<p>While researching Xavier I came across a program they have in conjunction with the University of Toledo's Medical School called MEDSTART. My understanding is that if certain undergrad criteria is met you are basically guaranteed admittance to the med school. There is no requirement for the MCAT exam.</p>
<p>This strikes me as highly beneficial. What are the negatives? Also is there a listing of other school that have similar programs and are any of them better/worse than others? </p>
<p>IMO, the "lock-in" feature of most programs is the big negative of the 8 year programs. Med school is very expensive and I have to think financing options will be highly variable and as such flexibility will be a key for most families. </p>
<p>I don't like the 6 year programs, or even the 7.</p>
<p>High school should be high school, UG should be UG, med school should be med school. I see no valid reason to rush things along for most kids (including mine). Life will still be there if they take a little time to take some history, and Spanish, and some study abroad. </p>
<p>An add'l problem for a kid like mine, who today is intent on an Md./Phd. is there are no dual admission B.S./ (Md./Phd.) programs. </p>
<p>My last point for now is more personal. I don't really like high school kids showing or proving their seriousness about medicine as a career by hanging around hospitals. Logging a couple of thousand hours of medical exposure doesn't leave much time for basketball, tuba, and Harry Potter. Let'em be kids as long as they can.</p>
<p>Edit: My kid did apply to one such program at a state school in our home state. She made the finals but was shot down, possibly because it was the only BS/MD program she applied to and they seemed to doubt her resolve or seriousness. This particular school also has a primary care physician focus and D is more research oriented. If asked, she will tell you that -based on advice received from physician friends- she would have turned it down if offered. Truth be known , we'll never know, will we? ;)</p>
<p>I agree with above. My son in high school thought med school was the only path for him. Our state has one program with the UG admission to med school, and we discouraged him from applying. Now, as a junior with the premed reqs mainly behind him, he is having second thoughts. Even though his gpa is fine for admission, he is discovering other paths that also interest him.</p>
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My last point for now is more personal. I don't really like high school kids showing or proving their seriousness about medicine as a career by hanging around hospitals. Logging a couple of thousand hours of medical exposure doesn't leave much time for basketball, tuba, and Harry Potter. Let'em be kids as long as they can.
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<p>Agree, my nephew basically did that and debate, he was not accepted to a prestigious college like HYP, despite the fact that he graduated val and his hs sends lots of kids to HYP.</p>
<p>My other niece, got into one of the top medical school in the South, but switched to law after one year. She was determined to be a doctor since she was a tee todler.</p>
<p>I discouraged my kid to have this goal in high school, eventhough when she tested for possible career path, her aptitude test showed medical field. If she decided to go into this field later on then that would be fine, but high school is too early to have these plans. </p>
<p>Let them take O-chem first, that is the true test for med school. :)</p>
<p>Most MDs I know (I'm an MD) would say that the "straight out of high school programs" are a bad idea for the majority of kids. I know several who have counseled their own children NOT to follow that path, including one who talked his son into turning down a spot in one of these programs. There are a few exceptions, but it is a real niche program. Most students are just not developmentally ready to make that decision properly. In fact, more and more students sit out a year between undergrad and med school, or go back to college to get prereqs after having a change in career path. </p>
<p>I have heard of variants where you get a decision after 2 years of college - that's a little better. </p>
<p>As for avoiding the MCAT, I have something of a survival of the fittest mentality about that - if a student is so afraid of the MCAT that missing the test is a big selling point, then they have no business going to med school - it is just one standardized test after another.</p>
<p>Physician family here: agree completely with curm. Docs need lots of life experiences and maturity to take full advantage of medical training and be good at their jobs. My H's advice to our probably-premed daughter and her similarly minded friends is to major in something they truly love (bio? Spanish? econ?) AND complete the premed requirements. Spend summers exploring MANY things, including medicine, if it works out. He'd like to see students work a little, travel, experience the world before applying to medical school. Medical practice involves interacting with a cross section of humans, and being able to make connections with people from many walks of life is important to providing them with the best medical treatment.</p>
<p>D worked as a waitress in my sister's small town cafe' two summers ago. Don't you know she learned more about human nature there than in any other two month time in her life? The next summer she worked in an opthamologist's office actually doing things and shadowed a cardiologist and plastic surgeon for extended times, too. At all 3 offices the staff told me that D had a great rapport and "feel" for the patients. Knew when and how to "joke". Knew when to be quiet. The waitressing really gave her confidence and a great sense of perspective. (Dad had a plan and surprisingly, it worked like a champ.;))</p>
<p>A good friend did the Brown program. I'm not sure how it works exactly, but the MD program was linked to the UG program. It worked very well for him and I think he took a variety of courses UG. I'm seeing him this WE and will ask for details.</p>
<p>Brown PLME is one of the more "holistic" programs. You can read much more about in the Brown PLME thread on the link I provided earlier. Some of the Early Assurance programs that take kids in their sophomore year (like the GWU program at Rhodes) do so with the specific intent to get them to broaden their educational horizons (up to and including requesting an essay on how this Early Acceptance will change their academic plans).</p>
<p>There is quite a push in med school admissions to find students who communicate well, relate well, and have a broad grasp of the world around them. Of course, my D - ever the cantankerous one, plans on double majoring in Bio and Chem. When I suggest a possible non-science double major or even minor "Science, dad. It's what I like to do. It's exciting." Thank God Rhodes has what are in effect substantial distribution requirements. Oh, she sees that I'm right about admissions. She just doesn't care that I'm right. What's new about that? LOL.</p>
<p>My nephew went through the Brown program. It was a great program--but after 8 years and a gazillion dollars he decided that medicine wasn't really for him. He went into the family business instead. My point is that people change--and being sure that you want to be a doctor at age 18 is not the same thing as being sure at 22--or 26. I think the idea of admitting 18 year olds is very misguided.</p>
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Most MDs I know (I'm an MD) would say that the "straight out of high school programs" are a bad idea for the majority of kids
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<p>Very true. My h. is also an MD and that is how he has counseled our son. Many of the other MDs I know feel the same way. In fact, I can't think of one local Dr. whose child went with this type of program--though there are several who decided to go to med school after the traditional UG. The majors represented by these students were very diverse (from the traditional sciences, to business, to one that was called "war and peace").</p>
<p>One of my son's college friends was on the doctor track her whole life. There are several doctors and surgeons in her family and she always knew this was the career for her. At the deciding moment she re-decided and is now on the law track. The 20's is a time of experimentation and personal growth. Kids do change and it's wonderful to have flexibility and especially the ability to take some risks.</p>
<p>Another friend who is Asian/European went directly from highschool to med-school (in Europe). Now when so many of my son's peers are thinking about graduate school this kid is actually examining patients and getting ready to set up shop. He recently attended a 6 week program at a prestigious New York hospital and was astonished at the maturity and sophistication of the American medical students. It's a whole different philosophy.</p>
<p>Another thing that worries me about these programs (warning, feeling less than charitable) is "locking" a kid into that 8 very expensive years. Some private med schools like the idea of getting some very bright kids early on. It is hard then for the student to look at other med schools (read cheaper). I'm famous for pushing every student to look at their in-state med school first. everyone thinks Harvard or Johns Hopkins is the way to go, but they're confusing med school with law school or undergrad. Only kids with very special interests aren't best served by the cheapest (usually in-state) med school.</p>
<p>I was accepted to UMKC's 6 year program (my mother made me apply), and had two doctors counsel me to not take the spot for many of the same reasons listed here. </p>
<p>One of the overlooked things is maturity of the typical medical school class. My medical school class has many people who are over age 30, some even as old as 38 when we started. While many of my classmates are my age, having been accepted on our first application cycle and starting immediately after college graduation, I know that the older students in my class have added a lot of to my development as a physician. That is something entirely missing when you have a class of 130 eighteen year olds. </p>
<p>While that's certainly not a sufficient reason to completely abandon an accelerated program, it's another disadvantage - among many - to throw on the pile.</p>
<p>I don't know.
I think you need to decide for yourself whether these programs are right for you, and if you think they might be, you need to do the research to see which ones in particular fit your needs (they all have very different rules, guidelines, perks, costs, etc.).</p>
<p>I am part of the combined Rice/Baylor program (starting at Baylor this fall) and I am very happy with my decision to take a spot in this program. There are a lot of great things about this program:
It's 8 years (I too am not a big fan of the accelerated programs and didn't apply to any), it feeds into a top 10 med school that is also the cheapest private med school in the U.S., it is non-binding (if you don't want to go to med school, or you want to apply elsewhere that's totally fine. And if you apply elsewhere, you don't lose your spot at Baylor). There are other good parts too, but I like those reasons.</p>
<p>As an aside, in response to the comments about high schoolers working long hours in research or volunteering to prove their dedication, or about students not gaining a well rounded education in these programs, I would like to vehemently disagree. The students who get into these programs volunteer and do research because they like to and would do it anyway, in my experience. These students also have the opportunity to study whatever they want, do whatever extracurriculars they want, without worrying about what an admissions committee will think. It is the students who know that they are going to need to impress a committee who I see majoring in biochem even though they hate it and juggling lab work with opening clinics in sub-saharan africa and playing with small children at the local children's hospital just to put it on their resume.</p>
<p>So anyway, my point is: research the programs. They might be right for your child, and they might not be. More than likely, some will be, and some will not be. But I can tell you, it has been a great choice for me, and for several others that I know.</p>