Pitt officially is moving away from pure merit

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Pittsburgh
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@kitzmcatz, No, I don’t push my kids, I focus only on making sure that they stay relaxed and dont overdo it. But by nature, they are self driven, focused and hard working. I believe all high achieving kids are like that.

I agree with you, our IS university is very good. But kids have their own ambitions and aspirations. My older one had every credential to get into her first choice school which was a top private university. But we couldn’t do ED because we are full pay. Their acceptance rate is 30% for ED and 5% RD. Unable to take advantage of ED is another handicap for kids from donut hole families. She got into her second choice which is one of the top 3 public universities. We had to let it go because without merit aid, we couldn’t afford it. It came down to our IS university where she got full tuition and Pitt which gave her generous merit aid. She picked Pitt over IS because she thought their reputation in medical research , proximity of UPMC and Pitt medical school would open more doors for her. So we enrolled her at Pitt where she is very happy. But without merit aid from Pitt she would have to do “settle” for IS.

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“Sacrificed” for 12 years? Really, what did your child give up as a 3rd grader to stay at the top of the heap? Even in high school, what choice did he make that was a sacrifice? Did he take an AP class just to get into Harvard or did he take the AP class because it was the class that was the best level for him? “Settle for public school” (which of course Pitt is too)? I don’t think students are settling for UVa, Georgia Tech, UCLA, Michigan, Ohio State or Texas but choosing them because they are great schools. I had two kids who were in the same grade. I’d come downstairs on a Sunday morning and find one doing math and chemistry homework before she went off for a day of sports while the other was in bed. Which one do you think had more choices when it came to college? Both had the same (very limited) budget, but they had different choices because of the effort. That’s the reward, choices.

I don’t think it is fair to blame Pitt for changing its financial aid structure. Several people above admitted they were using Pitt as a ‘safety.’ What school wants to be the safety just in case something better doesn’t come along? The school has new management and is changing things up to attract the students it needs to serve.

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I think it’s an excellent move. I’ve known too many students living local to Pittsburgh who could not afford to attend this great school in their backyards. Tuition , books and other unavoidable expenses brings the price tag up over $20k for commuters. Pitt was not focused in making it financially possible for these kids to do it.

One of the rationales I got for the great Pitt gap between need and fin aid even for its own state residents, was that Pitt is not a state school as most US state schools are. It was also justification for its focus OOS, looking forward high stats talent and trying to bring them in with great merit money while not bothering to address the fact that they are an inner city school that could be a beacon of light for those who look up at that great Cathedral of Learning every day.

I’m not a fan of USNews adding that PELL component as part of their rankings, but I think in the case of Pitt, if this is a consequence, great.

I’m not all that sympathetic to those losing a safety school especially when they have their own state school as a possibility.

There is no telling how this is going to play out for this year’s admissions. This appears to be a late breaking decision so likely a lot of voices in house opposing it.

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I don’t believe that every OOS kid treats Pitt as a safety, certainly not mine. Having said that every kid will have a couple of safety schools on their list depending on their stats because admission is not guaranteed for anyone in any school. I am sure the kids for whom Pitt is #1 choice, would apply to temple or penn state as a safety/alternative because Pitt cannot accept everyone that applies. There is nothing wrong

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The Pell Grant match program seems to bring the net cost of Pitt to the same level as the net cost at a PASSHE school for a $0 EFC student.

Pitt A&S costs about $30,000 for tuition, fees, room and board for undergraduate instate student.

Maximum Pell Grant for $0 FAFSA EFC is $6,195 and match would be another $6,195. Maximum state grant for state related schools is $3,772 I believe and the freshman direct loan $5,500.

That’s $21,662

So gap is $8,338

IUP 15 credits undergraduate instate is about $25,000 tuition, fees, room and board.

Maximum Pell Grant for $0 FAFSA EFC is $6,195 and maximum state grant for PASSHE is $3,518, plus freshman direct loan $5,500.

That’s $15,213

So gap is $9,787

I thought the Pell Grant match program was to help lower income students bridge the cost gap.

I have not heard that pure merit would be eliminated.

Pitt also meets all need for valedictorians and salutatorians who are Pell eligible from Pittsburgh area high schools I believe.

https://oafa.pitt.edu/pps/

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The referenced article is not official Pitt communication, correct?

Only about 2% of applicants have received full tuition in the past.

Merit at Pitt has historically been more generous than at many OOS peer institutions.

I would like the emphasis be placed on making PA colleges more affordable for high stats or low income instate students, rather than OOS.

47

How could Pitt or any OOS school be considered to be a financial “safety” for a student when merit is not assured?

Pitt does not give automatic merit like UA.

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Pitt was certainly not a safety school for my kid. It was a cliffhanger first choice and no merit in the picture.

It’s a great school for families who find the costs of private schools approaching (and even exceeding) the $80k a year mark, but find that their state schools are not great matches for their kids. Most kids are not going to get a whole lot of merit money either. Pitt fit into our kids’ lists well

Oakland is a main transportation hub and Pittsburgh gives free bus passes to its college students, so it’s a wonderful opportunity for those in the Greater Pittsburgh area to have Pitt as an affordable commuter choice. Most PELL Eligible kids I’ve known commute. Getting enough money to pay for sleep away school is not easy. I’m all for Pitt becoming more accessible to those who need financial aid to go there

It would come at some cost of getting kids with top stats, however. Though not guaranteed, Pitt was a real contender in the big merit awards searches.

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As I was saying in the above post, Pitt is a top commuter choice for those living in the Greater Pittsburgh area. Being a city of About 300,000 people, ( much more still within reasonable commuting distance) there a plenty of students for whom this would a top choice, if affordable.

For an instate commuter, cost would be about $20k. That’s pretty danged high, IMO More than double NY state school tuition which can be covered by PELL and state grants, as well Direct Student loans. If Pitt made more of an effort in meeting full need, it could make a big difference to those who need the money most to be able to go there

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Our IS flagship public school is one of the top destinations for a lot of OOS kids including PA. Their computer science and engineering programs are highly regarded. In fact their CS program is ranked above a couple of ivy schools. For many top PA kids who couldn’t get into Carnegie Mellon CS program, our IS school is their next destination. I welcome everyone of those OOS kids. Because they are our kids too, they are just from another state not different country. If other state schools welcome and accept our kids, we have to, and happy to reciprocate the same gesture.

When it comes to merit aid, our school offers roughly two times in merit money to OOS kids compared to IS kids with similar credentials. I would not call it unfair because I understand that to bring down the COA for those highly deserving OOS kids to an attractive level, they have to offer more money because the difference in tuition for IS and OOS is high. I welcome this too.

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Pitt a safety? From my experience, Pitt has never been the most difficult school when it comes to admissions as long as the student has decent stats.(28 + ACT and 3.7 + gpa) Merit is another matter. You really have to have the top stats in order to be considered (33 + and 4.0 GPA) for any kind of Merit. If you go back to all the admissions post for the past 5 years, you can actually see the trends and how difficult it is to get money from Pitt. For those students with these top stats (Percentage-wise, very few out there) there are much much better financial choices to consider when it comes to merit. Even from schools similarly ranked and even higher ranked.

D18 applied to Pit and got absolutely nothing. Not even a pen! LOL! She was very fortunate to have many excellent options (Go Buckeyes! ) so the lack of love from Pitt did not discourage her. My S20 is currently going through the process right now and Pitt would actually be a much much better fit. However, even with his higher stats and perhaps better profile, he is not even considering the school. The lack of merit is an issue when better options are available.

Merit or no merit. In-state or Out-state. Private or Public. We can probably all agree, the cost of attending college is ridiculous. I have attended numerous school tours and admissions presentations to see how the marketing machine works. All the schools like to spin whatever information they want to put out there. "We are ranked number 12 in Accounting or nursing or the graduation rate for first-year students is 65 percent in 4 years or 70 percent in 6 years… Retaining rates. voted number 3 by… " blah, blah, blah… By the end of the day, the majority of us can not afford $30K to $60K a year to send one kid to college. How about 2 or 3?

Pitt was never that generous, to begin with. Whatever changes they make, it will probably help those with no money which is a very noble thing to do. However, Donut holes families will continue to get squeezed out with the way the current system is set up. People should not feel entitled or assume anything during the process. There will be plenty of surprises (good and bad). Proper planning and research will lead to the right decision. My S20 has his “dream schools and perfect fits” and he knows darn well that we have our “$ schools”. He understands his dreams must be “inclusive” of many schools.

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@1917souci , Pitt was no safety for my crew—maybe could have been for my youngest, but certainly not for the others. But Pitt IS a safety for many in the greater a Pittsburgh area or in the state of PA.

We are talking about excellent students who still fall short of getting substantial merit money. As expensive as PA’s 3 major state universities are (Temple, PSU, Pitt—and, yes, I know they are not truly state schools like most major state universities are), those excellent schools are still the best name recognition options for many Pennsylvanians. Temple, does not seem to get the clamor, but Pitt and PSU are very often high on kids’ lists as college destinations in PA.

There was a time, Pitt was generous with merit money, very generous, and PSU was not, but in the last 8-10 years, I’ve noted PSU handing out some $4-8k scholarships that puzzled me , to students who are not the top of the top. I saw the impact of that when one cousin pretty much HAD to go to PSU over James Madison and other preferred OOS schools because that $6 k scholarship she got made a huge difference to the family when added to the couple thousand dollars extra cost that would have been incurred and maybe absorbed by the family due to those other schools being OOS. The little scholarship was a dealbreaker and whoever came up with that idea was shrewd enough to understand the impact.

Also as I’ve mentioned several times, those who live in a commutable distance from Pitt, can save costs that way. Pitt also has going in its favor, location in a very affordable area. Oakland is the ultimate student ghetto, and I say this with affection. You can live very cheaply there. Many kids who start out as commuters end up in some sort of apartment shade, find part or even full time jobs in Oakland and become part of the integral scene of Pitt.

What Pitt will lose in diverting merit money funds to financial aid are those kids who are looking for near full rides and have top grades and test scores. I know many many students who are in that predicament. Parents, due to any number of reasons, can’t pay much for college and they don’t qualify for financial aid. I’ve seen a lot of divorce situations that come to that. If you live in a state that does not give much merit money at the state Schools, you either commute to whatever is local or look for a school that will give you the money that makes it possible to go away to school. Pitt was one of those schools that had full ride and full tuition scholarships. Not as many as they used to have, but enough that those with good numbers stood a chance of getting enough to make it possible. Couple that with an affordable environment for upper class years and you got a good deal. These kids can not afford full price Pitt, or have better options than that. I haven’t looked at the latest Common Data sets to see how many students get merit money, so I don’t know what the impact will be. Of course, we don’t know how much merit money will be diverted to financial aid either. I don’t think Pitt is going to go pure need based aid, no merit money

Although I believe that getting OOS talent is great for state schools, it’s a problem when too many instate kids are shut out. Especially if finances are the reason with too much of the college’s resources are invested in buying OOS bodies.

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@NOVA2024 - as another NOVA parent, I feel you! Although I’m not counting on any merit or financial aid from anywhere, the cost of any college is prohibitive at any level. Considering the over enrollment at VT, the are recommending ED if you want a shot at attending. It’s crazy!

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I graduated from Pitt as a commuter eons ago back when you could earn tuition at your summer job with a little cushion. Things were so different back then, but Pitt was always stingy as I had pretty decent stats for back then and got nothing.

S20 has better, but not 1500 stats and wants to major in mechanical engineering. Other than a relatively new program at Ship, there are no public options in PA other than the state related. With a sticker of over 30K at Pitt and PSU in state, we started looking west. Many of the OH publics are less expensive than Pitt/PSU on sticker price, and the same thing applies to the directionals and other state schools in MI. Throw in merit aid there and it can get to half price or lower very quickly. We’re well above Pell level but way below full pay. There is no help for us in state and no chance S20 will be attending my alma mater.

He couldn’t commute to Pitt for what he could stay at schools in OH and MI, and frankly it’s not even close. They may not be ranked as high as Pitt, but for an undergrad ABET degree, they’ll be fine and many of them have very strong engineering programs, unlike PA.

We have terrible management of our higher education in PA.

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It is incredibly unfortunate how you guys in PA have very few cost-effective options when it comes to your flagship Universities. The cost of instate is more than what the cost would be to go OOS assuming you are able to secure some merit from some fine Universities. Very similar to what is happening in Illinois which explains how Alabama has become a sexy destination.

@cptofthehouse I did not mean to say a safety as far as admissions or merit. I meant to say that Pitt is not the most difficult school to get in assuming one has decent stats. However, merit is very difficult to attain unless you are tops. Basically, if you are looking for a school with a decent amount of merit, Pitt will or Penn State for that matter are not the place.

For sure great schools, but the lack of merit will steer OOS prospects away and for sure affect those donut hole in-state applicants who are not going to have an affordable Flagship option.

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Pennsylvania Engineering Schools
https://educatingengineers.com/states/pennsylvania

ABET in PA
http://main.abet.org/aps/Accreditedprogramsearch.aspx

We do not have terrible management of higher education in PA. We have terrible support by the state legislature. Big difference. Funding for the PASSHE schools is at the same $ amount it was 20 years ago. Percentage decrease, not increase. Students at PASSHE pay 80% today and in the early 1990’s it was 20% of tuition. PASSHE did not increase tuition this year to state that they were “student first”…we will see how that plays out.
http://www.passhe.edu/News/Pages/Releases.aspx?q=7-10-tuitionfreeze&fbclid=IwAR0FNX25DqSxGRR_sgOcsnEyAXz_KApScK-J2di4BrNA7_ikkFbSgu8wBmE

PSU has a billion dollar endowment yet it costs a resident $35-37,000/year to attend. On top of that…they take non residents ahead of residents.
https://www.pennlive.com/politics/2016/02/penn_state_other_colleges_with.html

Auditor General DePasquale Says Penn State Shows Some Progress Since Sandusky Scandal; Background Checks Still Missing, Tuition Growth Outrageous
https://www.paauditor.gov/press-releases/auditor-general-depasquale-says-penn-state-shows-some-progress-since-sandusky-scandal-background-checks-still-missing-tuition-growth-outrageous

Residents of the Commonwealth need to speak with their vote. Some people have said that we have " Philadelphia in the East, Pittsburgh in the West and Alabama in between".

Having said that…look what Alabama does for Higher Education and their flagship.

57

Hi @parentologist

Point of clarification: the Inside Higher Ed article highlighted one of many of Pitt’s affordability initiatives. Pitt still has merit awards. To be automatically considered for merit awards, students need to apply by December 15. The Pitt Success Pell Match is a part of a larger affordability initiative to make a Pitt education attainable for more students. Learn more about all of them at affordability.pitt.edu

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Hi @carachel2

Pitt is actually still offering merit scholarships! Just apply for admission by December 15 to be automatically considered. The Pitt Success Pell Match is one of many affordability programs that have been put in place recently. Learn more about all of the Pitt programs at affordability.pitt.edu

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Hi @OHMomof2

Good news – Pitt continues to offer merit awards! Students applying by December 15 will receive full consideration. The Inside Higher Ed article highlighted the new Pitt Success Pell Match initiative, one of many affordability programs launched during the past several years, all of which can be found at affordability.pitt.edu. These new initiatives are all in addition to merit awards.

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Hi @chmcnm

The Inside Higher Ed article highlighted one of many of Pitt’s affordability initiatives. Pitt still has merit awards. To be automatically considered for merit awards, students need to apply by December 15. The Pitt Success Pell Match is a part of a larger affordability initiative to make a Pitt education attainable for more students. Learn more about all of them at affordability.pitt.edu