<p>I clarified my statement twice; that I was speaking specifically of my D private school that NO ONE AT HER SCHOOL has given up Penn for Michigan; while they have given up Duke for Michigan. That is a fact, just as much as your 5 friends giving up Penn for Michigan. </p>
<p>Undoubtedly, you can do all those things at Penn - the advising, the internships study abroad, the job prospects (with the exception of warm weather year round; and the intense sports rivalry; but I don’t think they are the hallmarks of a quality undergraduate education). Duke and Penn as has been summarized in this thread are vastly similar in the opportunities they offer and ultimately it is the fit between schools that should be relevant. </p>
<p>I do believe that Duke offers an undergraduate experience on par with Dartmouth, Columbia and the other schools you mention but in terms of selectivity & cross admit preference they are not yet in the same league. But it will not surprise me to see the acceptance % get in the same group as they were off only by a few % points. I am still trying to figure out why with the 20%+ rise in ED applicants this year, Duke is already taking kids off waitlist before May 1st?</p>
<p>Duke is a fantastic school, you should be proud of your accomplishment in getting in and thriving in such a fabulous environment. Finally, while the lay person may not know all the schools in the ivy league, the people who matter do. And these same people also know that a Duke student is on par with these schools.</p>
<p>Just because a school is more selective doesn’t mean it’s better. Duke is ranked higher than Brown and Dartmouth but both are more selective than Duke. Also, just because the majority of cross admits go to Penn doesn’t mean it’s better. That’s like saying popular music is the best music around. If that were the case, Miley Cyrus is better than the Beatles and Led Zeppelin. I’m not saying Duke is better, I’m just saying these factors don’t make a school better.</p>
And Penn. Penn is not a “bottom-feeder.” It is in that rung of schools, whether you like it or not.</p>
<p>@glasstiger50
I slightly agree with your sentiment, but I dispute the analogy:
</p>
<p>Do listeners make the music good? No. But do APPLICANTS make the COLLEGE good? Yes. You cant analogize two opposite scenarios like that - but I think that you see that now.
To continue - as I’ve said, if 7/10 of the best cross-admits go to Penn, Penn will have the more selective group. Does that make sense to you?</p>
<p>I’m not trying to say either school is better than the other. I’m just trying to say they’re essentially equals. Look at the SATs for both: nearly identical. Look at their undergraduate rankings: Penn tied for 6, Duke tied for 8 (no significant difference). Look at medical schools: Duke is 6, Penn is 4 (again, no significant difference). With the exception of Wharton, the schools are almost identical. One should pick between the schools based on fit, as many people have said. I chose Duke because I felt like I belonged there.</p>
<p>Hi, glasstiger: at the undergraduate level, although Penn is slightly more selective, I would agree that the schools are very similar. I think that Duke is considered the same as Dartmouth, Brown, Penn, and Columbia - it inhabits that tier of elite schools. Your choice is totally credited.</p>
<p>However, I would advise you not to use graduate schools to support your argument. Penn’s graduate programs are literally among the best in the country, and while one of Duke’s professional schools is excellent (medicine), the others are below Penn’s (law, business), and their academic departments are generally FAR below Penn’s (Econ, psychology, English, sociology, physics, linguistics, bio, anthropology, education… you name it).</p>
<p>Well, I was mainly talking about undergrad since that’s where I’m headed next and using grad schools as a strengthening point. However, if you go to a #10 English school in the country versus a #4 …it isn’t like Duke’s grad schools are terrible. They are still excellent.</p>
That figure comes from the Revealed Preferences study, which gathered its data during the 1999-2000 school year…nearly 10 years ago.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>It’s an estimation based on 3240 students…only a tiny percentage of whom were admitted to both Duke and Penn.</p></li>
<li><p>Actual cross-admit data says otherwise.
</p>
<ol>
<li>That’s assuming that the Penn-Duke cross-admits are the best of both applicant pools, which is a foolish assumption to make. Harvard could win 80% of the Caltech-Harvard cross-admits, but Caltech still has a stronger student body.</li>
</ol>
<p>How many students are even admitted to both Duke and Penn, anyway?</p>
<p>who cares that some kid at your prep school picked michigan over duke, or that some kid you met hasnt heard of duke or thinks penn is a public school. you’re crazy if you think either school gives you a significant leg up over the other, they’re both in the top .01 percent of schools in the nation, the student bodies are more similar than different, and you can have a great time and be successful at both. pick the school you feel most comfortable at, they’re both great, and please, please, please stop relying on inane anecdotal evidence to try and justify your college choice, people would kill to go to either of these schools. who are you trying to impress?</p>