Please Advise Re: Admission to Top 5 Programs Worldwide

Graduate School Business School - MBA
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<p>The pertinent details:</p>

<p>-770 GMAT (49q, 48v, 6.0 AWA)
-BS from a small highly regarded college
-4.00 GPA in finance major, graduation award
-3.49 cumulative GPA (.007 shy of 3.5)
-Bilingual
-4.5 years of workex w/ two boutique real estate investment firms, one American and one European (current employer). No gaps in employment history. Significant responsibility, leadership, and promotions (i.e. managing over $30 million in projects, multiple subordinates).
-Lacking Olympic medals but I feel my CV is rather atypical (for the sake of brevity, I’ll keep it there)</p>

<p>I haven't made any applications for this cycle and I understand there is a slight disadvantage applying in R2. As a result, I am considering postponing my applications a couple of years to complete an MSc Finance degree in Europe at a highly regarded university. I do not want to apply to the top programs in this very competitive year without giving myself every possible advantage by submitting my applications very early in the cycle. I understand there’s stigma plaguing re-applicants at the top schools that I obviously want to avoid. In short, I wish to apply as best I can the first and only time.</p>

<p>Please keep in mind when answering the following questions that I will only be applying to HWS and maybe 1-2 other top schools w/ global reputations. If I don't get accepted to any of them, I will not pursue an MBA.</p>

<p>So here we go:</p>

<p>Would adcoms doubt my focus with a "specialist" MSc Finance degree before a more "general" MBA? I would imagine the MBA typically comes first so I am curious if the reversed order would raise eyebrows.</p>

<p>Would it be wiser to apply to MBA programs next year instead of waiting two years in order to finish the MSc? Applying next year would lead to a more conventional bachelor's + 5.5 years workex @ time of application + roughly 1 year between applying and enrolling = matriculation @ age 27 (I graduated college @ 20). Alternatively, would I maximize my chances by applying @ 27 (matriculating at 28) w/ a year of international graduate coursework (and stellar grades) in addition to the 5.5 years of workex? Put another way, would my younger age be more beneficial than my graduate school accomplishments? To summarize, the difference would be matriculating @ 27 w/ 6.5 years of workex vs. matriculating @ 28 w/ 5.5 years of workex and a 2-year MSc Finance degree.</p>

<p>Would you agree that graduate study is an excellent means of remedying my UGPA or has my GMAT already done that? I had one C and three B- grades my freshman year, which was by far my worst year academically. In fact, my GPA steadily improved each semester to the point where my cumulative GPA across my junior and senior years was 3.80.</p>

<p>Is it worth it to risk the aforementioned possible concerns over my focus and age in order to strengthen my overall transcript merit w/ said graduate studies? Btw, I realize matriculating @ 28 would be suitable for some schools, particularly those outside of the US, but age is a hot topic nowadays, especially w/ some top US programs, so please humor me. It seems 27 and 28 is a big difference to some of these adcoms.</p>

<p>Lastly, do you think I am selling myself short and putting too much weight on the R2 disadvantage and the re-applicant stigma? Am I missing the opportunity of applying at what might really be the “sweet spot” age i.e. matriculating @ 26 with 5.5 years of workex (as would be the case if I were to apply in the current cycle)? Do you think my candidacy is already strong enough to be competitive at HWS without having to do another degree program and wait two years?</p>

<p>My sincere thanks for your time and candid advice.</p>

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<p>what are these 2 other business schools aside from HSW that you’re considering?</p>

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<p>Hey there. Thanks for responding. I was thinking Yale and Berkeley. My criteria includes a program with a global reputation; I don’t see the sense in spending the time and $ with a degree from a school that is relatively unknown outside of the US. Outside of HWS, Yale and Berkeley seem to have the strongest brands (even to the layman). Would you agree?</p>

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<p>… obviously you’re new to this site, because those were the WORST two schools you could have asked RML about comparing =D</p>

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<p>It’s funny you mention that because not long after I made that post I stumbled upon “The 4th Best Business School” thread. I see exactly what you mean but in this case I am actually putting them on rather equal terms. It’s HWS + Yale and Berkeley for top 5 global “on the street” cred. Of course that’s just my opinion and I am looking forward to others chiming in.</p>

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<p>Faustini;</p>

<p>Your qualifications are excellent, you will be a competitive applicant now (assuming your recs, essays and interviews match your other stellar qualifications). If you want to do the Finance degree go for it, but you certainly don’t have to. I don’t think applying r2 matters much at all (R3 will hurt you). Your GPA is fine, the average at top schools is in the 3.5-3.6 range, so no worries there.</p>

<p>Regarding your choices of schools: HWS are of course a good bet, but I would question Haas and Yale SOM as your other choices. Each is an excellent school, but are they not even close to the top three in terms of their reputation in business. Have you looked at Booth, Kellogg, Sloan, or Columbia? Booth would be an excellent fourth choice for you; it is a little easier to get into than HSW and also outstanding in Finance - I assume you plan to continue in that area. Sloan and Columbia are both very good schools that are strong in finance as well. LBS might be worth considering as well if it’s a global reputation that you’re looking for (actually they advertise themselves as the most global b-school) and they have a great finance reputation as well.</p>

<p>Sounds like you’ve put in lots of hard work to prepare for this, you’ll do great. Good luck.</p>

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<p>storch,</p>

<p>Thank you for your encouraging words. I have read some of your other posts and you seem to be a very able commentator so I am pleased to have your opinion on this matter.</p>

<p>I’m torn on the issue because although I feel the other degree would strengthen my candidacy, I fear it may prove to be a Pyrrhic victory: although I become a stronger candidate my age ruins my chances of acceptance. Matriculating at 28 seems to be a big issue @ HBS and it would be unfortunate if I missed an opportunity at that program since it is my top choice. Wharton and Stanford tie for second.</p>

<p>Sloan, Booth, Columbia, and Kellogg are excellent and, yes, I have looked into them. My concern is that their reputations are rather tethered to the US (at least relative to HWS). I thought Yale SOM would be a good choice largely based on the strength of its brand. I realize it is not ranked so well but I attribute that to its youth. I echo the opinions of some of the posters on “The 4th Best Business School” thread and figure it is only a matter of time before it features prominently on the scene. My interest is waning on Haas because there are better programs out there and I also don’t think I would do so well on a personal level in that city.</p>

<p>But I am now finding the question of “which other schools besides HWS” to be irrelevant. While I was initially thinking about adding two other less competitive programs, it seems to be coming down to the perennial top three. I am quite concerned about the state of the world and figure I owe it to myself to do all I can to ensure the greatest return on the requisite MBA investment of time and money. Ultimately, I feel that return will largely be determined by the reputation of the school (a flight to quality during crisis). This is what is driving me towards HWS.</p>

<p>My concern is that applying to HBS for matriculation @ 28 (as I would be if I pursued the master’s degree in Europe) will prove futile. This issue almost single-handedly is forcing me to question whether it would be wise to pursue the other degree. I want to study in Europe but not at the cost of permanently disqualifying myself—or at least severely reducing my chances—from contention at Harvard (I don’t think it’s an issue at Wharton or Stanford but please correct me if I am wrong). Would you happen to have any insight on this point in particular?</p>

<p>Thanks again.</p>

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<p>Faustini,</p>

<p>My sis-in-law got into HBS with stats slightly lower than yours. She eventually graduated as Baker Scholar, or one of the top 5% of her class at HBS. She was an accountancy graduate with only 3 years of work experience at P&G. Having said that, I think you do have a shot at HBS or SBS. Wharton is usually easier to get into relative to HBS and SBS. But application differs from year to year. Some years are tougher than the others because of the quality of the applicants you compete against is higher than in other years. No one here for sure would be able to determine your success (or failure) for sure. But basing on your stats alone, I can say that you do have a good shot at HSW.</p>

<p>Now as for your list of schools, I personally think it’s a fine list. Both Berkeley and Yale are amazing schools with great global reputation. In reality, especially if you want to work outside of the US, all the top 15 US B-Schools would put you in good stead. Do not believe wholeheartedly on some rumors that a Virginia-Darden MBA, for instance, is inferior to Chicago or Sloan MBA. There are no guarantees here. It’s still up to you on how you will take that MBA degree to further your career or improve your life, as a whole. All the top 15 business schools (or maybe 20) will serve your purpose well provided you will use it strategically. A Harvard degree will not guarantee 100% success. A considerable HBS graduates don’t make as much as their top earners classmates do. [mba-pay-riches-for-some-not-all:</a> Personal Finance News from Yahoo! Finance](<a href=“http://finance.yahoo.com/college-education/article/107864/mba-pay-riches-for-some-not-all;_ylt=AoGE7Du77PZgJE2lzER0mJYJo9IF;_ylu=X3oDMTBvZXVjaGVlBHBvcwMxMARzZWMDYXJ0aWNsZQRzbGsDMg--?mod=edu-continuing_education]mba-pay-riches-for-some-not-all:”>http://finance.yahoo.com/college-education/article/107864/mba-pay-riches-for-some-not-all;_ylt=AoGE7Du77PZgJE2lzER0mJYJo9IF;_ylu=X3oDMTBvZXVjaGVlBHBvcwMxMARzZWMDYXJ0aWNsZQRzbGsDMg--?mod=edu-continuing_education)</p>

<p>Alternatively, you may also consider attending either Oxford-Said or Cambridge-Judge. They’re top, top universities with global reputation and offer MBA for only 1 year. Good luck!</p>

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<p>RML,</p>

<p>Thanks for that. I think the best advice is to just live your life as you see fit and not try to gauge the desires of what appear to be rather capricious adcoms at these top schools. Clearly it’s true that an MBA alone will not make one successful. At the same time, however, we have to give ourselves every possible advantage. I may be far more capable than the next guy but perhaps because I didn’t apply myself and he did, he has HBS on his CV and I have only my bachelor’s. That’s an uneven playing field. It is widely known that the top programs don’t teach their students much at all and that the real draw is the networking, the “pedigree” such a program provides. It’s sad but true: our world is not a complete meritocracy. To a certain extent we have to “play the game” or we may be voluntarily putting ourselves at a great disadvantage.</p>

<p>My concern about being out of contention by applying @ 27 appears to be unfounded. In fact, there is some talk that the downward age trend may be reversing. Anyways, pursuing the other degree may be akin to applying at a younger age as it appears the concern w/ older applicants is that they are 1) less amenable to classroom instruction than their younger peers and 2) more “set in their ways” due to their considerable work experience. Completing the other degree would clearly eliminate the first concern and do much to assuage the second fear as well since two more years at university is two less years of workex and the rigidity it may impart.</p>

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<p>Faustini;</p>

<p>The average age of HBS first years is 27 (or possibly 26 depending on where you look). I don’t see why being just one year over that would matter much. Stanford and Wharton averages are 28. </p>

<p>I wouldn’t sweat your age too much, just make sure you’re in that 3-6 years work exp sweet spot.</p>

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<p>storch,</p>

<p>Appreciate that assurance. I am feeling much better about the whole age thing. I am shootin’ to be right on the mark on both counts, age and WE. I haven’t heard any confirmation–and I doubt the adcoms would ever leak as much–but it seems reasonable to believe that re-apps would be at a severe disadvantage. Fresh is best, yes?</p>

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<p>Can’t say for sure, I have seen stats somewhere that re-apps have a higher acceptance rate at top schools, could be some selection bias there though.</p>

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<p>I have to think that once the adcom sees that you are applying again they will immediately think “reject” and treat your application, even unconsciously, a little differently than that belonging to a fresh face. It’s only human psychology. Try as one might to treat the two candidates the same, first impressions still matter: for the reapp, the bar is set even higher.</p>