Please chance/match my son for CS/math

Chance Me / Match Me!
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Could you please help my son find some more matches and safeties?

Demographics

  • US domestic
  • New York State
  • Small moderately competitive public school
  • White male
  • Other special factors: legacy for Harvard.

Intended Major(s)
Computer science and/or math. Currently most interested in CS (especially AI), but he might end up in some kind of applied math. He’s thinking of pursuing a PhD.

GPA, Rank, and Test Scores

  • Unweighted HS GPA: 3.98
  • Weighted HS GPA 4.58 (with +0.5 for honors, +1.0 for AP)
  • Class Rank: 1/80
  • ACT/SAT Scores: 730 verbal, 800 math

Coursework
Math: AP Calculus BC (at his school), Linear Algebra, Multivariate Calculus, Data Science, Abstract Algebra, Complex Analysis (online, advanced)
Science Research
AP CS A, AP Chemistry, AP Physics C, AP Euro, APUSH, AP English Lang, AP English Lit (senior yr), AP Spanish (senior yr), AP Spanish (senior yr)
All AP tests 5 so far

Awards
Acceptance into selective mathematics camps (4 years)
AI research project awarded 1st place in math/computer science in regional science fair

Extracurriculars
Selective mathematics camps (4 summers)
Research internship in AI this summer
Research project with a math history professor (about 2 years), will hopefully result in a book but hasn’t yet
Go player
Volunteer tutor of younger math kid
Extensive involvement / leadership in religious community (teaching, organizing, leading services)
Played violin through 9th grade but quit after injury

Essays/LORs/Other
Essays: Will probably be functional
LOR: I expect his guidance counselor recommendation to be quite strong, he’s very unusual for the school. STEM recommendations will be pretty strong. Humanities teacher recommendation (where required) will probably be ordinary.

Cost Constraints / Budget
We can swing full price. But merit aid would be nice, especially at a less selective school.

Schools

He made his list based on schools that are supposed to be great for both math and computer science. The problem is that I understand that CS has much lower admission rates than overall (especially for out of state) and those hard to find. Schools that we originally thought of as safety (like UW) are not if he wants to do CS. He prefers not to be in a school of engineering because of wanting to keep open the option of majoring or double majoring in math.

Could you please help us find some more matches and safeties?

Preferences:
A collaborative rather than competitive vibe (very important)
Being surrounded by smart, interesting people (very important)
Good mentorship, undergraduate research opportunities, and grad school placements (very important)
Medium-sized school, weather not too hot, suburban/small town/pleasant city (not as important)
Nice Jewish community

  • Safety: Stony Brook? (Not his preference)
  • Match: UMich (EA), UT Austin, UCSD
  • Reach: MIT (EA, his first choice), Harvard, Princeton, Stanford, Cornell, Berkeley, Brown, Harvey Mudd, Carnegie Mellon, UCLA
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First, are there any budgetary constraints?

Second, he needs a safety that he would prefer. He probably won’t land there, but CS is competitive and it needs to be a school that excites him at least a little.

Third, there are no bad schools on the list, but they are extremely different from one and other. It’s hard to picture two schools more different than UT and HMC. He should focus beyond reputation and rank to narrow his list.

Good luck.

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Agreed with @eyemgh .

A safety, and your son will get into a million schools, it’s a place where you would be perfectly happy if you ended up there.

Stony Brook is strong but if it’s not right, he needs to find another.

I’m going to go on a limb and assume you’re not going to qualify for aid. So if you are full pay at the elite, why not find a school for him as a safety that he’ll like.

I would disagree with you on matches btw - all three schools are tought OOS and IN CS. Have you considered schools like Rochester,RPI, WPI, CWRU, Rose Hulman - ? Those would be matches to me. NC State, Maryland - two excellent programs.

thx

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I think of Utah as a great safety school for math and it’s easy to add a CS major. Their top science students get a lot of mentoring and research opportunities, here’s an example of a mathematician from a few years ago: University of Utah Student Awarded Prestigious Churchill Scholarship

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Can you provide some information about the competitive math camps? Are they at the level of Canada/USA Mathcamp or PROMYS? Any AMC scores to note?

If finances are not an issue, I suggest adding NYU as a low match. It is world class in math, and strong in CS. Admission is likely given your son’s accomplishments.

Michigan is a match, but I recommend applying EA and showing real interest, including visiting if possible. If your son has done well on AMC tests, he may get a letter from the math department suggesting he apply.

Re Carnegie-Mellon, my CS/Math son didn’t apply because his impression was that it was very competitive there.

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Michigan and UT Austin are reaches for out of state applicants.

Schools like RPI, Case, Rochester, Lehigh would be matched.

He can add more SUNY schools for a safety or Clarkson.

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Let’s wait to hear about the AMC scores. The Michigan math department likes students with that profile (yes, I know that admissions is separate).

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Any reasons he doesn’t already have bing and buffalo on his list? If not, look into replacing stony brook. Buffalo comp sci is definitely in engineering, but my impression from friends that go there is that it’s not hard to switch out of engineering. I believe they have something like a comp sci/apma degree too. Especially with APs, he could prob get lots of credit.

I agree with suggestion of Rochester, and would add RIT–I believe they have computational math or something like that. I can’t speak to how competitive CS admissions is there.

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Thanks for your response.

No firm budgetary constraints – we’ve been saving for this since the day he was born. However, this is certainly a big expense, and in the tier that merit aid might be available, it does matter.

Yes, UT is a maybe, picked due to top reputation in both math and CS, easier admission than MIT et al., and nothing in particular turning him off about it (so far). HMC attracted him by a certain quirky, friendly workaholic vibe, and even though it’s small, with the consortium it’s more like a mid-sized college.

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Thanks for your response. Yes, exactly, it’s really hard to pick from a million schools the one that will make him happiest. (And a large part of what makes him happy is being with nerds like him or smarter, hence the great hope to get into a more selective school.)

We will definitely give Stony Brook a serious look. Maryland has also just gotten on his radar – but does the same problem with OOS admission apply? How about Wisconsin?

Seems to me like Rochester and CWRU at least are definitely worth a look, but he thinks they rank too low on US News in math and CS. But I don’t know how else to evaluate how good they are, especially in research. They do both seem to emphasize undergraduate research and Rochester gives students more independence, which he’d appreciate.

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Thank you, I wasn’t aware of Utah. We’ll take a look at it.

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Math camps: yes, Canada/USA Mathcamp, as well as HCSSiM and (in middle school) Mathpath.

Unfortunately he doesn’t have AMC scores to report. He decided he’d need to prep, and wanted to spend his time learning advanced math and working on his projects instead. This was probably a mistake, as we realize now that AMC scores are like SATs for math majors. He has found some programming contests and is working on his score this summer.

He’s definitely applying EA to Michigan. He’s gone to online info sessions, but haven’t been in person yet.

Thanks for the info on Carnegie-Mellon.

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Be assured, there isn’t just one. Every school has strengths. Every school has weaknesses. My son summarized it better than I could have. I asked him if he though his final choice was the best fit while visiting on the first Parent’s Weekend. He said “I like it a lot, but I’m sure I would have been fine at any of the schools I applied to.”

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When you are in a major, even at a big state school, you’ll find your nerdy types if that’s what he wants. I think he’s ok at both UMD and Wisconsin - but they are not shoe in. Schools like RIP, Rose Hulman, and WPI will be more tech focused so you will have a nerdy element. And i’ll throw out two safeties with merit - Embry Riddle in Daytona Beach and Florida Tech in Melbourne Florida - if he has any interest in aeronautics - it’s the kid of schools where when a plane is overhead, every stares up into the sky. You didn’t mention aeronautics but both have CS and if he has an interest…it’s a place with similarly filled minds.

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As the parent of a CMU senior majoring in computer science with a double major in math, I have to say that CMU is only competitive if your student makes it that way. My son has had a very collaborative experience. In fact, several of the classes are group based and the students plan their schedules to take them with friends. The students are driven, but they are not the cut throat competitive type.

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Has he considered U of Waterloo?
It’s top tier for Math/CS, and admissions are very much stats-driven. (Which is to say, results are probably more predictable than at top US schools, but I’ll leave it to those who know admissions better than I to confirm that your son’s qualifications would position him well.) In addition to both Math and CS majors, there are several crossover majors among the 14 tracks within the math department.

Reading your description of what he wants, my mind went to Wesleyan; but maybe it’s not a sufficiently prominent math/CS program for the cost. He does sound like someone who would enjoy Mudd, and the math faculty there, and across the 5C’s, are phenomenal both academically and in their humane approach to their field and their students. CS there is top-notch too, attracting an actual majority of Mudd students as majors or joint majors, and retaining gender parity throughout. No restrictions around choosing/changing majors once in, excellent grad school placement, and those who thrive on the workload truly love it there. The consortium provides a great combination of small-school camaraderie and larger-school resources.

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He doesn’t have an interest in aeronautics in particular, but this image definitely made me smile.

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Waterloo sounds awesome, but that’s another good school that’s a non-safety.
Thanks for confirming our good impression of Mudd. I don’t know what it takes to get in though. He has a good friend who got into Harvard, MIT, and Caltech, but not Mudd.

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S/he didn’t apply ED to Mudd. Mudd is much more yield-conscious.

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That’s not because Mudd is objectively harder to get into. It’s the randomness from the outside. When you have too many applicants, you have to cull them somehow. It’s usually not academic differences that differentiate.

If he likes the vibe of Mudd, I’d consider a look at WPI as a match or even safety. I’d also add Pomona. And, if he’s into Mudd, I’d question whether or not schools like Berkeley, Texas, UCLA, etc. are good fits. Intro to CS at Berkeley has more students than the whole Harvey Mudd student body. My son lives with a HMC grad. He loved the experience.

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