because of these conflicting perspectives and decided finally that he would not apply there after all. He was able to make that decision because each of these students gave him details about their experiences. These details led him to make a better (although not necessarily correct) judgment about how well UChicago would suit him. That is what is needed from commentors. Detail.</p>

<p>Hope this post is useful.</p>

<p>Cami215, I can't really answer either of your questions unfortunately. I applied to Chicago, but withdrew my app. after getting into Swat. Even if I had been rejected by Swat I probably would not have gone to Chicago. I'm not attempting to bad mouth the school, but I just felt there were better fits for me elsewhere. I don't feel I can compare Swarthmore to Chicago because I really don't know that much about the school. I applied there, but based on my experiences at Swat the admissions process really doesn't allow you to get a real understanding of what the life at schools is really like. If I had some friends who went there I might be able to get a better understanding of the school, but unfortunately I don't.</p>

<p>As for the second question, I have to say I really don't know. I see all sorts of kids happy there, and I see all sorts of kids unhappy. Sometimes the ones I would expect to thrive there don't and vice versa. I have to say that generally speaking allot of the stereotypes are true, but on the other hand I can give you a laundry list of kids who excel at Swat and break pretty much all of them.</p>

<p>All in all a pretty useless post, but I didn't want to ignore you.</p>

<p>Atlantamom and others, I don't really spend that much time on the forums here, unless a specific issue is of particular interest to me, so I'm not going to make a promise to answer every question put forward, and many I may not even be aware of. I also am not going to spend much time here trying to sell the school or recruit. However feel free to send me a private message anytime you have a question or wish me to respond to something on the forums I may have missed. Also in general, I find it much easier to try and answer specific, focused questions, like the 7 point one above.</p>

<p>atlantamom -</p>

<p>Congratulations on your son's ED acceptance at Swarthmore! And it's great to have more voices in this conversation.</p>

<p>If there's one thing I've learned in this process, it's that everyone has a different opinion about a given school. Interesteddad has been very helpful to us; he has an enormous amount of knowledge. Hearing from a range of current students would be helpful too. </p>

<p>Son's own experience at Chicago was very positive, and he knows a senior who absolutely loves it. I think you can find a range of students with both positive and negative opinions. However, he was *very * glad to apply and be accepted EA at Chicago, since he's not ready to make an absolute commitment yet. He wants to consider Swarthmore and several other schools (including some with more merit options). </p>

<p>I always try to keep my ears open for both positive and negative assessments. It seems as if the schools that are reputed to be the "toughest" tend to garner extreme opinions ....either students love or hate them. What's harder for me to judge is how much that is the "reality" of the school, and how much is simply perception.</p>

<p>I'll just mention this example. One of son's close friends from last year is now at Princeton. He's extremely well qualified and motivated. Recently, my son talked to him in great detail about his experience at Princeton, his daily life, activities, classes etc. There are many things this young man loves about Princeton, but his workload and daily schedule sound definitely challenging, and now the school is cracking down on grades. At the end of the conversation, my son walked away scratching his head. </p>

<p>When we talked later, son made what I thought was a perceptive comment/observation: that the description of Princeton, its challenges and courseload, was really not too different than what he'd heard about Chicago and Swarthmore, which are always mentioned in every guide as having such a "killer load". Is there really that great a difference in terms of difficulty between these "elite" schools, or is this something that's foisted on us by guidebooks and how a school portrays itself to the public? I'm sure some differences are very real, yet I'm not so convinced these are as black and white as many guides portray.</p>

<p>Cami:</p>

<p>I'm a real disadvantage on questions of workloads and grades because the school is small and I don't feel right posting about my daughter or her friends.</p>

<p>But, as a general observation: I believe the differences in workload between various students at Swarthmore (or any other school) are probably greater than the overall differences between top schools.</p>

<p>You can certainly put together a schedule of courses that will break your back at Swarthmore (or any other school). Take five instead of the standard four courses each semester. Forget to include at least one larger lecture course to balance the need to be thoroughly prepared for each seminar session. Forget to include one non-reading course if most of your courses have heavy reading loads. Forget to make an effort to get ahead over breaks -- like read some of the novels for a lit class over the month long winter break. Take multiple lab courses. Don't take the intro college writing course, even if your high school wasn't top-shelf in academic writing instruction. Forget to ask around and find out which professors are killer.</p>

<p>I suspect that some of the "smartest" students at Swarthmore probably end up struggling the most because they aren't smart enough to not bite off more than they can chew in terms of course selection and ECs.</p>

<p>Swatstudent08, I certainly can appreciate that you can't spend a lot of time on these forums. And, certainly specific questions are the easiest ones to answer with useful information. I really wanted to point out that I think NR is reacting too strongly to ID and that the more perspectives the better. I have appreciated ID's information and opinions. He has been and continues to be helpful. </p>

<p>Cami215, I just sent you a pm. And thanks for the congratulations. My son is very happy and looking forward to next year. Congratulations to your son also. UChicago is a wonderful school! I agree that there are many similarities between UChicago and Swarthmore. </p>

<p>Until I am parent of a college student, I won't be able to comment on workload. As a high school student parent, I can agree with the comments by both Cami215 and ID about workload. I hope that the workload of all top schools is heavy. Should be. How to manage that workload is an important skill that students should acquire. I like how ID described some of the options a student might have to manage the workload. Choice of courses is an important consideration.</p>

<p>"collegialmom" - </p>

<ol>
<li><p>the people make the place. the people i met at swarthmore are, collectively, by far the most intelligent and interesting people i've met in my life. the professors, also are outstanding, and really care about how you're doing (this isn't universal, and there do exist a handful of bad professors. or, at least, ones i didn't get along with.) academically speaking, swarthmore breaks you before putting you back together - i've alluded to this in my previous posts, and while it's not particularly pleasant to go through at the time, the outcome is certainly worth it. </p></li>
<li><p>the most negative experience at swarthmore was getting screwed in the housing lottery and being forced to live in mary lyons basement (pre-renovation) my sophomore year. this i blame on the administration, since they've been pretty sneaky about increasing enrollment. interesteddad can spit statistics at me telling me that i'm wrong, but the housing situation got worse every year, with spillover into strath haven my junior year and many juniors being forced to take doubles my senior year. the administration isn't exactly as clean as they'd like to think they are (though i agreed with the eventual decision, i have to admit that the football cut was also a bit underhanded.)</p></li>
</ol>

<p>3/4. i actually didn't do the honors program. i majored in philosophy, which allowed me to take four honors seminars (it's a less popular major than, say, political science, where you're out of luck if you want to take the more popular seminars and aren't honors. a lot of students actually declare honors and then drop it at the last possible moment just so they can get the classes that they want). i took the seminars, and took two oral exams with professors in the department (which were less confrontational than they would have been with external examiners). why didn't i do honors? just didn't feel like it, honestly. i'm a little tired of my song and dance where i proclaim how philosophy is a great major that, more than anything, teaches you how to think, and how it's a wonderful preparation for just about anything. does it have any direct application to what i'm doing now? no. will it ever have any direct application to what i'm doing, unless it's being a philosophy professor? probably not. but, like i said, i think it was a great major, the department is outstanding, and i'm glad to have done it.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>the answer to your serious question also happens to be none of your business - i don't really feel like commenting on exactly how i did or did not manage to have sex with my girlfriend in spite of having a roommate. also, you're either asking because you want to provide tips to your son/daughter on how to get around having a roommate (which is creepy) or you're hoping that it's difficult and you need reassurance. college kids, even at swarthmore, even those in SWIL (particularly those in SWIL, actually) are going to have sex. no matter what, your son/daughter is going to find a way - swarthmore students are outstanding at creative and intelligent solutions to complex problems like this. (re-reading this, i don't mean this to sound as harsh as it does.)</p></li>
<li><p>for a long time, swarthmore and chicago were 1 and 1a on my list. i wound up getting into chicago, being waitlisted at swarthmore (as was somewhere around 30% of the class of 2004, actually - three of us in my freshman quad got in off the waiting list), and accepting at nyu. had i not gotten into swarthmore, and gone to nyu instead of chicago, i think that would've been a mistake. going to swarthmore was far from a mistake, and i'd do it again in a heartbeat.</p></li>
<li><p>the thought of transferring never even crossed my mind. even when it was a living hell (five and a half credits junior fall) i knew it was the best place for me. </p></li>
</ol>

<p>interesteddad - you can doubt all you want that ten students at swarthmore know the per student endowment, but the fact is that "it's just not something that's really on the radar screen" is patently false. sure, there's no strictly "endowment" portion of college rankings, but i think it certainly counts in the "financial resources rank" (what's the endowment if not a financial resource?) - a healthy endowment also means that you can add that islamic studies department, or the visiting professor of german, driving down the % of classes with 50 or more and driving up the % of classes under 20, and increasing the faculty resources rank. also, like i said, a healthy endowment probably means that tuition increases will be kept to a minimum. i got pretty significant need-based financial aid, and as the endowment suffered, my aid went down (and my parents didn't make more money - my dad was essentially out of work the my sophomore year, meaning that my aid should've gone up, if anything, for my junior year. instead, it was slashed from around 1/2 tuition to a few thousand dollars). so you're just wrong about that - among students, it was an infrequent but not insignificant or ignored subject of conversation.</p>

<p>i'll agree that on the face of it, "sagar" isn't that big a deal, but for someone who goes around spouting "most paces parties go from 10pm to 2am, and are proceeded by a movie" and "be sure to go early to get a seat to 'the graduate' the sunday before classes start in the fall!" like you're mr. swarthmore, consistently spelling "sager" incorrectly is kind of indicative of the fact that you don't really know what's going on.</p>

<p>i'm also terribly sorry that these three things are all i've come up with so far as to why you have a warped view of swarthmore. if you really want me to, i can go through your posts with a fine-toothed comb and come up with more gross distortions and outright untruths. i would like to continue to point out, however, that your mischaracterization that "i don't think burn-out or apathy are common at swarthmore" is a distortion of one of the most fundamental truths about swarthmore. i've said it before and i'll say it again: burnout is universal. the real truth is to tell specs that, "at some point you will hate swarthmore with every fiber of their being. that said, it's still a pretty great place most of the time." </p>

<p>i'll let you in on a little secret, too: my freshman year, i visited my girlfriend in new york pretty frequently. after that, i made one weekend trip to new york (again to visit her when she took the spring 04 semester off to go abroad, but hadn't left for her program yet). one thing that swarthmore touts pretty heavily are the mythical vans to philly. when i got there, they didn't exist, because the previous year they had been so sporadically used that they cancelled the service. by my junior year, i think, they started it up again, only no one used it that time either and they cancelled it again. philadelphia may be 25 minutes from campus by train, but students don't go in nearly as frequently as they could (or, arguably, should). this is due to academic pressure (no matter what, you always have work you should be doing - "swarthmore: guilt without sex") and to the fact that septa shuts down relatively early (11pm on weekends, unless it has changed). regardless, i probably got off campus more than your average student, since i had lots of friends with cars, and i still didn't even leave that frequently. i guess the "swarthmore bubble" should get chalked up as another one of the negative things about swarthmore. this kind of complacency also rears its head with these two phenomena: there's a dramatic dropoff in relationships starting after late september, because by that point people are so busy. also, the relationships that do get formed tend to last a long time, since people are frequently too busy and too absorbed in their own thing to break up with each other. it sounds weird, but it's true - much like most things about swarthmore that interesteddad doesn't seem to understand.</p>

<p>Thanks Nancy: I hope that more Swarthmore students will also give such thoughtful answers as you and swatstudent08 have, as it is very helpful for prospective students to hear all of these insights from you. My reason behind asking the girlfriend/roommate question has nothing to do with personal motives, it was because I know that this can be a big issue with roommates. Since you have such well-thought out answers, I thought maybe you could give global suggestions to this privacy dilemma, not details. I am very sorry for the perceived intrusion into your privacy, I really did not mean it for myself in any way.</p>

<p>Anyhow, thanks again. It was especially interesting to hear about the philosophy major. I did an impractical major back in college for 4 years and then had to do 2 additional years to totally backtrack and do requirements for what has turned out to be a great profession. The first 4 years, however, I wouldn't have traded for anything.</p>

<p>Apathy is pretty big at Swat. The vast majority of students really don’t care about things like a living wage or chalkings or a myriad of other issues that vocal minorities bring to peoples attentions. They just really, genuinely do not care. Personally this apathy doesn’t really bother me, and indeed it is in many ways a relief. One of the nicer things about Swat is that, despite what I might have expected, people don’t really get in your face about issues and are more concerned with their own lives to try and interfere with yours. Those people who do get riled up or raise issues in matters which people find obnoxious are usually met with disdain. As for the Swat bubble, I really don’t see it as much of a drawback at all. Occasionally I really need to get of campus and want to go buy something or see a movie, and it’s always nice to go out and eat with your friends. On the whole however I like the insular nature of the community and the fact that all the resources and people are usually pretty close at hand and easy to track down. At the end of the day though the feeling that the Swat bubble most ein me is apathy.</p>

<p>I just have a couple of comments:</p>

<p>a) I find it odd that you complain bitterly about the workload at Swarthmore and then sign up for a 5.5 course schedule junior year instead of the standard 4 courses. There is nothing that would force a student to do that. Most Swatties go into college with an extra credit or two from APs in their hip pockets.</p>

<p>b) Since you hold me to a very high standard on telling the "complete" story, we should probably point out that you used up your 3rd cohort housing lottery for your lousy room sophmore year and, therefore, were guaranteed to have lottery numbers in the first third and second third of your class for your final two years at Swarthmore. We also should point out that, since you graduated, Swarthmore has finished construction on a new dorm and currently has empty beds. It would probably also be useful to point out that Myrt stopped the sophmore lottery this year before anyone was forced to pick a Mary Lyon basement room. She asked if anyone wanted those rooms (they did) and allowed the remaining lottery numbers to go on a waiting list which ultimately resulted in very good room assignments to those who were able to go with the flow. My daughter and her roommate were on the waitlist and was eventually were offered a choice of two different combinations of singles or the double they would have chosen had they gotten a top cohort lottery number. Grousing about dorm assignments is a college tradition, but Swarthmore's housing system is the fairest it could possibly be. I think that in interest of completeness, we should also point out that Swarthmore guarantees housing for four years. That is not true of all elite colleges and universities.</p>

<p>As for being "sneaky" about enrollment, nothing could be further from the truth. The historic enrollment numbers are widely available to anyone interested:</p>

<p>Here are the fall enrollment details for the last ten years:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.swarthmore.edu/Admin/institutional_research/Categories.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.swarthmore.edu/Admin/institutional_research/Categories.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Here is a link showing the linear growth rate of Swarthmore's enrollment since its founding in the 1860s...a pattern that the college has decided to continue.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.swarthmore.edu/NatSci/landuse/enrollments.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.swarthmore.edu/NatSci/landuse/enrollments.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>And, finally, here are the results of a 1998 study of square footage at the 31 COFHE colleges and universities. </p>

<p><a href="http://www.swarthmore.edu/NatSci/landuse/SquareFootage1998.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.swarthmore.edu/NatSci/landuse/SquareFootage1998.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Swarthmore's 514 sq feet per student living on campus was the highest of the 31 COFHE schools. The COFHE median was 378 sq. feet. The COFHE minimum was 278 sq. feet.</p>

<p>I'm sorry that you got a crappy room one year at Swarthmore. But, honestly, I don't see that as the end of the world. But, in the interest of completeness, I will hereby advise all specs that they will probably not get their first choice room all four years of college.</p>

<p>d) I am aware that Swatties do not take advantage of the proximity to Philadelphia, New York, and Washington anywhere near as often as they should. Just don't look for sympathy from me on that one. IMO, if a Swattie doesn't get off his or her duff and go into the city once a month, he or she has no right to complain about "the bubble". If you pick a college because of its convenient access, whose fault is it if you don't take advantage of it? As for the last train leaving downtown at midnite on Friday and 11:20 on Saturday, welcome to the real world. I have to take that into account when taking the train into Boston. It's worth it to not have to deal with parking. Big whup.</p>

<p>e) For next year's entering students, I will pass on the best piece of advice from all four Swarthmore seniors on the parent's orientation panel. Do not get involved in a committed relationship freshman year. According to all four veteran Swatties, those students who do so tend to isolate themselves from the bonding that makes for a happy four years. The second best piece of advice was to get your papers WA'd. </p>

<p>f) On the football decision: my opinion is that the guts to make that decision is one of the reasons that I truly respect the governance of the college. The decision was not only the correct decision, but inevitable. As soon as the board realized the decision was inevitable (in December), they knew that they had to act immediately because it would not have been ethical to enroll a new class of football recruits in April. I'm sorry that former NFL president Neil Austrian resigned from the Board in a huff, but I don't really care.</p>

<p>On the topic of football, I am just curious why you call the decision "inevitable". Also, while I wasn’t there at the time, and I personally have no attachment to the football program, the impression I have got from students there at the time is that their main complaints with the decision stem from the fact that it was made both without consulting the students, and was declared after there had been repeated promises that football would not be cut. I agree it takes guts to lie to the entire student body, in particular the athletes who produced one of the best football seasons in decades, but I hardly find it admirable, and neither did the students. Also, Neil Austrian wasn't the only Board Member upset with the way things were handled, and quite frankly I have a lot more respect for their opinions then I do yours. Here are some links to Phoenix articles on the subject.</p>

<p><a href="http://www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/org/phoenix/2000/2000-12-03/news/10458.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/org/phoenix/2000/2000-12-03/news/10458.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/org/phoenix/2000/2000-12-07/news/10548.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/org/phoenix/2000/2000-12-07/news/10548.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p><a href="http://phoenix.swarthmore.edu/2005-02-10/news/14631%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://phoenix.swarthmore.edu/2005-02-10/news/14631&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Similarly, on the subject of housing, I got the impression that NR was complaining about the fact that the college pushed enrollment up with little publicity at the time. The fact that the stats are openly available now doesn’t change that. I also know people who were forced to live in houses where staff/faculty usually live because of the housing crisis. Again, just because there is no housing crisis now, doesn’t mean that there wasn’t a poorly handled one in the past. I have also have to say on the subject of cohorts I’ve heard stories of people getting pretty badly screwed over if they get on the bad side of Myrt, so I’m not really sure how fair the whole thing is.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Similarly, on the subject of housing, I got the impression that NR was complaining about the fact that the college pushed enrollment up with little publicity at the time.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Alas, the facts (and college policy) don't support Nancy's complaint. Here are the total enrollment figures for each of the ten fall semesters beginning in 1995:</p>

<p>1995: 1417
1996: 1482
1997: 1438
1998: 1452
1999: 1467
2000: 1428
2001: 1467
2002: 1479
2003: 1500
2004: 1474
2005: 1479</p>

<p>As you can see, it is not possible to control enrollment with single digit precision. Year to year swings of 25 to 50 students are common -- due to a variety of issues including first year yield, 5th year seniors, etc. The year of the worst housing crunch was 2003. It was caused by a spike in enrollment, a drop in study abroad of 40 students due to the post 9/11 wars, and a long-term trend of more students wanting to live on campus.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I have also have to say on the subject of cohorts I’ve heard stories of people getting pretty badly screwed over if they get on the bad side of Myrt, so I’m not really sure how fair the whole thing is.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>You hear lot of stories from college students. All I can say is that the two Swarthmore roomates I know best couldn't have gotten a worse lottery number. They were patient, let the process play out, and Myrt took care of them big time. I do imagine that, if a student acts like a spoiled brat, Myrt might not go out of her way to accomodate. Good for her. I have reason to believe that students and their parents have acted like spoiled whiney brats in the past, demanding a room for "little johnny" and wanting it NOW.</p>

<p>
[quote]
On the topic of football, I am just curious why you call the decision "inevitable".

[/quote]
</p>

<p>It was inevitable because the college's priorities on maintaining a small size, a priority on academic excellence, and a commitment to diversity in admissions cannot support the 20+ football recruits each year required for a viable football program.</p>

<p>Cathy Abbott '72, a member of the Board of Managers and the Athletic Review Committee, probably does the best job of outlining the rationale:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/org/phoenix/2000/2000-12-07/opinions/10541.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/org/phoenix/2000/2000-12-07/opinions/10541.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>More detail is available in the statement from the President, Provost, and Chair of the Board:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/org/phoenix/2000/2000-12-07/opinions/10537.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/org/phoenix/2000/2000-12-07/opinions/10537.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I give a lot of respect to the views of Eugene Lang '38 on the decision, not only because of his financial commitment to the college, but because of his commitment to education at all levels -- from his I Have a Dream Foundation to his views on incorporating citizenship and service into the college curriculum:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/org/phoenix/2000/2000-12-07/opinions/10542.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/org/phoenix/2000/2000-12-07/opinions/10542.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I also pay attention to Neil Grabois '57, who was dean of faculty at Williams when I was there, later became president of Colgate, and now serves on the Carnegie Foundation and Swarthmore boards:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.swarthmore.edu/Home/News/Media/Releases/00/grabois.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.swarthmore.edu/Home/News/Media/Releases/00/grabois.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>I also pay attention to Board Member Nancy Bekavac '69, President of Scripps College in her letter to the NY Times:</p>

<p>"Re your Dec. 5 Sports pages article about the decision of Swarthmore College to discontinue football:</p>

<p>"The comments of alumni decrying the decision were articulate and passionate, no surprise for Swarthmore graduates. But it is hardly the case that athletics is undervalued in American society or higher education. Compare press coverage of, say, the Heisman Trophy announcement to the naming of Rhodes or Marshall scholars. Intellectual rigor, artistic innovation, social engagement and civil discussion - the core of a Swarthmore education - are less well understood and less celebrated than achievements on the gridiron. But not at Swarthmore. The division between valuing athletics and intellect is ancient, going back to the roots of Western civilization. Consider Sparta and Athens. Swarthmore has always stood with the Athenians. Who now remembers the won-lost record of the Spartans?"</p>

<p>And finally, the text of the letter to Al Bloom from Karl Furstenberg, Dean of Admissions at Dartmouth is interesting:</p>

<p>
[quote]
“I am writing to commend you on the decision to eliminate football from your athletic offerings. Other institutions would do well to follow your lead. I know you've heard a lot of criticism about this decision, but I, for one, support this change.</p>

<p>“You are exactly right in asserting that football programs represent a sacrifice to the academic quality and diversity of entering first-year classes. This is particularly true at highly selective institutions that aspire to academic excellence. My experience at both Wesleyan and Dartmouth is consistent with what you have observed at Swarthmore.</p>

<p>“I wish this were not true but sadly football, and the culture that surrounds it, is antithetical to the academic mission of colleges such as ours. This is really a national problem and it is a good thing that you are taking leadership on the issue. A close examination of intercollegiate athletics within the Ivy League would point to other sports in which the same phenomenon is apparent.”

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Frankly, some decisions require a larger vision and historical perspective than can be brought to the table by current students who only have a short-term frame of reference. Students were represented by four members of the Athletic Review Committee that recommended ending football. Beyond that, I really don't think it was the student's decision to make.</p>

<p>
[quote]
i got pretty significant need-based financial aid, and as the endowment suffered, my aid went down (and my parents didn't make more money - my dad was essentially out of work the my sophomore year, meaning that my aid should've gone up, if anything, for my junior year. instead, it was slashed from around 1/2 tuition to a few thousand dollars).

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Nancy_Reagan, as your husband would say, "there you go again!"</p>

<p>Your financial aid package did not decline between the endowment fell with the stock market in the early 2000's. Swarthmore budgets a fixed percentage increase in spending regardless of year to year endowment fluctuations.</p>

<p>Swarthmore's aid budget increased every year you were at Swarthmore.</p>

<p>I agree that students should not necessarily have the final say in big decisions such as whether or not football should be cut, but I don’t see how you can dismiss them completely either. When I asked why you said that football being cut was inevitable, I wasn’t disagreeing with the decision, just wondering why use such a strong word, and why did the decision have to be made in a 24 hour window, especially after ED applications had already been submitted. Yes ED football players were released of their commitment (though at least one came anyway), but they also used their only ED on Swat, and the recruiting season was pretty much over anyway. I will say again, I’m not arguing the decision was wrong, simply that it could have been handled better. Finally, since you mention Mr. Furstenberg I will leave you with this:</p>

<p>"I am very sorry that remarks I made in a private December 2000 letter to the President of Swarthmore College will offend and disappoint people I care about and who, as I do, care about Dartmouth and our student athletes. I have great respect for our Athletic Program and the coaches and students who represent the College so well. This was a private communication to a professional colleague, commenting on a national issue in higher education. I recognize now that the comments I made four years ago were overstated in trying to express support for a friend who found himself under blistering attack for a controversial decision he made.</p>

<p>-- Karl Furstenberg</p>

<p>
[quote]
decision have to be made in a 24 hour window

[/quote]
</p>

<p>The decision wasn't made in 24 hours. Football was nearly dropped in 1997, while Swarthmore was in the middle of the longest losing streak in NCAA history. At the time, the decision was made to give football one more chance and increase the recruiting slots.</p>

<p>Two years later, the athletic department told the Athletic Review Committee they needed to double the number of reserved athletic slots in each freshman class to 30%. That triggered the ARC's recommendation to cut the number of athletic teams.</p>

<p>The Board's decision in their December meeting didn't come as a big surprise. There had been articles in the Phoenix all year suggesting that major cuts in athletic programs were coming.</p>

<p>Many colleges face the same decisions, including in recent years, BU, Rice, Tulane, and others. Most cave to pressure and do stupid things like decide to increase enrollment to improve football recruiting.</p>

<p>On Furstenburg: Yes, it was rather unseemly that the Dartmouth alum made him beg like a dog to keep his job after writing something that every elite college Admissions Dean in the country knows to be true.</p>

<p>BTW, the "inevitable" part came as a result of the ARC's and the Board's decision to increase reserved athletic slots to 15% of each incoming class. Once 15% (56 freshman) was set as the limit, football was doomed.</p>

<p>Williams enrolled 151 freshmen this year who were listed by the athletic department as likely 4-year varsity athletes. Amherst enrolled 126 varsity athletes -- a number that would be right at the 32% of Swarthmore's freshman class the athletic department insisted it needed. to continue to support football. 126 recruited athletes out of 370 freshmen and Swarthmore would no longer be Swarthmore in any recognizable fashion.</p>

<p>Football was already on a ventilator at Swarthmore. The "best season in years" you talk about was 4-5 record after going something like 1-40 over the prior 5 years. The team had almost gone out of business in 1997 when Dean Gross and the Athletic Director seriously considered forfeiting a game because only 28 players dressed.</p>

<p>For the life of me, I can't understand why you would spend so much time and effort rebutting these posters (students and parents). Even if I had the time and inclination, it just comes off as petty. And finally, many of their points are fairly raised, notwithstanding your overbearing defense.</p>

<p>At one time, you offered helpful guidance to students and parents. Now, you've become some sort of proselytizer. Take up a(nother) hobby.</p>