I see a lot of people on here trying to get into the best possible school. I wonder if that is really the right approach? It seems if you barely get accepted into an Ivy League and end up at the lower end of the GPA/scores that are accepted, you risk (1) graduating college with a low GPA and (2) getting washed out of the more demanding programs. Maybe it’s better to go to a mid-range school where you’re comfortably in the top 25% of students and can major in engineering with straight A’s? What do you think?
Someone’s going to be in the bottom 25%, regardless.
Highly selective schools often have a generous grade distribution.
Being in the top 25% is no guarantee of a 4.0 in engineering.
- There is not necessarily a perfect correlation between SAT/ACT scores and in-college performance, as some test-optional colleges have proven in their research. Furthermore, there is not really a concept of being “barely accepted.” Admissions officers at top schools have made comments to the effect that they could accept a whole class full of their rejected applicants and have an equally capable and talented student body. There are many more students capable of the work at a top college than are accepted there. If you are in, you are in, and you start out on equal footing with your peers.
- As far as your question goes, it depends what you want from your college experience. My son’s primary consideration was to be surrounded by super-smart peers. That was the first criterion he used in selecting colleges. Others might be more focused on after-college than in-college, and prefer a place where they are more likely to excel. Still others might prefer to have to work less hard during the college experience itself.
So, there is no one correct answer to your question for all people… just for you or your child.
Good luck!
Your kid doesn’t have to go to the highest ranked school they get into. Neither of mine did — they went to the school that fit the best. But it was nice to have a range of choices.
One of my kids chose a school
that was on the safety end for her with great merit. She graduated Phi Beta Kappa, and got a good job after graduating. Other kid picked a school known for rigor and grade deflation. She graduated in the bottom half of her class, but is very proud of getting through the program (and rightly so). She is in a funded PhD program working on exactly what she wants to research, and should have good industry employment opportunities when she is done. (Yesterday: “Mom, even if you win the Mega Millions, I want to finish my PhD — it is super interesting!” She did ask if I’d cover vet bills if she gets a cat if I win. 
). Point is, it didn’t ruin her life to be in the bottom half of her class.
A lot depends on what you’re trying to get out of college. Class rank is not like in high school: almost no one cares except grad schools and a few employers. If you want to get a degree and just get to work then you need to be interested in your studies, meet interesting people and maybe pick up a cool internship. If you want to go to med school then you need grades, so maybe a less competitive school might help you bob to the top.
At any rate your concern about reach schools could be valid: spending a lot of time keeping up instead of participating in extracurriculars could diminish the experience. But grinding out a 4.0 for med school will too, so you’re going to have to make choices most places. Set your priorities and then shop schools that’ll help you reach those goals.
I liked being around people smarter than me. I mean, up to a point … but yeah, there were a lot of them!
AFAIK, none of my employers ever paid much attention to my college GPA (which turned out to be pretty good, though I had to work for it). YMMV. But look up “Malcolm Gladwell big fish” (or some such) to see support for the OP’s position.
https://www.businessinsider.com/malcolm-gladwells-david-and-goliath-2013-10
As the parent of a couple of kids currently studying as undergraduates, I think that all of the above posters make excellent points. Regarding the philosophical question, here are three quotes that I have saved from various CC forums that seem to me to make good points regarding the “best school” quandry:
(1)
“This notion of ‘best school you can get into’ is somewhat misleading. For starters, it implies that college quality is directly proportional to difficulty of admission, which is not always true. Colleges can set the level of quality they deem necessary to fulfill their mission, stay competitive, and attract students. They can do this independent of the national rankings.
Second, the ‘best school you can get into’ should really be the one that fits you the best from an all-around perspective, and is respected in your desired area(s) of study. You may find that the schools you like best are NOT the schools that best fit your SAT/ACT scores."
(2)
“I don’t think it’s important to go to the ‘best’ school you can get into. I think it’s important to get into a school you can be your best at. Your future is going to be much more impacted by what you do than by where you go.”
(3)
“There is so much more to college than just academics, and there are plenty of jewels out there that are not top ranked. In the end where you find happiness is where you will more likely excel which is the ultimate goal. If you are hating life you are not going to do well no matter how great a school is or supposedly is. College is what you make of it no matter where you land.”
In our family, both of my kids are at public universities that are highly ranked (for whatever that’s worth) for what they want to study. Neither of them are in Honors programs/colleges, nor are they at or near the top of their respective classes where they are at; and they are finding college to be much harder than they initially thought, But they are surrounded by amazing students – the “peer effect” – which enriches their overall experience, and I think that they have fun and interesting extracurricular opportunities that also enrich their overall experience.
As one of the posters above noted, it’s really about what is “best” for your child – which is always going to be different from what is “best” for someone else’s child.
Actually, a lot of employers care about class rank and grades. A student can shine at one school who wouldn’t be able to even pass at another school. Think carefully about fit before grabbing the highest ranked school.
My daughter turned down more competitive schools for better fit. She’s working her tail off but doing great. Definitely the right decision.
The most selective school you can get into isn’t always the best fit for a number of reasons, but don’t assume your gpa will be higher at a less selective school, especially in engineering. Large state schools often exercise grade deflation because they can’t accommodate all of the interested engineers and they need to thin the herd.
It really depends on the student, the major and the school. the most selective school you can get into isn’t always the best choice for many reasons.
Examples can be pre-med/pre-vet want to have the highest GPAs possible and lots of experience in their fields for their applications, and allow for the lowest debt. Sometimes a large state university that isn’t the highest ranked fits this bill perfectly. Engineering can be great at less selective schools. Our engineering is highly sought after and we hire from the big Universities from Purdue, to Iowa State, Kansas State, Embry Riddle, Florida State, UCLA, University of Texas, Texas A&M, University of Virginia, University of Houston, SMU, Vanderbilt, NC State, etc. Those from the less selective colleges turn into just as good employees as from the more selective ones. It depends on the individuals. A great number of engineering firms hire based on what the person has done, their internships, their fit to the corporation, their project work, etc more than based on their college or GPS. If the school is ABET certified it is up to the student to make the best of what is offered.
Go with the best fit for the student and the major.
For a lot of kids the best possible school they can get into is the one their family can afford, and it has nothing to do with popular rankings.
A few comments (from a parent of two kids who went to low reach/high match type of schools and did very well). But they weren’t gunning to find the most “prestigious” school they could get in – we focused a on finding schools that were good fits in every sense of the word. I don’t think there is an exact correlation between HS statistics and how a student does in college – here are some things I noted with my own kids college expereince:
–They did go to a challenging HS so I think they were well prepared for college level work which helped.
–Both of my kids thrive when they are around smart people. They do better when challenged (by coursework, professors, fellow students etc.) and tend to skate by a bit when they are not.
–In college there is more specialization (especially once core/distribution requirements are finished). They both found majors that were really in their academic wheelhouse – as they took upper level classes in their major, their GPA continued to rise.
–They also kicked things into another gear in college – they learned to manage their time better, start big projects well ahead of time, study further in advance for exams etc.
Agree 100% with the OP’s first sentence. Second sentence puzzles me; you either get in or you don’t. I don’t recall seeing any, ‘You just made the cut,’ notes attached to my kid’s acceptances.
I would trust the judgement of the AOs. If they think your application makes you a suitable candidate for acceptance maybe they know what they are talking about.
Comfort and improvement don’t always go hand in hand.
I think if you are in the bottom 25% you may have to work a bit harder and you (or your child) should seriously consider whether they are willing to do that. To be honest, I wasn’t personally willing to do so at that stage of life. I had a great time in college at a big state school, didn’t work very hard, and still pulled a 3.75 GPA. I don’t recommend that path, but in the long run everything worked out fine for me.
Having said that, S is a recruited athlete, and is below the 25% mark. Several of his future teammates are as well. But the team has a GPA that is above average for the very selective school. If he was planning on med school (he isn’t) this would be a bad choice. Otherwise, he should be fine. College isn’t that different from real life. Hard work, discipline and time management to a certain degree trump raw intellectual horsepower, or at least can level the playing field.
There’s a lot of truth to that statement. Hyper-competitive schools are not for everyone. Take the University of Texas, for instance. Most of their engineering students are chosen as freshmen, and availability is artificially limited. If you don’t get in as a freshman, you have a 10% chance of getting in from the outside. This is to keep their graduation rates high. Those stats are proudly published on their website (not something I would want to boast about). Getting into your favorite school is only half the battle. Getting into the major you want at a hyper-competitive school is much harder.
People graduate from “lesser” universities all the time and get good jobs.