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[quote]
"When a student or parent asks us why they were not chosen, it's becoming increasingly difficult to say what they did not offer," said Lee Stetson, dean of admissions at the University of Pennsylvania, where applications rose by 11 percent. He reminds students that this year, Penn could take only one in 10 from the pool of regular applicants.</p>
<p>"The competition is incredible," said Frank Sansanelli, guidance counselor at Kennedy High School in Bellmore, where eight of nine University of Pennsylvania applicants were rejected, and all seven applicants to Washington University in St. Louis wait-listed.</p>
<p>Since admissions decisions were announced in the past month, irate parents have been calling principals and guidance counselors in several Long Island communities. They want to know why they pay some of the highest school taxes in the country, then find out that their children have been rebuffed by first-, second- and third-choice schools....</p>
<p>As for Northport's DiGirolamo, he was so devastated by his Ivy League shutout that at first he didn't appreciate the acceptance letters from Boston College, Holy Cross, Tufts and other backups. "I tried to brush off the rejections, because I knew admissions was going to be rough this year," DiGirolamo said. "But this was a blow to me and all of my friends who have been trying hard."...
So many people, especially on Long Island, get so caught up in this game of which school is ranked higher. I've realized that the college experience is what you make of it."
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<p>Precisely what I've been telling DD and any of her friends who have listened to me in the past few years.</p>
<p>p.s. the link actually jumps to page 2 of the article</p>
<p>Asteriska- Thanks for posting this- I just referred to this on another thread- This time of year in Metro NY area, there are ALWAYS articles about college admissions. Springfield mom is right- Your link is to page 2 of article. I got today's Newsday in front of me.
If you hit "previous", it takes you to beginning of article. There's a bit more in the paper- but you get the essence of it from this article!</p>
<p>Marny, Hi, its great to see your posts! I do think the second page is more interesting, because the first one is basically a rehash of so many media articles out there, but for those who need it, here is the direct link to the first page:</p>
<p>The article made me think of Robert Reich's piece in the Yale Alumni magazine "The Selectivity Squeeze", written in December, 2000. Most of the college admissions articles these days focus on the point that "most every high school has outstanding scholars who didn't make the brand-name cut" or didn't "make it" because they didn't get their first choice school - and often the reason given is because the student internally ranked his/her list in terms of reach- best fit and safety- less best fit. Well, it is harder to get into many elite colleges these days but in great part the psychological stress has a great deal to do with the fall-out of colleges marketing strategies as the place to be for "high school stars". If the "stars" apply and don't get in, rejection is connected to the disappointment of somehow not having gotten the golden ring, the validation, and the expected pay-off for such hard work during high school. I was particularly struck by the example of the student who had a hard time appreciating multiple acceptances from frankly phenomenal "dream schools" such as Boston College because he viewed them as lesser back-ups.</p>
<p>From the Newsday article:
[quote]
Counselors are busy assuring students that second- and third-choice colleges often work out for the best. In Bellmore, Sansanelli keeps a collection of two dozen coffee mugs from Cortland, Gettysburg, the University of Rhode Island and other colleges -- all sent by students who hadn't initially planned to go to those schools but ended up loving them.
<p>Timely article by Kevin Carey of the Education Sector: </p>
<p>
[quote]
The declining odds of getting into an elite college are mostly a statistical mirage, caused by confusion between college applicants and college applications.</p>
<p>From a student's perspective, the odds of getting into college are a function of two things: the number of qualified students who apply, and the number of slots that colleges make available....</p>
<p>When the number of applications grows faster than the number of applicants, it creates a false sense that admission standards are getting tighter. Imagine 20 students, each of whom applies to five schools and gets into two. Now imagine if the same students each applied to ten schools and got into two. The outcome for the students is the same: two acceptance letters. But the schools report lower admission rates, and the odds of admission seem worse.</p>
<p>This phenomenon is particularly pronounced in that hard-to-reach nirvana for striving parents and students: the Ivy League....
<p>I don't think that it is just a "statistical mirage" that it is now more difficult to get into the more selective and popular colleges. It is more difficult. Also the fact that there are more applications out there puts pressure on kids to apply to more schools. Statistically, if you are a realistic candidate for the ivies--no big surprise if accepted, big reaction when you are not--you will have a better chance of being accepted if you apply to more of them. Our neighbor's daughter applied to 20 colleges--only 2 matches and 1 safety. She got into the matches and safety and into 3 of her reach colleges. They did not make her top 5 choices, but one was out of her top 10 choices. Had she applied to 8 schools, she would not have gotten into any of her reach schools. Ironically one of the 3 reaches that accepted her was much more selective than a number of schools that waitlisted or rejected her. The family will be doing the same with their second child, feeling that this is a necessity to get into a "top" school and it is something important to them.</p>
<p>"Ironically one of the 3 reaches that accepted her was much more selective than a number of schools that waitlisted or rejected her."</p>
<p>That's becasues they really weren't more selective - they just rejected more applicants. (They were actually LESS selective, as the odds of their selecting the applicant who would gain most from their institution and then having that acceptee attend went down, not up.)</p>
<p>cptof the house.... if you are a realistic candidate for the Ivys but are dying to go to Dartmouth, applying to all of the Ivy's in no way makes you a more likely candidate for Dartmouth. That's the point others are trying to make.... applying to 20 colleges is a mind-boggling effort, imho. Why not put the effort into a few reaches where you are likely to go if accepted, and where you can really craft an effective application, rather than randomly apply to 20 schools which you can't possibly research effectively, in the hopes that one of these random apps pays out? What happens if you apply to 20 schools but don't get into any of the ones you wanted to go to? You're out all that dough and are still left with sub-optimal choices.</p>
<p>I guess that is the definition of selective, Mini. Knowing the schools, it was a bit of a surprise--not shocking, does happen, but a surprise.</p>
<p>We have two friends whose girls both applied to 6 schools. Accepted to two. Not their top choices. They feel a bit cheated as they are hearing of others in their D's schools that applied to many more and did get a bit of a bonanza. It isn't how many acceptances the kids get that give most people a good feeling. It;s getting into one of the top choices. </p>
<p>It's like stuffing the raffle box if you want a prize. It is not a guarantee you will get picked, but you sure as heck have a greater chance. Each year my boys' elem school does a raffle for Super Bowl tickets. We won them three years in a row by buying about 300 out of the 500 or so tickets sold. The two years we did not win, we won the third drawing which was for an NFL game in the area. I doubt we would have had such a streak had we not stuffed the raffle ticket box. </p>
<p>Clearly with the tens of thousands of college apps that go out, even 20 is a drop in the bucket. But someone who does that, all things equal, if he is truly a viable candidate, has a greater chance than someone who just throws one app into the heap. I remember in my day, I was getting dark looks for applying to 8 colleges. Got into all of them, but my top three choices did not give me a good fin aid package, whereas the others did. I had a financial/admissions safety, and merit possibilities. </p>
<p>With my son, we may end up applying to many schools simply because we are unsure of direction and want to cover a lot of area. The kid at May is not always of the same mindset as he was in November/Dec when filling out the apps. The girls I mention in the first paragraph here, both came up with some things they would have like that are not in their choices. Had they not cropped their semi final list, they may well have had more choices.</p>
<p>Blossom, my neighbor's daughter did not get into her favorite school, but she is much, much happier than many of her peers by getting into 3 top schools. Would she be just as happy had she gotten into just her matches and safeties? I don't think so. She is exhuberant as are her parents. A shallow happiness, but I'm sure many families wish they had this right now. There are some pretty unhappy people here right now.</p>
<p>"I guess that is the definition of selective, Mini. Knowing the schools, it was a bit of a surprise--not shocking, does happen, but a surprise."</p>
<p>Well, for many of these schools, the quality of the applicants is not going up (on the contrary, they get more and more Hail Marys), and the quality of the students they actually get to attend might actually be declining, at least in terms of students they particularly hoped to target.</p>
<p>That is entirely possible, Mini. Not something I know about, however. I live in an area that is very competitive in terms of college admissions. Everyone is line for the same colleges it seems, and there are ever many high scorers with high grades, tough curriculum. This is the Northeast, and this is one of the identified pockets for this sort of thing. I have always wondered about the selectivity of 3 Maine schools. Not schools I would think that would have such numbers, but I know kids who did not get into them who did get into some of the Little Ivies and/or Ivies. I can't imagine that they would have loads of west coast kids applying there, but from here they makes the reach designation.</p>
<p>Yup, because by becoming less selective, these schools are no longer capable of clearly picking out the students they really want, and actually getting them to attend. </p>
<p>High scorers are a dime a dozen. (Now a quarterback with a rifle for an arm, that is another story.)</p>
<p>I have seen kid hear apply to HPY and get accepted to one, two, all three or none. Clearly those who applied to all of them and got into one or two, could have been shut out had they just applied to one of those 3 as their super reach school. In my son's school there are a number of kids who were rejected by one or two of the three but accepted to one of them.</p>
<p>If they really, seriously wanted all 3, fine. But "Ivy League" refers to an athletic conference, not an quality of academics or social environment that all the colleges share. Are they all great colleges? Yes. But so are a lot of non-Ivies. So the student who takes the hit & hope approach is one who is often missing the best fit college, and sometimes actually sacrificing a lot in terms of academic opportunities because of the focus on prestige. By "sacrificing" I mean that if that student spent more time looking at what some excellent but lesser prestige colleges offered in terms of programs of study, he or she might find that the perfect fit, dream program of study is located elsewhere. </p>
<p>Meanwhile, because they are focused so much on prestige, they may miss the boat when it comes to structuring a good list, simply because they aren't looking. </p>
<p>And the most likely result of applying to 3 Ivies or applying to 6 is getting into -0-. More Ivy applicants come up empty than any other result. They are out several hundred dollars of application fees, but they are no closer to their goal.</p>
<p>In my neck of the woods, prestige is a big deal. The ivies or other "popular" top colleges are often on the list without a whole lot of research. Statistically, at most of those schools, the kids tend to be happy and graduate. The tough part is finding 2 matches and a safety that the kid is happy about.</p>
<p>Well, I agree 100% with those who say that this inflation of college applications is totally ridiculous and counterproductive. For once, the French have a better solution for their competitive pr</p>