My son recently sent his mid season video highlights to several Ivy football recruiters who requested his film after he attended their summer camps. Our hope was to get an offer or two by the end of the summer, but it did not happen, and they requested senior film instead. He is in the top band (AI>220) for all of the Ivies that are considering him. IMO he “won the day” at his position in a couple of the camps, but is still “on the bubble.”
I have found the whole idea of mid season senior film to be odd as not many D1 recruits commit in the Oct/Nov time frame. They typically commit before or after the football season. I have seen a few more Ivy football offers go out and commitments made, but the rate now is much lower than that of the late summer. I suspect that coaches are hoping that recruits or even commits take the SAT or ACT one more time to get better scores and move up a band level or two. I am sure the coaches review the film too, but it is not the only post-summer criterion they consider.
The feedback my son has received from the Ivies post-senior film has been mixed. Some are positive in tone, while others are neutral. All told however, none have them have said “yes” or “no.” One recruiter was clear, “be patient with us.”
In the meantime, my son has received offers from several prestigious D3 schools. Some have said that the offer expires with the ED deadline, while others have been less specific. All along, my son has been clear he is waiting on Ivy feedback and most D3 coaches have been understanding, but said that they can’t hold on to his roster slot for much longer.
As the ED deadlines approach, we are playing the waiting game. Any thoughts on how to get greater transparency from the Ivy coaches as to where my son stands on the recruiting board? Is it common for Ivy football coaches to fill the last of their 30 roster spots in December or January with top band kids to fulfill their band distribution requirements? At this point, it seems like we can either apply RD to several Ivy and D3 schools and take our chances or apply ED to one D3 school and close the process.
For Ivy football, @Ohiodad51 gives great advice. Reading between the lines, looks like your son has great academics but is not a top priority football-wise. The Ivy schools seem to be stringing you out and waiting to see where their dominos fall before deciding whether they have a Likely Letter for your son. Lots of factors here. Might have better school-sports balance at a top academic D3 and also get more playing time/have more impact on the field. @Ohiodad51 can clarify, but I recall that Ivy football recruiting can continue beyond ED/SCEA deadline since some players have big senior years and other top recruits can drop as the school year progresses.
I agree with @Sunny66. He is not at the top of the board. Has he reached out and ask for admissions support and a roster spot ? Tell him not to be afraid to ask directly. Most if not all will answer frankly. Email the coach, position coach and the assistant coaches.
Also ED commitment is important for the top tier DIII but know if you do not agree with the FA package it is not binding. You do not withdraw any applications from other schools until he is accepted and FA package is complete. This will take you well into January for most schools. The ED can be withdrawn at any time up until the release date.
As I am are sure you know, a top tier college education while playing football is as good as it gets.
@HPTD12, given its already mid-October, it’s sounds like a top D3 ED Commitment is the best path as those that are still in the hunt for Ivy spots in January will likely be D1 recruits that have high AI’s but maybe not a top FBS D1 prospect.
Thanks for all of the advice. I agree that he might have a better school-sports balance at a top academic D3 and also get more playing time. I have tried to cajole him to apply to an Ivy EA/ED anyway based on his academics, but he is intent on playing football wherever he goes and he does not want to walk on. And we are inclined to believe that no Ivy will provide any additional consideration for football outside of the 30 allocated roster spots.
I am a big fan of @Ohiodad51 . His posts have been very helpful in understanding the process, from initial recruiting, through the camps to receiving offers.
My sense is that there is a big trickle down effect based on where D1 players with Ivy offers eventually commit. There is a lot of crossover across Ivies for some positions. So if a kid with 5 Ivy offers goes to another D1 league, all active recruits move up a spot on the board across those 5 schools, which could trigger multiple offers. All of this of course is more complicated with the band system. I do not get a sense(and perhaps I am wrong), that kids with Ivy offers are under significant pressure to commit before EA/ED deadlines. Instead the National Letter of Intent day is essentially their deadline. And that creates the conundrum for kids like mine who have D3 offers and are hoping for Ivy offers. All of this is conjecture on my part as I have no experience with this.
Hey @HPTD12, I wish I had a silver bullet for you, but I think you are generally reading the situation correctly. Each school wants the very best talent they can get for their program, so there are going to be a number of kids right now with Ivy offers who are also being seriously recruited by places like Duke, Vandy and Northwestern, along with “regular” D1 schools. At the same time, the slice of kids with both the desire and the athletic/academic chops to play in the Ivy is pretty thin, so there are a lot of kids with multiple Ivy offers, who can all obviously play at only one school. Add in the kids who are on the bubble academically, and it becomes a very complicated dance for the schools right now. The same is of course true in the NESCAC, and all those schools are sitting on kids (like my son) who have current Ivy offers or (like yours) who are perceived as having a legitimate shot at one. Another under appreciated data point is how desirable are the schools in the mix perceived to be relative to their athletic peers? Being second or third on the board at Harvard or Princeton tells you something different than being second or third on the board at Brown or Cornell. I hope that makes sense.
For these reasons, it is important to remember that boards at all levels are fluid. My guess from what you have posted is that the Ivies talking to your son have guys they like more who they have either already offered or where they are waiting on another round of test results to see if a more favored guy can jump into a higher band. There is no shame in that, and it happens to all but the very elite. My son was fortunate to have several schools in the Ivy league who wanted him. He also had some flirtations with Duke and Northwestern. He is a solid Ivy varsity player, likely would have been an athletic outlier in the NESCAC, and would have got chewed up and spit out in the BIG or ACC. His former high school teammate now playing at Vandy who had his pick of the Ivy schools would have been a day one starter and likely multi year all Ivy guy. There is always a bigger fish. Try and remember your son is already in very rarified territory to maybe have a shot to play in the Ivy, and to have already earned the opportunity to play at some excellent D3 academic schools. Very few can do that.
Unfortunately this situation may not clarify before the ED1 deadlines, because you are also correct that there is no “ED or else” pressure in the Ivy. So the trick with the Ivy schools in the mix is to try and figure out how deep down the board your son is. Being the “next guy up” where they are waiting to see which way a kid with a half a dozen offers jumps is very different than being in a situation where you are hearing “you are one of the guys we are considering”, or “there are a couple guys we like better.” Know what I mean? On the NESCAC/D3 side, the question is how badly do they want your son? Is he “the guy” at a particular school, where the coach may be willing to take the chance on holding an offer thru the ED1 round at least to see if he “slips thru the cracks” in the Ivy? In this respect your son’s academics probably are a huge help, because he is likely an above the line recruit (stats above the median of the last admitted class) and a coach doesn’t need to save a lot of “juice” to get him in in a later round.
The task then is to get that information. I would try to do that by asking some direct questions. In the Ivy - “can you tell me where I am on the board”, ““what can I do to earn an offer” and " under what circumstances do you see an offer being extended”. On the NESCAC/D3 side it is really simple. “What happens if I don’t decide before the ED1 deadline” and maybe most crucially, “Will you support me if I do not commit until the ED2 date”. I think the ED2 date for schools that have it is an under appreciated safety net in the NESCAC particularly, because one way or another I think it is very likely you will know where your son stands after the official visit weekends in the Ivy, which I believe are still generally the three weekends after Thanksgiving.
Best of luck, and any further questions, sing out.
Thanks @Ohiodad51. Really appreciate your perspective.
On the D3 side (including some NESCACs as you correctly guessed), my son was given offers soon after the Ivy camps and in at least one case was the first defensive offer. And he is indeed an “above the line recruit,” which suggests that we may have some staying power beyond ED.
Thanks for the suggested language for both the Ivy and D3 recruiting conversations. He reached out to the Ivy recruiters with language similar to what you suggested.
Is your sense that there will be a lot of movement on Ivy commitments following the official visit weekends in Dec.?
Yes, I think that is correct. I think from here we are past the first wave of early commits, which are mostly kids like my son who want to be done with recruiting so they can focus on their senior year. As you noted above, classes will continue to slowly fill through the season, as options clarify for some kids, and as others make (or don’t) standardized test targets. As the season winds down, an educated guess is that maybe two thirds of each class is filled. I think the rest of the class fills out at the official visit weekends.
Quite honestly, there is not a ton of movement as we get towards Christmas. Schools are maybe holding one or two spots and focused on a bare handful of kids. But for 95%+ of the kids who will play in the Ivy, or really anywhere in D1, things are done by the holidays.
I meant to address this and forgot. I believe the reason coaches ask for some senior film (usually full game film as opposed to highlights in my experience), is because they have become intrigued enough by a recruit to actually study him, but still have some questions. So they will watch that film closely because they are looking for specific things, probably much more closely than they watch the highlight videos everybody makes and sends around.
Thanks for the feedback re timing of the last round of commits in Dec. At least that round is before the RD deadlines of Jan 1.
How do coaches get the full game film? I understand why they would want this, but all the recruits I have seen merely put up their mid-season senior highlights on HUDL.
^ I assume your son’s high school posts the all 22/end zone game film to his private hudl account? From there you send a link to the particular coach who asked for it.
And yeah, I think your son will likely be done by Jan 1, one way or another. There are some situations where balls are still in the air in January so it does happen. But it is pretty rare.
FWIW, if son is on the bubble for all the Ivies and not on anyone’s yes list yet, he may want to think about where he will stand on the team once he gets there. It may mean he is a 4 year backup/practice guy. Or not, but just something to think about. And he may be fine with that. Lots of guys are role players, and a team needs them. But he has probably been “the guy” or at least one of them, since flag football in elementary school. If he isn’t in that group as a freshman in the NESCAC, he probably will be by senior year if he is really a bubble player for the Ivy. He might be in the Ivies too. You probably have a better idea of that than I do, although if you are able to look at your own son with an unbiased judgement then you are ahead of me. Because some days I think my son is on track to be a D1 national champion, and others I am afraid he will be a permanent practice partner.
I’m going through a different but similar situation with my son (not football). He is being recruited by a few top D1 teams, along with several others. Obviously there is huge temptation to go to a top program, and he very well might. But I know him and I know he would not be happy being a backup. So one of the things he is looking at is what his odds are of being “the guy” on any of those teams. If he can really step up to that level, that’s where he wants to go. If not, then he wants to drop down a level. Fortunately there is a wide range of athletic competition in the Ivy League/comparable schools in his sport, and several of the coaches seem interested.
@dadof4kids is right on. It is very hard for us as parents to accurately asses our own child’s skill level under mout circumstances. Unless a kid is seeing regular premiere talent in practices and games, it is even harder for them. I can personally attest to that, because when I went to college a hundred years ago, I thought I could easily play at that level. It took me about thirty minutes of full to with the upperclassmen to learn otherwise, and I knew I would have to strap it up and work. Happens to a lot of guys.
There is an old saw that says you should play one level below where you think you can, and two levels below where your dad wants you to go. While football is definitely a sport where less highly recruited kids can “grind” their way to successful careers (just ask JJ Watt), it is best to go into it with eyes wide open, as far as is possible, to the challenge ahead. For some guys, the challenge is the whole point. For others, success, or even early success, may be more important. I think it is a good idea to talk about that kind of thing before making any decision.
Again - thanks for the great advice. Obviously no coach worth his or her salt can promise starting positions or playing time, but my son and I did talk to the head coaches of his top two D3 picks and they both implied that he would likely get some reps his freshman year - something that I think would be very doubtful in the Ivies. And he has the grades/scores to get into a lot of great schools without football, but he is intent on playing football in college. So yes, potential playing time is indeed another factor to ponder.
I think playing time is a big consideration if you are a player who really wants to play and not just use athletics as a way to get into the school. My daughter wanted to play and she looked at teams with an eye to how she compared to current team members.
In the end, she took a chance on a new program figuring she’d see playing time and she liked the school. Turned out much better than we imagined. She plays 100% of the time and they’ve won more than they’ve lost.
@HPTD12 I would weigh the schools and his desire to play. You mention that he has the grades to get into the top tier schools, but statistically it’s a lottery. If you take the top 20 schools and look at their RD admit rates there is not a single “easy” shot even with 1500+/35+ 4.0 stats without support - they are as dismal as 2% (or less).
Depending on the schools he is considering, he could always go SCEA/EA and then switch to an EDII if applicable and if coaches require.
Lastly, given the fact he is looking at IVY and other D3 academic powerhouses and has the stats for them, is it fair to say he is equally concerned with sports as he is academics.
If it is, and given the date and if he has no support, I would say he is best to tie up and commit to a sure thing.
Feel free to shoot me a pm if you want to share the specifics.
@fbsdreams thanks for the advice. Ultimately, he decided to commit to a D3 academic powerhouse. We asked his HS head coach to call a few of the recruiters to “shake the tree” a bit, which helped narrow down the list and try to get a better idea of where he stood. In the final analysis he had the option to stay on the board for 2 of the HYP schools or commit ED to a prestigious D3. Potential playing time was a factor. Very proud of the maturity he displayed in making the decision.