<p>As long as all the schools Junior is interested in offer merit aid, I’d let her go ahead and apply with the understanding that she may receive financial rejections. Also, what schools are her friends really going to attend? My guess is quite a few of them will be at state school. We live in an area where few people qualify for financial aid. Kids apply all over the place and then many of them end up attending local schools like Drexel, Temple, and St. Joe’s where the parents are usually paying less than they would if their kid had gotten into Penn State. Many of these kids even commute one or more semesters. It’s my experience that while some full pay families will make an expensive school happen if they believe their kid has earned it one way or another, for many of them, particularly those with more or less average kids, there is no way they’re forking over 60k+ per year when there is a perfectly decent <30k option. </p>
<p>I’m sure you know all this, but perhaps it’s just a matter of time. Once Junior’s friends start facing the music, Junior will too.</p>
<p>If it were me (and hugs to you- this is one of those “earn your parenting wings” issues) I’d extricate myself and the emotion out of the situation.</p>
<p>It sounds as though you are neutral on where the kid ends up, correct? Not like s/he needs to be close by to monitor an ongoing medical issue, or because s/he’s in rehab.</p>
<p>So I’d throw it back to my kid. I’d sit down with a spreadsheet which showed my college budget- 5K per year from a college savings account, 10K per year out of current income, 3K per year from theoretical summer earnings and 2K per year from an on-campus job (obviously your numbers will vary) and I’d say, “This is your budget. Go explore where you want to go, where you can get in, and what you can afford. We are your parents and we want to help you achieve your goals”.</p>
<p>And then back off. Kid is a junior. You have some time. Maybe doing the research will show the kid that an extra 100 points on the SAT will make some merit happen- and that it’s not a good idea to stay out with friends on a Friday night when you’ve got the SAT’s the next day- and oh by the way mom and dad- I’ll be home late every Monday since I’m attending the SAT tutoring class at the local public libary (ours has one- and they charge only for the prep book, not the ridiculous $80/hour deal the private classes charge). Maybe doing the research will show that a neighboring state has a tuition reciprocity program and the kid would rather be in Delaware than Maryland (or whatever your situation is). Maybe the kid will march into the math teacher’s class on Tuesday and ask for a sit down- and for help on a plan to take his B- grades to an A by the end of the year. And maybe kid will decide that playing tennis all summer and working on the tan (or even just spending two weeks at Christmas playing Candy Crush) could be swapped for a job at the mall or babysitting or house-sitting in exchange for cold hard cash- to start his/her own college fund.</p>
<p>I’d back off. Way too early to be dealing with this, and make your kid have some input, take some ownership, rather than walking out of the room feeling like “Dad won’t pay for Villanova. I hate my dad”. Then it’s more like, “let me figure out where I can afford to attend. Sucks that dad won’t pay for Villanova, but maybe I can get a merit scholarship at Fairfield or Providence or High Point”.</p>
<p>And hugs. I totally get where you are coming from. But why trigger WW3? Get your kid to start identifying schools which are within the budget you’ve provided and get out of the middle.</p>
<p>Has Junior actually visited/spent any time at the schools that are affordable? If not, look into the possibility of spending a weekend on campus. Seeing first-hand all that a campus can offer might get him/her excited.</p>
<p>Identify some schools that are in your range financially and academically for this student, and then start showing them off. Go to events at that school, see if there are any camps or classes she can attend at those schools this summer. Start selling the schools. My daughter was iffy on a particular school. Too big (not), not diverse, cold. We then visited in the fall and she fell in love. The staff in her major treated her like a princess, she discovered there were clubs she was interested in, she like fraternity/sorority row, liked the outdoor programs. She felt welcomed. I was worried the school couldn’t live up to her expectations but it has. She’s playing a club sport, joined a sorority, has found a very international flavor to the school (although it is very very white). The dorm is old and not that nice, it is cold, but she is just as happy as can be.</p>
<p>I think it is hard when other kids (and their parents) act like anything other than an Ivy or top LAC is the equivalent of being in the dumb class, and it’s especially hard when your kid would actually like to go to one of those schools. My daughter really didn’t care what others thought. We visited with friends and the daughter is a year older than mine, so already had started school. All they could talk about was that her school was a ‘top tier’ and how they didn’t know anyone else who got into a top tier this year, blah blah blah. I asked her what groups she was involved in. None. What was her roommate like? Didn’t have one. What activities she did? Only dinner at her religious house once a week. You could tell that they thought my daughter’s choice of school was just so beneath them, but as I said, my daughter just doesn’t care what others thinks. I don’t understand going to a ‘top tier’ if you don’t get involved with the activities of the school. Who cares if Harvard has great lecturers or art shows if you don’t go?</p>
<p>You’ll also find that there is a lot of talk junior/senior year about the big schools, how ‘everyone’ is going to Vassar and Harvard and Penn State and Michigan. In the end, many will go to State U (which might be Michigan). Honestly, at least 5 kids my kids went to school with were off to the Top Tier world, and all are at state schools right near home. Many of my nephew’s friends who went to OOS privates and publics are coming home after spending less than a semester at the fancy schools with the special dorms and climbing walls.</p>
<p>A lot of this seems to be about wanting your kid to have different feelings than he/she has.</p>
<p>But that doesn’t seem fair. People feel what they feel.</p>
<p>You can explain reality. You can help your kid find as many affordable choices as possible. You can try to “sell” affordable schools. But you can’t make your kid like this or any other situation.</p>
<p>This sounds like a kid who could go to Penn State, but is dying to go to GWU instead. He or she should realize that champagne kids go to state schools too - and no matter where he or she goes, he or she will probably find those kids and gravitate towards them if those are the kinds of kids he or she is used to being around. There are many reasons that champagne kids go to beer schools, and in the Penn State/GWU case, it might be because Penn State has the superior program for their major, but in some cases it is parents who are unwilling to pay for more, or families with large numbers of children who may live on the Main Line but don’t want to spend $200k per kid at a B-student champagne school.</p>
<p>^^ True, but the parents don’t really have to listen to the whining and enjoy that either. There is a point when you just say to daughter that you’ve laid out all the options and she has to pick. If she wants to be miserable, that’s her choice but she needs to keep those feelings to herself. I do like the idea of this coming from the sibling who also had to pick a school within the budget.</p>
<p>I think young people feel like this mainly because of peer pressure in a community like yours, and often also from the culture of adults in the school. These values and “wants” can be absorbed by osmosis. I hope you can stop blaming your kid. (To be honest, your judgments come through loud and clear and must at home too.)</p>
<p>Taking a tour of a state school can do wonders, but if the crowd at school looks down on it, you may still hear grumbling.</p>
<p>A few years back a friend of mine had the same problem with their daughter. Her grades were not great and neither were their finances: the daughter was clearly headed to a state college. We talked and suggested that she apply to some privates, see what offers came in, and then at least she would have something to talk about at lunch like the others. She felt great when she got some need-based aid at a couple of small privates, but ended up at the state college anyway and loved it. The important things were, one, that she could be part of the peer discussion of choices, and, two, that she actually have the feeling that she was, indeed, choosing.</p>
<p>A bit of sleight of hand maybe but it worked.</p>
<p>Op,
Your kid’s attitude might be due to peer pressure. My D went to an expensive private school where there was much peer (and staff?) pressure to attend private college. Her friend got accepted to UC berkeley and her friend was just so upset and depressed. Once they end up going and they see the kids there, they realize that their preconceived notions were wrong and then they can enjoy their college experience. My D is still so shocked how wrong they all were, but you can try to explain it all to them until you are blue in the face, but often they won’t listen to you and will just learn it themselves.</p>
<p>So bottom line, I would just say to an unappreciative kid… “tough for you but basically I don’t want to hear any complaining from you.” </p>
<p>Hi OP. I think it’s great that you’re having this discussion now with Kid, while Kid is a junior. We are not rich but our sons attended a fairly pricey private Catholic high school. When the guys were juniors, we sat them down and showed them the math. This is what Mom and Dad can afford. If you are accepted somewhere more costly, this is still what Mom and Dad can afford. YOU will have to make up the shortfall, since we are not doing Parent Plus loans etc. Put it in writing if you like, tape it to the wall next to Kid’s desk. Both of our guys took the message to heart. They both applied to financial safeties, but both ended up attending private universities. </p>
<p>S1 was just a B student, but he got lucky with a partial athletic scholarship, and some merit money, too. Still he did take out a loan which he alone is repaying now that he has graduated and is working full time in his field.</p>
<p>S2 was an A student, and merit awards covered the difference between state college and the private he attends.</p>
<p>I also want to offer some hope – it’s amazing how much they can grow up between junior and senior year of high school. </p>
<p>Some colleges have a high degree of volunteering. Heshe may not have a huge interest in it but if the “crowd’s” doing it then maybe your kid would also get exposure to what he/she’s been given and in turn, get a deeper understanding of what’s important in life. If the high school has a Key Club or other volunteer organization, I’d highly recommend a nudge in that direction. Seeing the other side may help him/her get it about what’s important in selecting a college. Hint: it’s not clothes and cars.</p>
<p>Lots of fine talk among the parents and students at Happkid’s old high school, but every single year the single largest group of grads went straight to our local community college. If might help you if you get the real numbers from the school’s guidance office. I’m betting that a fair number of the grads end up at cheap state Us (and even community colleges). If whiny kid learns who ended up at which state U, some of the state Us might stop looking so bad.</p>
<p>I have two sons, and what I did to/for them was a clothing allowance. Every year in August or a month before school started I gave them several hundred dollars. Since they are boys, they received $350.00. They were in charge of buying all of their clothes for the year with that money. Shoes, underwear, PJs, pants, shorts, shirts, etc. They couldn’t be in rags and had to be dressed appropriately for the weather. If they chose and spent wisely, any money left over was theirs to keep. You have not seen more frugal boys. They of course asked what if they ran out of money? They were told to save their receipts and their purchases would be reviewed, if they made wise choices we would evaluate if they needed more money. I did this with each boy from the time they were 13 or 14 years old. They NEVER ran out of money. Older son, 26, now owns his own home and is a foreman in the construction trades. It worked well for us. Good luck.</p>
<p>I think if she is a junior and she has already shown you her academic abilities, it is pretty cut and dried, no? She must know where she stands in comparison with her friends, academically? It is impossible that a kid of that age does not hear the message about further education, if she is not going to qualify for merit then she has no choice. End of conversation. Don’t drag in the better sibling, that is fuel for the fire. If she has not excelled in her privileged position thus far, there is no come to jesus moment coming. </p>
<p>Agree with reply #32 that teaching kids from an earlier age to be value conscious with spending money can go a long way to getting them to realize that things that they want often have cost constraints. However, it can be the case that some kids end up being reckless with spending despite all of the parental incentives to be careful (and despite having a sibling who took the lessons to heart and is frugal with spending).</p>
<p>The OP mentions that the budget is to pay for an instate public, but we all know different states have different COAs for their schools.</p>
<p>What state are you in? How much is the COA at your state schools?? $30k per year? more? less? </p>
<p>Your D wants to go to an OOS southern public and right now, her stats aren’t merit worthy. So, I’d put it onto her. You say that you’ll pay XX ($30k???), and she has to figure out the rest…work over summers, take out a fed student loan, work part-time during the school year, whatever. </p>
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<p>not necessarily. It’s all about choices. Sounds like she wants to pledge. Yes, that can add to the costs, but there are subtractions as well. Kids who eat in their Houses, don’t have the pricey meal plan. Kids who live in their Houses sometimes pay about the same as their dorm. </p>
<p>Some great advice here. I like the suggestion to get the real statistics from the high school guidance counselor about what schools the graduates end up going to. It’s very easy to get blinders on where you look only at a dozen or so students who are going to the schools you wish you could go to, and then say “but EVERYONE else is going to one of these schools!”</p>
<p>OP, I think what you said about the kid just wanting to be in a familiar environment makes sense. And that’s a very important criterion to look for in a college – it’s part of “fit.” But since you said she doesn’t seem to care about academic prestige, it sounds like a good “fit” might be a private school where she could get some merit aid but where the demographic would still be like what she’s used to.</p>
<p>In terms of your own frustration with her lack of gratitude, I think that’s something you’re just going to have to suck up, just like your daughter is going to have to suck it up about not getting to go to whatever school she has her heart set on. It is certainly exasperating to be paying so much for college and have your kid act like you’re giving them a half-used tube of toothpaste for their birthday. But just keep repeating to yourself, you’re not doing this for the gratitude, you’re doing it for your kid’s future. </p>
<p>I wonder if your daughter would come to the right decision if she was given a choice.</p>
<p>You could say something like, we can afford X for your college. This is enough to get you through a decent state school, or you can use it for a private school. It won’t cover your full costs there, so you’ll have to take out loans. We won’t take these loans out for you.</p>
<p>Then your daughter can explore her options.</p>
<p>Once she sees the costs of the privates, you can encourage her to calculate her monthly repayments. When she sees a repayment of several hundred to over a thousand a month, perhaps she’ll see things in a different light.</p>
<p>Interesting idea above, but often that approach leads to further expressions of resentment, about parental income, parental refusal to do loans and so on- regardless of the parents’ own financial status. But the idea of the daughter owning the process is a good one. She can go ahead and apply to privates as well as publics and see what happens. That way she will be doing what everyone else is doing, will not be operating under restrictions until the very end, and may even get a surprise in terms of aid. </p>
<p>Much better to see the actual cost after acceptance rather than before applying, in other words, and there may be unexpected offers.</p>
<p>It’s the harsh reality of being in the middle class. We live in an area where there are very well-off families as well, whose kids lack or want for nothing: cars, vacations, clothes, etc. We are not in this income category and never will be, but we have lived here in this community in a modest house, for the past 20+ years because the schools are excellent etc. We have told both of our Ds what the budget reality is.</p>
<p>We have helped them identify colleges that are a good fit both academically and financially. They are free to choose whatever school they want to go to, knowing full well that mom and dad will contribute X dollars, their savings from work will contribute X dollars, and any scholarship or FA will cover X dollars. Anything above that and they are on their own, and they know that LOUD AND CLEAR. We will not be taking parent loans for them. They will have to take the loans themselves if they so choose this route. Then we take them through the 10-20 year loan repayment schedule for a big dose of reality. </p>
<p>This process has not been a pity party for either of them and they are not boo hoo-ing about what their reality is. Fortunately we have incredibly grateful and academically stellar kids. Additionally, we are small business owners and our kids have grown up with the ups and downs of “cash flow”, and how to live in lean times without going into debt. (Believe, me there have been lots of lean times).</p>
<p>Currently, D#1 is a soph at an elite university in which she got a huge scholarship and grant, which makes this much less expensive for us than if she were to attend our state school. Good on her! D #2 is a senior in HS and we are hoping for the same outcome for her. Either way, were are not too stressed, as D #2 knows the drill when it comes to paying for college! I’m sure she will make the right choice.</p>