<p>Really how is UNC far better? Is that just your personal preference or are you just a troll that goes by college rankings yet know nothing about the college in reference</p>
<p>If a school is ranked in the top 50 universities in the nation, its a good school. Penn States one of the top publics for sure as well with a great honors program. UNC is better, I dont know about FAR better, but its definately better. Penn State though is one of the best state schools in america, I really cant think of many that are better</p>
<p>What are some colleges that have an equal or similar admission level to Penn State?</p>
<p>Slipper, presidents and admissions officers of other universities would beg to differ with you. Wisconsin and North Carolina share the same peer assessment ranking of 4.2/5.0, and just as a note, PSU isn't too far behind with a 3.8/5.0.</p>
<p>The point is, there's really not enough of a difference to make an impact, especially if you plan on going to graduate school.</p>
<p>Lets see, UNC is ranked higher in nearly every ranked academic category if you want to compare by graduate rankings (which I think aren't completely relevant since this is undergrad). Penn State has never been ranked within 10 places of UNC in any US published college ranking ever. UNC's admissions standards are far better. UNC wins in nearly every single undergrad relevant category, some by a significant margin. Look yourself. You are comparing a top 25 school with a top 50 school.</p>
<p>If you look at placement into grad programs, they aren't at the same level. At places like Wharton, Columbia Business, Harvard Law, etc that publish rankings AND in the WSJ survey of top grad schools UNC is far better than Penn State. I have never ever seen anything to the contrary.</p>
<p>I think that many would agree that it's dangerous to follow the rankings so closely. For example, I know many people who would consider UC-Berkeley a more prestigious institution, than say, Washington University in St. Louis. However, WUSL is about ten spots higher than Cal on US News and World Report; does this make WUSL a better institution? Absolutely not; there is definitely some faulty criteria that goes into determining these assessments.</p>
<p>I spent probably the last ten minutes looking for my copy of US News and World Report, but I couldn't find it. However, I'd be willing to bet that PSU is ranked similarly to UNC-Chapel Hill in the engineering and business divisions, if it doesn't surpass it.</p>
<p>
[quote]
WUSL is about ten spots higher than Cal on US News and World Report; does this make WUSL a better institution? Absolutely not
[/quote]
This is your opinion. All ranking criteria will be faulty in someone's eyes. I'd pick WashU over Berkeley any day.</p>
<p>USNWR undergrad business - Penn State is 18 and UNC is 5.</p>
<p>PSU Engineering v UNC--no contest.</p>
<p>PSU engineering may be better quality, but UNC overall is better...in almost every way except football</p>
<p>These rankings comes from people that arent even learning at the univsersity or participating as students. The rankings are for us yet they are done by people that are basing their rankings off a set of numbers that they gather from sources that are in no way scientifically credible. So what does that mean, the rankings are speculation, could be biased and obviously could vary from person to person. Who can really say that a nobel prize winning teacher could teach better than one that just has a phd or masters. That title doesnt make you a great teacher. Just because a school places students into more prestigous jobs doesnt mean that school is better. It just means for businesses that they can attend a school that has already weeded out many of the un qualified people. Doesnt mean someone from Cal State La cant be taught and do better than one from Harvard</p>
<p>Funny you mention Cal St LA. We had a corporate retreat this week and the president was there. Somone asked him where he had gone to college. He responded "CSLA--you needed a 2.0 to get in and a 2.0 to graduate and I just made both". Now he runs a major firm based in LA.</p>
<p>
[quote]
This is your opinion. All ranking criteria will be faulty in someone's eyes. I'd pick WashU over Berkeley any day.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Just as that is your opinion. The difference is, Berkeley blows Washingtion University in St. Louis out of the water in the peer assessment rating. Comparing 4.8/5.0 to a 4.0/5.0 shows that, according to a majority of universities across the nation, UC Berkeley is considered a superior institution.</p>
<p>Yes, but you are only discussing one factor of the rankings in which Berkeley beats WashU and showing it as a reason that Berkeley is superior?</p>
<p>This thread is about the matters of prestige and regard among universities (PSU, in particular, but we've drifted away from that). Peer assessment is clearly the best measure of this.</p>
<p>And I don't believe I ever said that I view UC Berkeley as a more industrious school; simply that the public perception is that it is.</p>
<p>In response to the person commenting on "trolling" and what not for certain schools.... I highly recommend that they check out the number of top 10 departments the University of Wisconsin has compared to UNC. Political Science, History, Sociology, English.. yeah... Wisconsin ranks higher.... and fyi</p>
<p>Summary of US News dept rankings</p>
<p>The Top 25 Research Universities in the U.S., 2002-2003 based on the depth and breadth of academic quality of programs </p>
<h1>of programs in top 25</h1>
<p>University of Wisconsin , Madison (34)
Duke University (21)
University of North Carolina , Chapel Hill (17) </p>
<p>It's such a wide canyon between the schools, that the UNC finds, "University of California - Berkeley University of California - Los Angeles University of Florida University of Illinois - Urbana-Champaign U niversity of Michigan - Ann Arbor University of Texas - Austin University of Virginia University of Washington - Seattle University of Wisconsin - Madison," as their peer institutions when studying their educational quality.</p>
<p>Puh-lease. You have to wonder when CC goes from helpful to down right obtrusive to a college search when people with little qualification assert themselves in positions of authority on subjects... and people actually believe them. <em>Gulp</em></p>
<p>We are talking about undergrad - and you can tell the quality of an undergrad in part by the strength of the undergrad student body</p>
<p>in that aspect you'll see both psu and wisconsin-madison as lagging a bit behind unc</p>
<p>This is undergrad, not "research institution grad". And Penn State Business compared to UNC? Not even remotely comparable. UNC engineering doesn't exist I believe...</p>
<p>First of all, the claim was that UNC had more "top departments" than UW-Madison and PSU. Department rankings are almost exclusive to graduate departments. These are the departments which teach the undergraduates. </p>
<p>Also, arguing that quality of undergrad is a direct representation of the school's quality has invalid assumptions. Yes, I'll agree, as a trend, the better the student quality, the better the school. However for example, Boston University has a lower acceptance rate than Michigan and a higher SAT average (1300 to 1280). There are many examples of schools that are much lower ranked with "better" student bodies just like this. The problem with correlating student body to quality of school is seen in law schools, too. Washington University in St. Louis has a "top 25" law school, in part because they attract top students with money. However, <em>it has been argued</em> that lawyers don't recognize it as their peers in the US News will be, because the school simply doesn't have the quality to teach the best students. Even if the median student has a lower score at one, it is a better comparison of the people teaching. After all, who cares if you have a 2400 SAT if a bus driver is teaching you...</p>
<p>I should also note that PSU and Wisconsin have much larger student bodies and must enroll many more students than UNC. It's simply supply and demand that they accept more AND have thousands of students with great stats, especially those above the median.</p>
<p>Well, most people with great stats don't go to PSU because students don't think its a good place for driven students...maybe except the SHC college where the kids are more competetive, but for most of those kids as well its not a near top choice</p>
<p>I always find it amazing how quickly these threads get out of hand. The question was about whether or not Penn State was a good school. Although I think the level of prestige is a highly overrated reason to choose a school, the bottom line is that PSU is a good institution. When did Wisconsin get thrown into all of this?</p>
<p>Everyone on CC has biases towards certain schools. I, myself, attend UNC, and thus I am biased towards it. However, I think slipper was correct in calling barrons not only on his bias, but on a mis-statement. Another poster posted what UNC considered to be its peer institutions, and PSU was missing from that list. USNews rankings out the window, PSU is not in the same league as UNC and its peer schools. </p>
<p>Does this make PSU a bad school? No. Is it better than UNC in certain departments? Probably. Should you base your decision on which school to attend solely on prestige? Definitely not.</p>