<p>Bay, I didn’t go to Fresno State. In fact, I have never been to Fresno in my life. But the reporter I know who went there is an intelligent, delightful coworker…and yes, she is well-traveled :)</p>
<p>It is far-fetched in the extreme to claim that the EDUCATION in Art History at U Conn (not talking the intangibles, but Anna’s dad claim that he only cares about EDUCATION) is the same as at Yale or Williams (up and down the highway, respectively.) Yale has two art museums with world class collections (and a host of other galleries and museums for rare books, contemporary art and the like) and undergrads have full access to curators, professors, workshops, and the “inner sanctum” of how art is restored, maintained, preserved, and studied. Williams has both a museum which attracts scholars from around the world-- in addition to its own faculty. It’s not for nothing that a tiny school like Williams is known as the “Art History Mafia”-- you cannot throw a bowling bowl through any museum, gallery, auction house, or insurance company which insures fine art without hitting Williams alums- young, old, intern, student. It is that pervasive.</p>
<p>No knock on U Conn. A motivated student there can certainly get on a bus or train and travel to Boston (or Williamstown or New Haven) to see art while studying it. But the education one can get at a school which has invested millions in infrastructure (in my case, galleries and museums and studios, but also labs, archives, performance facilities, libraries, etc.) is substantively different than the education you get at a place which has a few faculty members and minimal investment beyond that.</p>
<p>Anna, I appreciate the fact that student studying political science at Yale may never step foot in the museum. That student may actually be in a seminar studying the Cold War with the actual architect of the US policy towards the USSR but I digress.</p>
<p>If your POV is that education is what’s found in a book or online- then for sure, paying 55K per year would be a ridiculous investment. And if you have a student planning on majoring in beer pong (and yes, there are students like that at Williams and Yale and every other college on the planet) then save your money and get his/her ticket punched with a degree in the cheapest way possible.</p>
<p>But there are universities whose reputations are quite deserved. They employ world class professors- who do indeed teach undergrads-- they invest in the creation and preservation of culture and history and science and technology- and those institutions are the envy of less fortunate colleges and universities around the world. You may think it’s bunk- and your kids may never set foot on those campuses, but academic reputations existed long before US News published a single magazine.</p>
<p>One of the schools on that list had been a “dream” school for my older s for as long as I can remember. After we visited (which included DS sitting in on classes, personal meeting with faculty, spending evening with students, etc) he proclaimed “that school is for grad school. They don’t care about their undergrads”. He didn’t even apply. Others would disagree with his opinion, but it was pretty clear to him.</p>
<p>^My D had a similar reaction to Brown. On paper it looked like her dream school. After visiting, she didn’t even apply.</p>
<p>But back to the OP, obviously his/her choice is between 2 schools s/he would like to attend.</p>
<p>The OP has stated in another thread that the two schools under consideration are Brown and McGill and that he wants to major in mathematics and may want to work outside of the US. </p>
<p>Despite the significant differences between the schools, it would be hard to argue that he would not get be able to get an excellent education at both.</p>
<p>They are very, very different experiences, however.</p>
<p>McGill v Brown - that is a horse of a different color.</p>
<p>I’m not familiar with McGill, and I know everyone hates USNWR rankings, but it ranked McGill at #17 in the world, and Brown as #39.</p>
<p>I respect your point blossom. But what if we are not just talking about the tippy top schools? Im not. Maybe all of you out-class me, but if I were a kid my hopes (without having seen them) would be set on Reed, Scripps, or Whitman (even if I could get into ivies, which I couldn’t, and so many great kids can’t). What if the school is great but not at the pinnacle of greatness that no other can compare? Would you say then, just go to the good state school instead of paying the big bucks?</p>
<p>No. Reed is one of the most rigorous and well respected liberal arts schools beyond the top 3 and is easily worth the difference in cost over a non-top state school.</p>
<p>Blossoms post is spot on, as usual. </p>
<p>Thanks for the info, cellardwellar. The OP is apparently looking at about $100K difference between the COA of the two schools. They are both good schools. If $100K is a drop in the bucket for his family, then the best advice is to suggest that the OP visit both schools, sit in on classes, meet with faculty, spend an overnight with students (if available) and see which feels better (different size, campus location/feel, etc). If he gets the “aha- this is IT” feel from one school over the other, then he is lucky to have the luxury of a choice. Since he plans to work internationally, he would probably have assistance from both schools in terms of assistance with career placement. And starting a job with $100K extra in ones pocket is nothing to sneeze at. This is a nice problem to have (assuming both school have offered admission already, or are we speaking hypothetically? Does Brown/McGill have EA or a non binding ED?)</p>
<p>Given these two schools, I don’t personally think Brown is worth the $100K more in cost. Thats pretty tough to justify. And I like Brown a lot. But not $100K - not that much.</p>
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<p>But still, props for using it in a sentence effectively and appropriately ;)</p>
<p>Ithacakid. Wait until you have to work to make $250,000. Maybe you will have the same opinion, maybe not. And yes, I would love my for kid to go to Reed, but there is no merit aid there.</p>
<p>redpoint, you said that your child attends a NYC public magnet and that:</p>
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<p>Maybe it depends on the public magnet. My offspring graduated from one a while ago, but more recently that cobrat. Out of curiosity, I just checked the data and it’s still rare for anyone to go to Geneseo. You don’t need all the fingers of one hand to count the # of kids who end up there in any given year.(The # of kids accepted is literally 30x as high, so it’s not the case that they have trouble getting in.) The kids who go there are usually in the bottom half of the class. These are good, smart kids, but they aren’t getting into HYPS. It does happen–I know of someone who later went to a top law school whose parents forced her to go to Geneseo, even though she got into Princeton—but it’s exceedingly rare. (That kid went to high school in a wealthy suburb.) </p>
<p>And the immigrant families I knew when my kid attended high school were upset when their kids ended up at a school like Geneseo. I’m NOT saying that they SHOULD have been–just that they were. Maybe if they do, they thrive, but it’s not as if Geneseo is what mom & dad want them to aim for. It just isn’t. THAT has not changed. </p>
<p>CUNY’s Macaulay Honors program snares more kids than Geneseo does these days. It gives free tuition, of course, and the immigrant parents seem to think it’s a better choice than Geneseo for that reason. Apparently, Macaulay lets local kids live in the limited # of dorms, which makes it attractive for the kids who don’t want to live at home. </p>
<p>Back when my kid was in high school, the immigrant parents didn’t think that Geneseo was “worth it” compared to Sophie Davis for pre-meds or Baruch for business majors or, for that matter, Hunter and Brooklyn College. </p>
<p>I don’t know if it’s still the case, but it used to be that URochester charged SUNY prices for NY state residents who met certain criteria, and all the kids who had the choice, chose URochester over Geneseo. I think the Cornell land grants ILR and School of Human Ecology are only a bit more expensive, and personally I think they too are better options for most kids. YMMV.</p>
<p>I often disagree with cobrat, but in this case, I think he’s right. </p>
<p>BTW, I think Geneseo is a good school. I just don’t think the kids from NYC public magnets are thrilled when they end up there, even though they may thrive there. They might thrive at lots of other colleges too, of course.</p>
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<p>Hope no one minds if I jump in here for some clarification since annasdad (and the rest of you!) aren’t helping as I read through this all! 
Sorry if some of you have read this on the 2012 thread, but this seemed like a good place to get more input. </p>
<p>Like many of you, we’re in this predicament right now, but with a “state flagship” school I’m not seeing mentioned, vs. schools (above) that are. My son applied early this year as a junior to colleges and got accepted EA to MIT, Caltech, and Purdue, planning to major in Mechanical Engineering. Bottom line is that with scholarships and lower tuition, etc., he could probably graduate from Purdue (still ranked top 10 in Engineering/ME) for a total cost of less than one year at Purdue. Also, with the amount that he can validate (based on AP’s & college classes he’s taken), he could probably complete their MS/BSME program in 4 years and end up with a Masters in the same time as a Bachelors from one of the other 2 schools.</p>
<p>I believe that he can make the most of opportunities at any of these colleges, and probably be able to get a good job or into a good grad school from any. My concern is more with the actual experience there - is it worth that much more (4-5 times as much!) to interact with teachers & students of “MIT caliber” than at a state school? Will he get lost in the shuffle at either school? (Either because there are so many other higher quality students at MIT/Caltech or because there are just too many students at Purdue)? </p>
<p>Thoughts?</p>
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<p>I know nothing about the merits of one engineering school over another, but many here do and will have good input on this subject. However, something none of can do is predict how well a particular student will do in any environment. So much of that depends on the temperament and personality of the individual student, and many other personal factors and unique circumstances.</p>
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<p>When the “state school” or “cheap school” is as good as Purdue is, it is hard to make a strong argument to going to a significantly more expensive school for mechanical engineering. (How much more expensive would MIT and Caltech be?)</p>
<p>Also note that at big state universities, majors like math, physics, and engineering tend to attract students of higher ability and motivation than the general student population, because those majors are perceived as being “hard”. (Philosophy may also be similar in this respect.)</p>
<p>Note that Purdue does offer honors math courses (MA 18100, 18200, 36000) for motivated students in math.</p>
<p>Purdue is certainly good enough to be on the list of schools visited by traveling recruiters from engineering companies; only if the goal is to work in investment banking or management consulting would there be a big recruiting advantage at MIT. (But note that being local to where you want to work helps, since some companies may not travel much, and interviewing at a local company is more convenient for both the company and student.)</p>
<p>I would say the exact thing jonri describes holds true for the kids at our high school. Top kids (especially ones interested in a more LAC experience) aren’t attending Geneseo though many apply as a safety. Macauley honors OTOH is quite popular, you can’t beat free tuition and NYC. And some parents (especially immigrant ones) like the idea of their children living at home - this seems especially true of the daughters. By all accounts Geneseo is a good school, and a good deal, I just don’t know anyone who had it as a first choice from the top 15% or so of the class.</p>
<p>marciemi, assuming ratings are meaningful, I agree it’s hard to believe that even Caltech and MIT are worth the extra bucks. I think the tininess and intensity of Caltech makes it the right place for some (and the wrong place for many). It’s so quirky and individual, I don’t think you can make the decision without a visit and probably meeting professors in the department. Both my boys loved the vibe, you would be immersed in nerdom there. I believe MIT is similar, but bigger and with some non-science strengths like architecture and business less intensely nerdy in culture. Caltech, in particular, is notorious for requiring some pretty heavy duty math and physics of every freshman no matter what. It also has an honor code and a culture of collaboration that we found very attractive. (I can talk a bit more about Caltech than MIT here as my husband was a grad student there and I worked in a library there for a while.)</p>
<p>Marci- you indeed have a predicament. When my son was looking at MIT we drew a line between what other schools we’d be willing to pay full freight for and those we were not. Our state U is nowhere near as well regarded as Purdue so we didn’t have your problem! There were many private U’s whose engineering programs were not worth it (for us), but of course the financial difference between MIT and going out of state to someone else’s state U isn’t anywhere near as dramatic as MIT or CalTech vs. Purdue which is a fine institution.</p>
<p>You haven’t noted a couple of facts which I think are relevant- your age, ages of your other children, employment status, level of debt, amount of savings, etc. If you are 60 years old and sending your son to Caltech or MIT will delay your own retirement by 20 years–and you’ve got another child heading off to college in two years-- well, that’s a hard decision. If you are 45 years old and still rising in your own career, getting annual raises, have a 401K and get full matches every year by your employer, and this is your only child- well, that’s another story.</p>
<p>Your S is obviously a very special kid to be in this predicament- congratulations on even having such a dilemma!!!</p>
<p>Jumping in only having gotten to #35,but with regard to Kia’s and Olive garden, for some folks driving is not about getting from point A to point B, and some people eat to live, while others live to eat. </p>
<p>Personally, I would pay for a great dining experience faster than I would pay for an elite education. I am not really into cars, but have driven some nice ones because husband is. Beyond the luxury, of those who have driven both, would you say the actual driving experience is the same? I’m talking about handling, and such.</p>
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<p>Some luxury brands, like BMW/Mini, emphasize the sporty driving experience. Others, like Lexus, do not for most models.</p>
<p>This is true for non-luxury brands as well. Ford and Mazda cars are generally sportier to drive than Toyota cars, for example.</p>