<p>I'm looking for good colleges that offer strong BS programs in physics. I'm willing enough to go anywhere in the country (NOT ALASKA), I live in STL, MO. I do intend on pursuing a PhD in astronomy after I earn my undergraduate degree. It is very important to me that I can get involved in research, as well. Also, It is imperative the school isn't huge (preferably less than 10k students), with a fairly low average class size or student/faculty ratio.</p>
<p>My Unweighted GPA is 3.75 and my ACT is a 31... My ECs are somewhat lacking, I've been a member of marching band for 4 years, having been a section leader for junior year, Envirothon for a year and a good amount of tutoring/community service hours. I've done the A+ program if anyone has heard of that, although most 4-year universities don't recognize it. Depending on what constitutes an EC, I am an avid casual astronomer (telescope and stuff) and I write orchestral music for fun. But I guess it wouldn't matter unless I started a club for it. Another factor is my limited money, I can pay about 15k/yr outside of any scholarships/financial aid.</p>
<p>Schools I have considered
Saint Louis University - several of my family members have gone there and I think this is a safe match for me. My mom has worked at the SLU hospital for over 20 years, the employer has a program where I can get 2/3rds of the tuition paid (cutting it down from roughly 38k to something like 13k, outside of any aid/scholarship). Seems like a very good opportunity to me.
MST - It's in-state and pretty cheap, a good safety IMO</p>
<p>outside of these, I don't really know what else to do. What do you guys think?</p>
<p>No love for Fairbanks/Anchorage? Tough customer. </p>
<p>Do you have a “dream” school/any schools you like so as to find a few mojo matches (I had a friend like you, comparable ECs, stats and same major, could suggest some schools she applied to)? You say you like small class size. How d’ya feel about LACs?</p>
<p>And non-school sponsored ECs definitely count–and those are really neat ones! </p>
<p>Additionally, do you know approx. where you’re ranked in your class or have an unweighted GPA (for match, safety, reach, that business).</p>
<p>From what I’ve heard LACs have a more “intellectual” atmosphere and that’s something I’m all for. Main reason I’ve ruled out huge state schools is because I’m not a big partyer and don’t care much about sports… at all… While I haven’t explored LACs as much as general universities, I am open for thought. As far as dream schools, I don’t really know. I’ve been thinking more about where I’d want to go for graduate school, but I suppose I should really be worrying more about what’s happening now. I’d gladly take any suggestions, but I’ve recently shifted my preference to physics so I’m not sure where I’d like to go for such a major. For a long time I was convinced SLU was where I’d go since that’s all my family talked about so I sort of thought Hey, I’d go to SLU. But now that the time has come I haven’t really considered my options as I should have and I don’t even know how to go about finding a school that fits my interests. From the College Match thing I’ve been suggested Drury University, it’s a LAC in Springfield, MO, but I haven’t heard much about it. It’s got a pretty website, but I’m sure there’s more to it than that.</p>
<p>But yes, suggest me what she did, I don’t know many people that enjoy science or physics in general as much as I do, so that’d be a good insight.
Alaska’s too cold sadly. I get enough negative temperatures in the harsh Siberian Missourian winter :(</p>
<p>Illinois Institute of Technology
University of Illinois at Urbana- Champaign
University of Wisconsin- Madison
University of Minnesota- Twin Cities</p>
<p>The general thing you tend to hear about LACs is close professor/student body with the spotlight firmly fixed on undergrad education. I understand completely the position of your family telling you where you’d go, that’s where you’d end up, etc. </p>
<p>But yes, options! Wonderful things. When you say “intellectual,” do you mean it in the sense of academic rigor? If so, check out Swarthmore (I can’t offer anything in the form of atmosphere-vouching as I’m utterly unfamiliar with that)</p>
<p>If you want an “intellectual” student body/discussion emphasis AND rigorous coursework, I’d point you to Reed (with some investigation to be done–definite “not for everyone”) They also have a student-run nuclear reactor, if you’re into that. </p>
<p>U Chicago might interest you, no shortage of intellectual there. </p>
<p>How do you feel about Ivies (some people are allergic, which I get.) My friend applied to three or four, was accepted to one, and couldn’t attend due to financial aid issues–but don’t let that scare you off. </p>
<p>Anyway, all of the above are reaches (for anyone), with Reed maybe lowerish.</p>
<p>EDIT: I second Illinois Urbana-Champaign for all the buzz it gets about its physics program, which I always hear described in superlative form.</p>
<p>I think Carleton would be a good possibility; a bit of a reach, but I think they have a decent undergrad program. But regarding the cost… they have good need based aid, but can’t tell from your post whether you would be eligible for that.</p>
<p>You should go run the net price calculator at each of these schools. I will say that financial aid at public colleges for OOS students isn’t usually so good, so not sure XtremePower’s suggestions will work for you. But the calculators will help you figure that out.</p>
<p>Not saying Swarthmore is a match (your stats probably aren’t high enough), but this link talks about the Keck Consortium. Colgate, Vassar, or Haverford might be possibilities. But again… the calculators will tell you if they are feasible from a cost perspective.</p>
<p>An ivy school would be bittersweet - but perhaps not worth the price, I would be hoping to get into one for my PhD but probably not undergrad. </p>
<p>But yes, by intellectual I meant the rigor of the academics, and perhaps a more, “mature” student body? Most things short of the stereotypical hardcore party scene at my flagship state U would fit the bill for me. The atmosphere of a LAC is appealing to me, and I have heard since they are specialized in such fields they often offer better programs in the sciences.</p>
<p>As for IIT and Urbana-Champaign, I have done a bit of research about them, and I’d say they’re also fairly decent options. Also, which of these schools will fit my budget, assuming I get sufficient aid?</p>
<p>EDIT: Posted before seeing intparent’s post, those are some good suggestions, although In general I’m not that informed on most of the LACs in general. I’ll look up a bit more on each one but I don’t really know how to differentiate from them at this point.</p>
<p>I’ve seen you guys list a lot of reaches, which could I hope for matches? Because of my legacy and price, I think SLU is my closest match for now but I want to have some other ideas of schools I’d most likely get into.</p>
<p>If you want to go to graduate school, make sure that the program you choose has a full year of the important upper level courses: Classical Mechanics, Electrodynamics, and Quantum Mechanics. I have heard from our physics graduates at IIT who go on to a Ph.D. program that they are in a good position because of the full year sequences compared to other students.</p>
<p>If you really want to get a lot of research experience, you might prefer a school which also has a Ph.D. program. That would give you the opportunity work on funded projects and alongside graduate students, an invaluable experience.</p>
<p>Oops, missed the budget part of your post. Yeah, public universities may or may not be the way to go–seconding intparent, run the calculators and get an idea of fin aid. </p>
<p>Ivies can and do give great financial aid, it’s difficult though if you find yourself betwixt and between economically, which is where things get messy.</p>
<p>In addition to Carleton I’d recommend Grinnell (huge financial endowment). There’s also Rensselaer Polytechnic in NY, though you’d have to check out aid on that. </p>
<p>I can see where your coming from. Research is very important to me and I want to get as involved in it as I can throughout the time I’m still in school. If IIT or UIUC are affordable, would they be good options for research institutions? or even SLU? SLU offers a PhD in Physics, but nothing in astronomy, since I am planning to get the PhD IN astronomy but just the undergrad in physics.</p>
<p>I’ve looked at SUNY-Geneseo, they have a pretty low tuition but I haven’t heard much about their programs.</p>
<p>EDIT: I don’t have any preference to an urban or rural setting. I do like rural areas because of less light pollution (better conditions for viewing the heavens) but that shouldn’t be a deciding factor. I suppose a private university may have to be a necessity should I decide out of state, since we’re really concrete on the budget.</p>
<p>It doesn’t really matter what kind of research you do as an undergraduate. It is more important to get the experience. Both IIT and UIUC are research institutions. UIUC has an astronomy program and an observatory on campus, however it is probably OOS for you if you live in Missouri and I don’t know how much financial aid they give. IIT has some astronomy and astrophysics classes and we have a strong relationship with the Adler Planetarium where some of our students do research. We offer merit scholarships and your stats are in the upper part of our entering class.</p>
<p>Thanks for the responses. I’ve been bookmarking the websites of all these schools, but I have some other worries. How viable exactly is a PhD in astronomy? I love the subject but I’m afraid I won’t find a stable job with such a degree. If so, how would a PhD in Chemical Engineering fare? I really want to do research for a living when I am done with school, what types of jobs do Astronomy PhDs find, and those with a Chemical Engineering PhD? What main differences are there between a Chemistry PhD and a Chemical Engineering (Other than the fact it’s an engineering discipline), and which would be easier to find a job with?</p>
<p>Obviously, a physics or astronomy PhD grad would look for research and academic jobs in the field, though such jobs are likely a lot fewer in number than grads looking for them.</p>
<p>A significant portion of physics and astronomy grads (bachelor’s or PhD) end up working in other fields. Fortunately, some of these job fields are reasonably good ones (e.g. finance and computer software), since physics and astronomy grads can do math and often can adapt to these job fields.</p>
<p>The job market for chemical engineering tends to be better than the job market for chemistry.</p>
<p>Thank you for the response. In light of general circumstances, how likely would I be able to find a research or academic job in the astronomy or physics field with a PhD In astronomy? Is it something I can find with time, or are hordes of people fighting over single positions?</p>
<p>Also regarding Chemical Engineering and Chemistry, what are the main differences in what type of work they perform?</p>
<p>First, you need to clarify your financial situation. Ask your parents to use a few on-line calculators to determine how much need based aid you may be eligible for. That plus your $15K may or may not be enough for a private college or university. If it is, then you can pursue a wide range of colleges. If you need merit aid, you’ll have to focus on colleges that offer it.</p>
<p>If the financials work for you I’d suggest you look at Williams: Excellent physics, small but strong astronomy department. [Do some research on Jay Pasachoff.] Clear star filled nights. Your music ECs would be a plus in admissions, even if you don’t intend to double major in music. Like many LACs the degree would be a BA.</p>
<p>The degree title BA versus BS is not a reliable indicator of anything. You need to check the curriculum at each school to figure out if there is any meaning. Some schools offer only BA degrees in physics (e.g. Berkeley), while others offer only BS degrees in physics (e.g. UCSC). Some offer both (e.g. UCSB), in which case you need to determine if the curricula are different in ways that matter.</p>
<p>Thank you for clarifying, although it is kind of funny calling Physics an “Art.”
I have a lot of reaches (mainly low acceptance-rate LACs) but what would be some good matches for me outside of SLU? or some safeties perhaps? </p>
<p>Only problem I have with SLU is that its smackdab in the middle of musty smoky St. Louis. I get bad allergies and I think STL has one of the lowest air quality levels in the nation. Not to mention right outside the campus is a pretty bad neighborhood. It’s very close though, 20 minute drive from my house, so if all else fails it’s a good choice.</p>
<p>I’ve looked at Reed College, while I LOVE the motto (Communism, Atheism & and free love) because I am in fact a communist and an atheist, but they don’t seem to offer much in the realm of astronomy. While I do want to major in physics, an observatory, minor, or emphasis in astronomy would be preferable.</p>