<p>Hi! I was just told today that Penn is centered around Wharton, and although it is spectacular for business, it most definitely does not excel in the sciences. </p>
<p>I am passionate about genetics, and plan on getting my master's in genetic counseling, possibly majoring in biology (although I am hearing more and more that graduate science programs are looking for liberal arts majors!). Penn was originally a school I was very interested in, specifically for it's location, large Jewish community and of course, reputation. </p>
<p>But, now I'm thinking it might not be the place for me. Any answers, suggestions, advice, or recommendations of other schools suitable would be highly appreciated! </p>
<p>I do not think this is true at all. I have heard that Penn has a great science programs. The medical school, which is ranked 3 or 4, is right on campus. The biomedical engineering program is ranked 7 (although I have heard that there are some areas of their engineering which are better than others). Overall Penn is an outstanding school, and I would think science would be one of their strengths (besides Wharton).</p>
<p>Penn has very good science departments. According to the Gourman ranking of undergraduate biology departments, Penn is 18th, better than schools such as Princeton and Johns Hopkins–here’s the list</p>
<p>Caltech
MIT
Yale
Harvard
Wisconsin
UC San Diego
UC Berkeley
U Colorado
Columbia
Stanford
U Washington
U Chicago
Duke
Wash U St Louis
UCLA
U Michigan
Cornell
U Penn
Purdue
Indiana U
UNC Chapel Hill
U Utah
Johns Hopkins
Northwestern
Princeton
UC Irvine
Notre Dame
UC Santa Barbara
UVA
Brown
U Illinois Urbana Champaign
U Pittsburgh
Vanderbilt
U Oregon
SUNY Stony Brook
U Rochester
Tufts
U Minnesota
SUNY Buffalo
U Texas Austin
Florida State
Michigan State
USC
U Connecticut
UC Riverside
Rice
Iowa State
SUNY Albany
Case Western
Boston U
Ohio State
NYU
U Iowa
Penn State
Emory
Brandeis
U Kansas
Rutgers New Brunswick
Tulane
US Air Force Academy
U Missouri Columbia</p>
<p>You’re right. Penn’s science programs are definitely weaker than its counterparts. Of course, it’s going to be better than random schools across the country, but I’m assuming you want to go one of the best. If you’re looking for a pure science/ tech school then I’d say MIT or Caltech. MIT has always been a research powerhouse and will give you a lot of great experience.There are a good number of students who are not pure engineers and take only the science courses offered there. Caltech is not as social because it is so small but the JPL lab is next to it and students can work there. It’s in Pasadena, which is a nice city. But if you want the Ivy feel with an option to take liberal arts classes and participate in top research programs then Cornell. It’s engineering programs are all the highest ranked in the Ivy league, which has drawn in world-renowned faculty, has solidified its science programs as some of the strongest in the world and places students in the top graduate programs (including its own top ranked programs). The only school with a top engineering/science program that also has literary icons as alumni that include Kurt Vonnegut, Toni Morrison, Thomas Pynchon, and E.B. White.</p>
<p>Well I’m sure you know it’s not MIT, but you will not be disadvantaged in any way by going there. Honestly at the undergraduate level, how much you learn depends on you, and not how many nobel laureate professors there are at your school</p>
<p>this includes the med school, biomedical-type biology research, biomedical-type chemistry research, and bio(med)engineering - as well as nursing-related stuff</p>
<p>Shanana, do you seriously think this matters? You’re going to be an undergraduate, and you are very unlikely to exhaust the Bio course offerings or class difficulty.</p>
<p>What matters most, especially in terms of grad school opportunities and jobs, is the quality of your fellow students and the educational level of the institution as a whole, so that when you distinguish yourself it actually means something - and in that case, Penn is one of the best in the country.</p>
<p>It would be stupid to attend Wisconsin or UC San Diego over Stanford or Penn, simply because the bio departments are ranked higher. Do you see why that would be true?</p>
<p>You’re not coming here to do your PhD - it hardly matters whether the department is ranked 18th, or 8th.</p>
<p>^exactly the point I was trying to make. The material you learn at the undergraduate level is basic enough that you will end up learning the same things at any top school. Wait until you go for your Ph.d before looking at specific department rankings.</p>
<p>Penn draws many of the best science students in the nation to its Vagelos programs, and there are resources/research opportunities galore. You are almost kind of embarrassing yourself, imo, by claiming that their sciences are “not good”… unless you are an absolute genius, who knows how you would even stack up against the Penn students in science programs, especially Vagelos. I am consistently impressed. I agree with muerteapablo… it’d be silly to go somewhere else based on rankings. There is so much to be accomplished at Penn, and I highly doubt it’d be easy. And it sounds like you already have very solid reasons for being attracted to Penn, so why not give it a shot?</p>
<p>(Not to be overly defensive, but this thread really does seem prissy and silly to me.)</p>
<p>Penn’s definitely excellent for bioengineering and probably also for some of the other science majors in CAS. Other than that, I’ve noticed that the focus (such as for engineering students such as myself) is on getting people into business. Penn SEAS gets grads into techie places like Google and Microsoft, consulting firms like Accenture and Deloitte, and finance firms like GS and Citi. Since that’s exactly where I want to go (one of those three categories at least!), Penn engineering is perfect for me. Now if your goal is to get a PhD and go into R&D, then maybe Penn is not such a good idea (unless your interest is in bioengineering, of course)…</p>
<p>yes, but bbb is more of a premed major than anything else, not so much designed for a specific career in the way you might do chem or bio for an industry career</p>
<p>same quality of research and related opportunities apply</p>
<p>Thank you all for the excellent advice. The person who relayed this information to me must have been highly misinformed.</p>
<p>redandblue: I would like to clarify-I was not in any way implying that I am too smart for Penn’s apparently outstanding science program. I am sorry if it sounded like that, and now I can see how it did. I simply wanted to clarify what I was told as I was very disappointed when I heard this. </p>
<p>However, I don’t see any prissiness or silliness in the question or any of the helpful answers given; this forum is intended for those who are uninformed to become informed. Where can you find a better example than this thread?</p>
<p>Totally incorrect. BBB is Penn’s equivalent of neurobiology, and it is one of the best such programs (Penn has insanely good cognitive science, neuroscience, psych, etc, all ranked in the top 10 programs in the country).</p>