Piece of Advice for 2020 Applicants

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Pennsylvania
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Hi everyone, Im just entered into the class of 2019 and am loving it at Upenn. As you decide what you want to put down as your major I would highly suggest you look over the dual degree programs Penn offers. It won’t hurt applying for them now since you can still select another degree/major to go for as your second choice. I should make clear that a dual degree isn’t the same as a dual major. A dual major gives you 1 degree (from SEAS, CAS, Wharton, or Nursing) with two majors on your certificate. A dual degree gives you two separate certificates with one major each. Its a minor distinction, but the dual degree programs offer more than just the degrees themselves. They give you tons of connections and opportunities. I wish I had known about them before applying because it is a pain to transfer once you are at Penn. Per my understanding there are a few dual degree programs available:
M&T - Management & Technology: One degree from Wharton and one from SEAS
LSM - Life Science and Management: One degree from CAS and one degree from Wharton (specific to biology i believe)
Huntsman - One degree from CAS and One degree from Wharton (specific to international relations and business)
VIPER - Vagelos Integrated Program in Energy Research - One degree from CAS and one degree from SEAS (specific to energy research, chem, bioengineering i think)
NHCM - Nursing school and wharton (similar to LSM except for nursing)
Computer and Cog Sci - One degree from SEAS in comp sci one degree from CAS (by far the easiest to get into)

Other special programs worth looking into (no second degree): NETS (network systems engineering thru SEAS), DMD (digital media and design, SEAS), Bio-Dent (BA and DDM from school of dentistry i believe)

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@bobjones12345 Are you planning to apply to one of the dual degree or special programs?

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@Much2learn im thinking about applying to the computer and cog sci one. Im doing comp sci right now and am also starting on the premed track. that program seems like the best fit for me at the moment and involves the least amount of work to transfer into. From some of my friends’ experience, they said the M&T and LSM are by far the hardest to transfer into (M&T especially if you are an engineer since you need a very high gpa) plus you have to take Econ 001 and 002 (and biology for LSM).

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@bobjones12345 I def agree with what you are saying. the coordinateddual degree programs at Penn are a unique opportunity. What these programs offer is a very small community, incredible guidance and mentorship and a very tight-knit alumni network. However, I do not want people to think that if they are not able to get into one of these dual degree programs they are really worse off and they will not get an incredible education, resources, guidance and top notch recruiting opportunities, cause that is not true. Also there are many different options if one is interested in interdisciplinary study. If one cannot get into M&T, LSM, Huntsman, they can apply to do an uncoordinated dual degree between Wharton and SEAS or the College.

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M & T is difficult to get into, however, most students who successfully transfer into M & T come from engineering. A high gpa helps, but they consider other factors and they will see differences in rigor, so you don’t want to take easy classes and pile up A’s either.

I think that hardest one to transfer into may depend a lot on your background and coursework. For example, D is in SEAS, but is not noted for her artistic ability, so DMD would probably be the most difficult for her to get into. However, she has a solid gpa and one of the most rigorous schedules, and did take Econ, so I think she would have a good chance to transfer into M & T if that was her goal. It really depends on the fit with the student.j

One thing that also impacts the difficulty of getting in is the difficulty of the program. In some of the special programs, the number of transfers they will accept depends on the number of students that decide to switch out. If only two or three students drop a program, the number of transfers into it may be very limited.

I think the key thing about all of these special undergraduate programs, is their level of cross functionality. That is something that is uniquely emphasized and available at Penn. Some of these are have no other similar undergrad program in the country, or there may only be a few. They are definitely worth looking into.

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@Penn95 penn definitely has some of the greatest classes in each of its schools and uncoordinated dual degree programs are an option; however, they require a lot more effort than getting into one of the dual degree programs (and uncoordinated dual degree kids may not be able to get access to the classes specific to the dual degree kids). and @Much2learn by difficulty, i meant more along the lines of spots that people are competing for. If i understand correctly, each year roughly 60-70 kids compete for about 3 m&t slots and 50-60 compete for 2-3 LSM spots.

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@bobjones12345 i have been 3 years at penn now, i am doing an uncoordinated dual degree and I have never heard of a class that is only open to the dual degree kids. all classes are open to all students, regardless of the school they go to or if they are doing a dual degree or not. the value of the formal dual degree programs is the even more personal and detailed guidance relative to other students (who have access to great career counseling anyway) and a more tight-knit alumni network. it is not the case that they have access to different classes than the rest of the students.

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Can you get a degree from Wharton (as part of uncoordinated dual) if you were not admitted into Wharton? Thanks

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@bobjones12345 “I meant more along the lines of spots that people are competing for. If i understand correctly, each year roughly 60-70 kids compete for about 3 m&t slots and 50-60 compete for 2-3 LSM spots.”

I see. Yes, the spots are limited. I heard in a recent year, there were about 8 transfers into M & T, but it varies by year. I did not hear about this year’s transfers. I am also told that the majority of the transfers come from SEAS, with a few from Wharton, and a few from CAS.

I did hear that one of the SEAS special programs, the NETS program, admitted 4 internal transfers this year. I don’t know how many candidates there were, however, the NETS program is smaller than M&T program. So I suspect that your number of 3 transfers is on the low side, but your point is correct that these coordinated dual and special programs are popular with Penn students and definitely have limited seats available. Some strong M & T applicants get rejected, are admitted to the uncoordinated dual degree program. That may take an extra semester or a couple of summers to complete, but could be worth it for some students. The students in the uncoordinated program actually have had slightly higher starting salaries at graduation than the M&T students for some reason. You can look it up on the career services website.

I would add that gpa is important, but they are looking for more than that. They were also interested in rigor, why you you are interested in the program, what relevant work experience you had, what research experience you have, what related clubs and relevant extra curricular activities you have participated in etc. They are trying to find the best students who are truly a good fit for the program.

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@f2000sa “Can you get a degree from Wharton (as part of uncoordinated dual) if you were not admitted into Wharton? Thanks”

Yes. Just like every top school, Penn admissions makes some poor decisions. There are some amazing students at Penn SEAS and Penn CAS that were rejected by Wharton. There are also some students in Wharton that would make you wonder how you can get whatever the Adcom was smoking when they approved that application. The Adcom knows that they make mistakes, and they are open to students reapplying with more information. If you are still interested, it never hurts to try. Maybe this time they will see your true potential. :slight_smile:

Requirements to Apply For a Dual Degree (from SEAS)

Application for dual degree status will not be considered until a minimum of eight (8) course units have been completed at the University.

When applying, a Penn Engineering student should bring the following to the Academic Programs Office: a completed dual degree application (available in 111 Towne) a completed course planning guide (CPG) with the appropriate signatures, and a completed worksheet in Penn InTouch from the appropriate secondary school.

Application must be made prior to the end of the junior year (prior to the end of the sixth semester) at Penn, except for dual degree applications to Wharton, which must be made prior to the end of the sophomore year (prior to the end of the fourth semester) at Penn.

Students applying for dual degree with Wharton must also submit the Wharton application.

These application materials will be considered together with the student’s official transcript.

If approved, the material is forwarded to the second school for their consideration.

Only students of demonstrated ability and a 3.0 cumulative grade point average or higher will be considered for dual degree status.

In particular, dual and joint degrees with the Wharton School require a minimum GPA of 3.4 for consideration.

A student may not transfer into Penn Engineering if his/her record includes uncleared F, I, GR or NR grades.

In particular, we look for successful completion of calculus (typically, at least MATH 114) and physics (typically, PHYS 150/151). Students applying to engineering may submit applications through May 15 for entry the following fall, and December 15 for the spring.

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These are great programs, and it’s fine to make people aware of them. But they are also among the most competitive programs at Penn and nationally, with acceptance rates in the 7-8% range from a pre-selected pool of highly qualified and motivated applicants. People routinely turn down HYPSM for Huntsman, Jerome Fisher M&T, and Vagelos LSM. So knowing about them doesn’t necessarily mean much, unless the applicant is incredibly well qualified to begin with.

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HEY GUYS PLS HELP ME OUT:

I applied for LSM and indicated Wharton as my second choice.
In my LSM essay, I showed a focus on my passion for chemistry and what I hoped to do in the pharmaceutical/med realm by participating in LSM.
BUT for my “Why Penn?” essay, I showed AN ALSO AUTHENTIC but COMPLETELY UNRELATED interest in transforming the field of education…
I guess the common thread in both is my intended study of management, but will admissions officers find this to be inconsistent and unauthentic?

I just genuinely have a wide spectrum of interests, and IF I get LSM, I will pursue the goals I discussed in that essay. If I don’t get LSM, I still hope to achieve what I mentioned, but I also hope to tackle the other passions and projects I’ve mentioned in my “Why Penn” essay.

My interview is coming up, and I hope to clear up any inconsistency at that point, but I don’t think that will have much weightage. I just don’t want to be automatically rejected bc I accidentally may come off as fake…

Anyone in a similar situation or know how admissions officers will view this???
HELP I’M HAVING SEVERE ANXIETY ABOUT THIS ALL…

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It is not odd to be passionate about more than one thing. At Penn, it is fairly common. Ability to explore broad interests are a common reason that top students choose Penn.

I think you can just say that honestly.

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^^ Chill out. @Much2learn is 100% correct. What you don’t want to do is convey “severe anxiety” when you interview. Be honest and natural, but also be confident. I hope the caps don’t translate to how you come across in person. Just relax.