<p>Well, here we are still sitting on the proverbial fence and it is April 23rd. And what is fueling our indecision? Money, of course! DD was given some great scholarships...a large one at BoCo and a decent one at NEC for vocal performance. Juilliard gave her nothing. We submitted an appeal to the Fin aid office there almost 2 weeks ago and still no reply. Money is a concern - the methodology used for the FAFSA is just that and does not give an accurate snapshot of our financial situation. We have explained this in our appeal. BoCo is an hour away; we love the head of the Dept. there! Juilliard is, well, Juilliard. DD will be studying with Edith Bers. We talked to Edith about the issues and she said she would make a call on DD's behalf. I am so scared about this decision. I feel like I haven't slept in weeks because of the worry. Anyone out there with words of wisdom, a slap in the face etc...?</p>
<p>It sounds to me as though you have two great choices even if Juilliard continues to stiff you. Do what’s right for your family finances.</p>
<p>I don’t know which voice studio your D has been accepted to at NEC, but my D’s voice teacher raves about Lorraine Nubar–who teaches at Juilliard pre-college and NEC college. Sounds like you have some fabulous choices. Congratulations to your D and best wishes to you both. I agree with VicAria. Do what’s right for the family finances. Your D will do very well at any of her schools.</p>
<p>I disagree. There is a world of difference between what (undergraduate) voice students are given and achieve at Juilliard compared to NEC. Find a way. Juilliard is the one conservatory I would strongly recommend for undergraduate singers.</p>
<p>Lorelei, you are much more informed than the rest of us on these matters, thank you on behalf of all of us for your contributions to this board! We should all realize that most of us parents are simply giving our opinions, which sometimes may be uninformed at best, misleading at worst. Take mine for what it is–just a point of view, which may or may not be valid in a given situation. Still, I’ve been very grateful for all the valuable info and opinions that so many parents and students offer here. I continue to become more educated in this complicated process. Back when I applied to school for dance performance, I applied to one school, and got in, and that was it. Sure is a different world now!</p>
<p>Wow. I’ll agree that lorelei2702 is clearly more informed than most of us - far more informed than me. And while I’ll agree that her contributions are invaluable and insightful, I have to disagree with the suggestion to put family finances second to your daughter’s opportunity at Juilliard. It is no doubt a fantastic school. But lots of opera singers have come from other places - and there’s always graduate school. I just can’t see the wisdom in going broke for any undergraduate degree. If you don’t WANT to afford it, then lorelei’s advice may carry more weight here, but if you simply CAN’T afford it and you or your daughter will be strapped with massive debt - well, I say protect your family finances first. Good luck, though! We know what it’s like to turn down your first choice school because of money. It’s sad.</p>
<p>There are Juilliard majors selling real estate and no name school attendees singing at the MET. That said, the two schools for undergraduate that would make me really, really think twice about are Juilliard and Curtis. One of course is free (except for living expenses)and the other is a name that everyone in the world knows. Now if this were the Juilliard Opera Center (grad) I would say definitely go for it, but undergraduate, I would have to agree with SimpleLife - there is just too long a road after the 4 years of undergraduate work when she will be in a position that she will need all the financial support she can get. </p>
<p>That said, is Juilliard a clear, out and out winner for her to the extent that she doesn’t feel she would be happy anywhere else? If that is the case, is there a way she could do a benefit concert(s) to put the word out that she is building funds to attend Juilliard - there are donors of the arts that would love to help support a young talent. What a tough decision for your entire family!</p>
<p>Gee, that would be great if you could find a sponsor somewhere! </p>
<p>I also wonder if you’ve talked to admissions about the chance of being awarded merit in future years? We knew Juilliard was going to have a rough year this year financially. They told the current students that there would be a smaller yield (probably) next fall, because they knew they weren’t going to be able to offer as much aid as in previous years, but they weren’t willing to lower standards to cast a wider net. Will they offer merit in future years to this incoming class, if the situation improves, or if they will just send it out to new freshmen?</p>
<p>I don’t envy your situation, and hope you find a decision that you all feel good about.</p>
<p>(At the risk of hijacking this thread - I apologize in advance)
Lorelei - From the posts I’ve read, it seems you’ve been consistent in the “no debt” school choice. In this post, your endorsement of Juilliard undergrad is pretty emphatic. I’ve read elsewhere that they only have an undergrad program because they have to, so I’m really curious…Ignoring name brand recognition, what is it that makes you recommend their program? (I know, it sounds silly to say "why do you recommend Juilliard, but I have experience from the sports world that taught me the best coaches, are not necessarily the best coaches for all developmental levels).<br>
Thanks - looking forward to your answer.</p>
<p>Just want to add my 2 cents here even though my D is MT at Boco. </p>
<p>Lets say you need to borrow $150K to put your S/D through Julliard. Student loans are generally amortized over 10 years but most refinance to 30 years. 150K @ 7% would run about $1,000/month. If you pay $500 twice a month you can cut the years to about 22. Now, here is the big question. Besides being paid for performing (which no one can guarantee) how much more could one make giving lessons, teaching, etc.??? You can drive a sign in any lawn or run an ad in any newspaper, in any town, and if your resume was to contain Julliard, I can guarantee you will attract more students and be able to charge more for your time. Certain schools or conservatories have a “wow factor” and Julliard is among a choice few. My son as we speak now is having a 45 minute voice lesson for $80.00 and the teacher is booked solid 5 nights a week.</p>
<p>Re my post #4: “I disagree. There is a world of difference between what (undergraduate) voice students are given and achieve at Juilliard compared to NEC. Find a way. Juilliard is the one conservatory I would strongly recommend for undergraduate singers.”</p>
<p>Please note that th main issue of my comment is Juilliard versus NEC (and BoCo). Juilliard is unique because of its location and access to Lincoln Center and its staff. There has never been a sense that Juilliard acceptees are padded with full-pay singers, unlike other conservatories…admission there is a major validation of significant talent. I do think that conservatories are not the best environment for undergraduate voice students, and there are many singers emerging from tremendous voice studios in the “provinces” (kudos to SimpleLife). But if the schools under consideration are all conservatories, Juilliard is a compelling opportunity. The debt issue should be an important consideration, but each family knows its own situation…and parents who enable and support the choice of incurring major debt need to plan on long term underwriting privileges. IMHO</p>
<p>My D takes lessons from a Julliard graduate she is very busy, but I don’t think the Julliard brand gets you 80$ for 45 minutes. The price for lessons is based on supply and demand ,teaching skills,prior student sucsess,personalityetc… Julliard is just one factor and it is hard to put a dollar value on it. My 2 cents is talent will rise to the top don’t bankrupt your family.</p>
<p>One other thought that I had not considered that I would like everyone’s thoughts on. What if she decided to try Juilliard for a year? Obviously it is too late to secure finances from recitals, donors, etc. Edith Bers said she was working on financial aide. There are many, many scholarships she can try for. Financially right now it’s a big black hole - but there are glimmers of light. You can then give her a year (depending upon your finances or if she’s willing to incur the debt herself, of course). If at the end of the year, the well is dry, she transfers having a year of Juilliard under her belt and my bet is she would have no trouble getting into those other colleges again or possibly with alot more information gained, she would have other college choices. I believe Juilliard has a limit on the number of times you can audition for them so I would not chance it the other way unless it was for graduate school.</p>
<p>I say this knowing of at least 3 students who are either currently in Juilliard and planning to leave or have already left Juilliard for strictly financial reasons. That name Juilliard is on every application and resume they sent out whether they went there 2 years ago or are just leaving. Just a crazy thought!</p>
<p>Juilliard even in good years was not known for good financial aid packages across the board,and yes this year they are hurting (I have heard numbersthat range from the value of their endowment being 30-50% of what it was before the economy tanked,which wouldn’t surprise me). </p>
<p>The name Juilliard has is obvious (I won’t comment on whether I think the name is totally deserved or not, that is another discussion), and that can weigh in heavily when a student is moving on, it can open doors I am pretty sure and yes, it does have access to Lincoln Center plus does have world class teachers (and some not so world class, no institution, no matter how good, has all brilliant teachers,including Juilliard). </p>
<p>I like others think you need to think through the finances and balance that out. While Juilliard has the name, it isn’t exactly like “go to Julliard or die” I suspect. A lot of people who graduate from juilliard either don’t go into music (50%) or end up, despite having the Julliard degree, never achieving much, while people who have come out of other programs have thrived. I know those numbers as a fact for instrumental music and I would not be surprised if the same thing applies to voice as well. Unless NEC and BoCo’s programs are totally second rate in voice, with no good professors, then the cachet of Julliard’s name or the level of its program may not be worth the cost to you. I have to respect Lorelei’s comment about the level of Juilliard’s program, but I will tell you that the Juilliard name doesn’t guarantee much other then a recognizable name, I have seen teachers at local community music schools or people struggling in small regional orchestras who graduated from there,and they studied with people like Ivan Galamian or Dororthy Delay (that is violin world, which I am familiar with). </p>
<p>I guess my point is that the finances do weigh in and that if you decide that the finances are just too overwhelming, it isn’t necessarily the end of the world. In the end talent is going to be the ultimate judge with music, a name like Juilliard carries weight, perhaps more so then NEC or BoCo, but in the end the student’s desire and the level of teaching is going to mean more, and if NEC or BoCo has decent faculty, it doesn’t mean going their is ruination. The end decision is yours to weigh, unfortunately.I hope that Juilliard does come through, since it sounds like your child has someone willing to help and work with them, but also keep in mind this isn’t totally a life or death decision IMO.</p>
<p>How can I say thank you to each of you who took the time to reply to my “petrified” post. We have done some serious soul (and bank account) searching and our daughter will be accepting her place at Juilliard for the fall.</p>
<p>Now to throw a possible kink into things…she went to an open call for the National Tour of Spring Awakening and was given sides, sheets music etc…and asked to return the next day for a callback for the production staff. All went well…</p>
<p>I have a headache. :)</p>
<p>Congratulations on both situations! I was careful not to post too much because I am well aware of my bias, but now that you’ve decided on Juilliard, I am excited for you. No school is perfect, and Juilliard has its quirks, but my S has been so happy there, both for undergrad and now grad school. </p>
<p>However, we have always given our S the option of “dropping out” if a job comes along. After all, that is what he is going to school for in the first place. And perhaps that will happen for your D before she ever even begins!!! That is so exciting.</p>
<p>How exciting for you all! Your daughter is obviously very talented. Good luck on all fronts. </p>
<p>(When will we all realize that Lorelei’s knowledge base is head& shoulders above the rest of ours? 
)</p>
<p>Wow. Very exciting! Congratulations on both fronts! It must feel great to have that huge decision behind you. And that you can make Juilliard work for her! Fantastic.</p>
<p>How exciting for you both! Congratulations and best wishes!</p>
<p>Congrats on making a decision!</p>