<p>^^ What far away from home has to do with it is that NOW we understand the obsessive need to justify the Miami Ohio choice. Close to home!! She’s saying no school (and none of the elites are near their home) is worth the money since it isn’t close to home.</p>
<p>Personally, I cannot stand judging schools by the USNWR. Lists like this makes me cringe. I wouldnt ever consider a school worth it because they are on this list. A school would be desirable only if it were right for my child.</p>
<p>eastcoascrazy #107…brilliant…and there is a whole industry whose continued existence depends on the continuation and growth of the fear.</p>
<p>Cobrat-- my child is at one of those top test-in NYC public high schools. None of the kids she knows have that “I’m so smart, nothing but the ivies is good enough for me” attitude. Most of those kids are children of hard-working immigrants and qualify for free lunch. Maybe times have changed, and they are not the same kind you knew. I am sure all of those bright kids will thrive even if they have to lower themselves (ok, being sarcastic here) to go to Geneseo.</p>
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<p>Yes, but Pell Grants are available for those from families up to about the 40th or 50th percentile income. Of the high reputation schools, UCLA comes the closest to that at 37%, with Berkeley just behind at 36%. Following them are Columbia at 26%, then MIT and USC at 19%, and Stanford, Harvard, and Chicago at 17%.</p>
<p>I’ll bite, if you all promise not to jump all over my opinion… because that’s all it is: an opinion:</p>
<p>John’s Hopkins’ college of engineering for a Maryland resident would probably NOT be worth it. Not when the University of Maryland, 40 miles down the road is ranked on par with Hopkins for engineering, and costs about one third the price.</p>
<p>Last year S2 was considering engineering. He was accepted into U-Md’s Aerospace Engineering Program and Honors program, with merit money for full tuition at U-Md. We would have paid only room and board. Hopkins would have run well over $50,0000/ year. ( He was extremely uninterested in Hopkins, and didn’t submit the application, so we’ll never know exactly what the price would have been, but it surely would have been much more than U-Md.)</p>
<p>He also was accepted to Vanderbilt’s college of engineering. Even with money offered by Vanderbilt, it would have cost us over $50,000 (list price was $61,000). Also not worth it.</p>
<p>Neither of those programs would have been worth it FOR MY SON, (who wasn’t positive that engineering was the route he wanted to go) BUT that doesn’t mean they wouldn’t have been worth it for someone else. It is all really subjective.</p>
<p>As it turns out, he chose to go to UNC Chapel Hill, which doesn’t even HAVE engineering! But we could happily afford UNC, and it was the school he loved. He entered with an undecided major.</p>
<p>And yes, cotton headed ninnymuggins is a wonderfully descriptive phrase from the movie ELF. :)</p>
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<p>You can get a perfectly good education at most non-flagship state schools. I personally know many people who have. If in my state a flagship cost significantly more than a non-flagship, I would have trouble justifying the additional cost to get the more prestigious degree.</p>
<p>But then again, I consider education the primary reason for going to college, not the “college experience” or the prestige of the credential. It’s apparent that puts me in the minority hereabouts.</p>
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<p>With the possible exceptions of MIT and CalTech, none of them are worth spending top dollar for. Reason: you can get an equivalent education elsewhere for far less money - either at an instate public school, or at a lower-prestige private with a substantial merit scholarship.</p>
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<p>You obviously ignored comparisons in a previous thread between course descriptions at various state universities of different levels of selectivity. For example, the more selective school may cover more material in a given course than the less selective school, or the more selective school may offer an honors version. A highly motivated student looking for a more rigorous education would likely find more rigor at the more selective school (though there is enough variation that one needs to individually evaluate course catalogs and syllabuses if that is a concern, especially if the schools are “not that far apart”).</p>
<p>This does not mean that the less selective school is “bad” for the motivated student (assuming it has the desired major – some majors tend to disappear at low selectivity schools due to lack of student interest), but a significantly more selective school is likely to be better educationally (without regard to prestige and its secondary effects).</p>
<p>I have a strong subjective opinion about which school is not worth paying for in full, for undergraduate. My h did his PhD at JHU, so of course he was a TA. He always said there was no way he would send his children there for undergrad work, to be taught by the TAs like himself and his friends. They had enough stress doing their own work. Teaching was way down on their list of priorities, as it was for the professors. And a few of his classmates could barely speak English, let alone teach. Maybe that was just his department, maybe times have changed. Doubt it.</p>
<p>Whoa-- lotta posts!!
To respond:
I totally agree with you. What I don’t agree with are the comments by some posters (not you) that imply that a third tier school and a first tier school are equal in terms of what a student can get out of it and what opportunities they will have in life down the road. Sure there are somestudents who will soar from a third tier school. But they are likely the exception, not the rule. </p>
<p>Most of us are not interested in wasting money and really don’t want to flush good money down the toilet. I would not encourage a student to spend mega thousands on an elite school if their goal was to be a personal trainer or physical therapist. That said, maybe they’d make friends with some rich kid who had the contacts/connections to help them open a gym and follow their dream. Stranger things have happened.</p>
<p>On the subject of learning at a second or third rate university: I went to an intellectual undergrad school, but did my masters at a third rate place because my employer paid for it. I was taken aback by how simple a portion of the students were, but there were others who were quite sharp, and the professors were great. It was a great opportunity, I learned a lot, and it was free. All I lack is prestige.</p>
<p>Now this doesn’t mean I would send my kid to a lesser state school if I could pay for a better one, which I will.</p>
<p>I’m also not saying a third tier schoolis the same as a first, also, far from it. I’m saying one can make do, and prosper. As I have said previously, I am an advocate (for those who would be full pay, but don’t feel rich) of good public honors programs (or merit aid).</p>
<p>“Most of us are not interested in wasting money and really don’t want to flush good money down the toilet. I would not encourage a student to spend mega thousands on an elite school if their goal was to be a personal trainer or physical therapist.”</p>
<p>There’s a big difference between a personal trainer and a physical therapist. Now maybe it doesn’t matter where you go to undergraduate as a physical therapist because you generally have to get a masters anyways. But that job does pay a decent wage and is in high demand.</p>
<p>In the newsroom at the daily newspaper in my town, there are reporters with journalism degrees from Fresno State, Cal Poly SLO, Harvard, San Diego State, Florida State and USC. Thanks to the Guild, all are aware that salaries are the same level. The Harvard and USC reporters paid much more in tuition than the State U alums. (This has been discussed; it is not speculation on my part.)</p>
<p>In my own case: I paid for college myself (parents barely interested in whether or where I went to school), so I went to a State U. Waited tables to make ends meet all four years. Yet I also had a wonderful internship, which set me up to land a great entry-level job in my field. I’ve never had to settle, I’ve always snared the job I wanted and have sincerely enjoyed my career. If I’d been able to pay for USC (which was my dream school when I was 18), would I be happier now, all these years later? </p>
<p>By the way, I met my husband in the newsroom (fellow employee) at one of my early jobs. I wouldn’t trade him for two degrees from USC. :)</p>
<p>Those were just examples, busdriver. That said, there are a lot who do both. When my DH broke his ankle and had physical therapy, he had rehab paid for by insurance, at a facility owned by our NFL football team!</p>
<p>^I don’t think anyone is debating whether a particular person can succeed or get a certain job whether they went to Fresno State or Harvard. Their college experiences are going to be much different, and the opportunities available to them outside of job training are going to be much different. In addition, don’t forget that college is where you spend 4 years of your young life. Living in Fresno for 4 years is a much different (worse, imo) experience than living in Cambridge for 4 years. Some people don’t care where they live. It matters to me a lot. I wouldn’t live in Fresno unless you paid me a heck of a lot (so I could afford to travel at every opportunity).</p>
<p>Okay, I’ll bite.</p>
<p>I won’t name them, but, depending on major in a couple of cases, I would be reluctant to pay the bill for 6 of the colleges on that list, for varying reasons. </p>
<p>I think one does a lousy job of UG teaching. At three, the student bodies self-segregate too much by race, religion, and amount of family wealth for my taste. I dislike the social scene at three of them for other reasons. I think one short changes liberal arts in comparison with the other schools within the U. I think three have student bodies which are too pre-professional and not intellectual enough for my taste.There’s just way too much drinking at one for my taste. One is just way, way too competitive for my taste. I dislike the neighborhood one is in. (Yes, that adds up to more than 6, since some have multiple “faults.”) </p>
<p>So, I don’t exactly worship at the shrine of USNews. </p>
<p>But note that there are still a lot of schools on the list that I would pay for—including my alma mater and my kid’s alma mater. </p>
<p>Again, it’s a personal decision.</p>
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<p>doctorate is the standard now. Yes, it wouldn’t make sense to pay full price at an elite when you must then enter 1 of only about 200 programs where you can get a DPT.</p>
<p>My D has been saying she want to be a PT since about 4th grade when she had a foot injury. I will encourage this fully, nothing better than having a good paying job waiting for you.</p>
<p>jonri,
You have provided fair criticisms of some the of schools. If your choice was between $50K at one of the 6 and your in-state, does that mean you would choose your in-state?</p>