<p>Anyone chosen one over the other? Discuss why. My little brother is currently debating what he's going to do regarding RD.</p>
<p>Prestige is definitely a factor for him, by the way, so that should be a facet of the discourse. Penn’s ascendancy vs brown/dart’s stagnance, etc.</p>
<p>Prestigewise they are all interchangeable once people realize which Penn you’re talking about.</p>
<p>In terms of appeal to the layman, well, all 4 are probably unheard of compared to HYP, except Columbia and Dartmouth get (marginally) more movie/TV shoutouts and Brown is where all the hippie Baby Boomer celebriparents have sent their hippie kids.</p>
<p>At the start of the 20th century, Columbia would have been the unquestioned leader in prestige amongst Penn, Brown, and Dartmouth. Its wealth at the turn of the century was matched only by Harvard’s. Then the 1960s and 1970s happened, and that was that for Columbia. Columbia will always have a prestige advantage because its campus is in a world locus of financial and cultural power, but in terms of actual academic output, it is on par with Penn (the only other full-blown university of the 4), and in terms of undergraduate collegiate experience, it would be dead last.</p>
<p>Brown, Dartmouth, and Penn would all do a better job at that. Among those remaining 3, I took out Dartmouth because I like city life and don’t want to live in the boonies. I took out Brown because it was simply too hippie for me, and that left me with Penn. I also like the breadth available to Penn students through its 4 undergrad schools as well as its graduate and professional schools.</p>
<p>Have him apply to all four RD and see where he gets in first.</p>
<p>Columbia is most prestigious. If that’s what he really wants. It also has NYC and a lot of top Grad schools. I have great respect for the school, but I know so many that come away feeling that it lacked a community, and a personalized experience. </p>
<p>Penn is great if you love the city, want to be exposed to a lot of research, as well as be exposed to strong graduate schools. Has a top notch u-grad business program. Definitely a great school. Some complaints I have heard from friends and teachers (who go/went there) is that it is in a dangerous part of town and that there is a lot of international professors (some with poor english skills!) and big lecture classes.</p>
<p>Brown is great for its lack of requirements, access to a top art school, and exposure to a pretty good city. Some complain that it is over the top liberal (to the point that students feel ostracized for different political views.) It has a very quirky feel to it (in a good way for some). Wide pot usage (speculated, but once again a good thing for some)</p>
<p>Dartmouth is great if you want that traditional well-rounded LAC/college experience. The flexible D-Plan, strong outdoors/athletic opportunities, and loyal-to-the-death-and-beyond alumni are among its assets (including owning 32 thousand acres of land in NH). Some might not like that it is far away from major cities (2 hours to boston/montreal) (It’s much less convenient to go to shopping malls on the weekends). Prominent Greek scene is not for everyone.</p>
<p>Thanks for the input, guys. He definitely wants a city, and he hated Brown, so it’s down to Penn and Columbia. He’s clouded by US News, as well; we’ll see what he thinks if and when he gets into both.</p>
<p>I’d say “if” is the operative word here ;)</p>
<p>I didn’t consider Dartmouth or Brown for the same reasons as your brother. I thought I liked Penn and Columbia equally back in high school, but now I realize they’re incredibly, incredibly different schools.</p>
<p>Academically, Columbia has the Core. It’s a big deal. My non-SEAS friends were talking about how they don’t really take classes for their major until sophomore or junior year. I personally would have hated that. At Penn I feel you have a lot of academic freedom, and 90% of us aren’t doing 2 of the same 3 majors (at Columbia they are Political Science, Economics, and Human Rights). However, if that’s what your brother wants to do, then Columbia might be for him. Penn, meanwhile is definitely very pre-professional. Which is like the very opposite of the Core.</p>
<p>The culture is also extremely different. Columbia doesn’t have nearly as strong of a campus life as we do. That isn’t necessarily a bad thing, and a lot of people here aren’t very involved and that’s fine. But to me being involved on campus means much more than even which classes I take, so I appreciate how dedicated people are to their extracurriculars. However, a major plus for Columbia is New York, which is the only reason I wanted to go there, the only reason why many people are currently there, and something that no other Ivy-level school can match.</p>
<p>And finally, Columbia College has a swimming test that you must pass to graduate. That could be an issue. :)</p>
<p>Thanks, that was the most helpful response so far.</p>
<p>I think Columbia’s social life leaves, without being offensive, much to be desired. The city consumes it. Penn is WAY better and much more balanced. </p>
<p>As for B/D:
Brown isn’t close to as liberal as its portrayed to be. Dartmouth’s alumni network/ finance and business presence/ study abroad are an advantage.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>See world? I’m NOT crazy!</p>
<p>Yeah, Columbia’s social scene is a well-known disaster zone. Also, good point about Brown’s supposed liberality.</p>
<p>You really should visit each campus to get a feel for the experience. I never once set foot on Penn’s campus and was in for a rude, but not altogether unpleasant awakening. People often romanticize city life but frankly, it’s seedy and squalid outside the pockets of civilization here in Philly.</p>
<p>What are you looking for specifically in these schools? As far as prestige and rank are concerned, they do not always correlate. I have the dubious pleasure of going to the highest ranked Ivy beneath HYP that is often confused for a state (or worse unknown) school, so if its prestige amongst laymen you’re after, do not come here. </p>
<p>Brown</p>
<p>Pros: Lack of core curriculum, relatively high prestige amongst the laity, small student body, relatively selective admissions, location (Providence not too sprawling, but not too small either)</p>
<p>Cons: Consistently sliding US News rank</p>
<p>Columbia</p>
<p>Pros: Beautiful, self-contained, fortress-like campus with a real Ivy feel, consistently high rank</p>
<p>Cons: Location near Harlem projects (in the sprawling urban mess that is New York), high cost of living, large student body and perhaps more impersonal experience</p>
<p>Dartmouth</p>
<p>Pros: Consistently high rank, relatively selective admissions, small class sizes, lovely campus with true Ivy feel</p>
<p>Cons: Extreme rural location (makes travel and recreation difficult)</p>
<p>Penn</p>
<p>Pros: Highest rank in Ivy League beneath HYP; mid-sized student body allows small classes, but provides nice interaction; Philly has the perks of a big city, without the massive sprawl (of New York)</p>
<p>Cons: Relatively little prestige amongst the laity (and even some college students); like Columbia, its location in the slums</p>
<p>You need to ask yourself the following questions:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Can I survive in the middle of rural America and maintain my sanity? If not, eliminate Dartmouth.</p></li>
<li><p>Conversely, will I enjoy the hustle and bustle (i.e. squalor and pushiness) of city life? If not, eliminate Columbia (and Penn).</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Indeed, I would go with Brown. Its rank may leave much to be desired, but it’s an Ivy nonetheless and will always have residual prestige. It has a liberal arts feel in that it is close-knit and selective, but also the university feel of its Providence (i.e. mid-sized city) location.</p>
<p>Great post. My bro hates Brown, due mainly to its rapidly disappearing name in the rankings. He dismisses Penn’s current lack of laity-driven prestige. He sees it (correctly, I think) as something that will surface with a vengeance in the coming years as the more successful and recent graduates of the school go out into the world and pwn the living hell out of it.</p>
<p>I talked to him on the phone yesterday, and he told me that he would much rather have a concrete statistic behind his resume (the US News ranking, the Princeton Review’s, etc.) than the layman’s prestige (ie, your barber knowing Columbia vs. Penn). He probably makes a valid point.</p>
<p>I live in New York City. My friends from high school who graduated this year, as members of the Class of '12, absolutely hate everyone else who attends Columbia. The NYC high school kids have to cling together because everyone from random towns come to Columbia and think, “Hey, I’m in New York City! I’m going to become a coked-out party animal and I can do whatever I want!” Columbia is awful, awful socially, and if you don’t have a decent-sized group of friends you’ll be alienated by the bunch of idiots who get arrested at clubs on a daily basis for having a fake ID.</p>
<p>How do your friends consider themselves compared to you in terms of the Penn vs Columbia thing?</p>
<p>I think you are focusing on the wrong thing. None of these schools is more prestigious than the other. They’ll all get you into tp law schools, med schools, grad schools etc or into top business jobs. Choose for fit and the best overall experience, not non-existent prestige differences. There is no possible way Penn is more prestigious than Brown.</p>
<p>brown and dartmouth are great places to go for an awesome undergrad experience</p>
<p>columbia can be great for the right kind of person</p>
<p>in my personal opinion, upenn trails all three</p>
<p>Sorry, kiddo, but Penn is more highly ranked than all of them. Care to back up your op?</p>
<p>I’m applying to Penn ED, and I’ve heard from numerous people that the academic quality is subpar to Columbia. Penn, however, has better job placement and more successful graduates because so many of the applicants are well-connected. The overall alumni network is pretty, strong, too; UPenn graduates are particularly partial to fellow alumni when hiring. As for Brown, the lack of strong graduate programs hurts them compared to Penn and a few other Ivies. It’s obviously much easier to get into Wharton Graduate School as a Penn grad or HBS as a Harvard alumnus.</p>
<p>Academic quality is subpar to Columbia? Probably some Columbia kids told you that. It’s not true, though, I’m afraid. Nor is Penn less selective, which is another myth I hear from time to time.</p>