Please Chance Me for Bates and Swarthmore? (And help me decide my ED1 strategy?)

Chance Me / Match Me!
1

Hey everyone! I’m trying to decide which school I should ED to, and I wanted to see my chances for both Bates and Swarthmore for Early Decision Nov. 15th and decide which one to apply to ED, so any help would be really, really appreciated appreciated. I’m just going to lay out as much information as I can to help, so yeah, this might be a little wordy and may contain a lot of rambling…

Draws: PARTICIPATED IN BOTH COLLEGE FLY-IN PROGRAMS (so both Bates and Swarthmore). Male, Low-Income, First Gen Asian Student from Texas, has a learning disorder in the form of ADHD, is confirmed to speed-read (reads 2000+ Words per Minute).

GPA: Unweighted GPA - 3.32 (out of 4.0)

Weighted GPA - 3.94 (out of 5.0)

Top Quarter (23/99) at an extremely competitive Magnet School in my city - had a minor GPA drop Junior year, but I can explain that.

My school is wholly dual credit and AP - we graduate with an associates degree in either Arts or Sciences at my local community colleges, so all my classes are either Dual Enrollment, Pre-AP, Honors, or AP - no regular classes at all.

APs: Taken all but one of the possible AP Classes I could take Junior Year, didn’t take Stat. Took 5/9 Possible AP Classes overall at my school.

National AP Scholar
- 3 in AP World History
- 3 in AP European History
- 3 in AP US History
- 3 in AP Language
- 2 in AP Chemistry (Should I include this in the application?)

Senior Year Schedule: I have no AP classes, but all Dual Enrollment Classes.

First Semester
Dual Enrollment Biology (BIO 1406)
Dual Enrollment Forms of Literature (ENGL 2343)
Dual Enrollment U.S. Government (GOVT 2305)
Dual Enrollment Trigonometry (MATH 1316)
Dual Enrollment Sociology (SOCI 1301)
Teen Leadership
Lab Assistant - Chemistry

Second Semester
Dual Enrollment Astronomy (ASTR 1301)
Dual Enrollment English 4 (ENGL 1302)
Dual Enrollment Texas Government (GOVT 2306)
Dual Enrollment Art Appreciation (ARTS 1301)
Dual Enrollment Statistical Methods of Psychology (PSYC 2317)
Teen Leadership
Off Campus

I graduate with an Associates Degree in Science from the local community college in my city along with everything else when I graduate HS - not sure if it does anything to my chances or not…

SAT: Superscore
- CR: 730
- Math: 660
- Writing: 550
- Composite: 1940

    Highest Single Sitting:
   - CR: 630
   - Math: 660 
   - Writing: 550
   - Composite: 1840

PSAT: 184 in Junior Year.

My SATs are within the range for Bates and below for Swat - but both schools saw my SATs and accepted me to the fly-ins, so I hope that’s a good thing. In comparison, the SAT average of my school is like 1430 (even if the GPA average is 3.5 and everyone #22 and higher at at a 4.0+ GPA), so I’m not sure if that helps or hinders me in the application process.

Not taking the ACT, SAT IIs will be soon for RD, but I’m doing ED, and I’m not sure if I should submit my SATs in my application, since Bates is test optional.

ECs: I’m pretty heavily involved in ECs.

    - Independently did research on personality theory(Jungian Cognitive Functions) for 4 years - used it to solve familial and in-school conflicts.

    - Co-Captain of the Debate Team - judged debate tournaments at the request of the HUDL director, consistent clearing at tournaments, went to debate camps every summer, heavily involved within my Urban Debate League, coaching both my team and a middle school debate team as part of a Senior Capstone Project from my school.

    - Teacher Assistant and Senior Fellow for the EMERGE Fellowship - HISD Chapter, after a rigorous selection process with only the top students in my school district entered. I participate within the program and I assist my Program Manager with teaching and assisting the Junior Fellows at my school about college, and college readiness, while independently helping out other seniors with the college admissions process. Participated in the EMERGE Future Scholars Institute, which was a 5 day program at Yale and Wesleyan, where we learned about college, participated in interviews, etc.

    - 100+ hours of volunteering - am a member of the school NHS along with being a Student Hero at the local Food Bank.

    - Member of the School Prom Committee - helped organize and fundraise events 

    - A founding member of the school's Theater/Drama Club - prompter for plays.

    - Member of the School Chemistry Olympiad and the Robotics Club - took academic tests and did projects related to STEM fields, and a lab assistant for my chemistry teacher.

Awards:

School/Academic Awards
- HISD Regional History Fair 2nd Place
- GTAME Algebra II Second Place
- GTAME Team Bridge Building First Place

Debate Awards (I participate in my Urban Debate League so all awards are from said UDL)
- 9th Top Worlds School Debate Speaker Award
- Worlds School Debate Octofinalist Award (2 tournaments)
- 3rd Top Junior Varsity CX Debate Speaker Award
- Junior Varsity CX Debate Quarterfinalist Award (2 tournaments)
- Junior Varsity CX Debate Semifinalist Award
- Varsity CX Debate 2nd Top Speaker Award
- Varsity CX Debate Octofinalist Award (4 tournaments)
- Varsity CX Debate Quarterfinalist Award (2 tournaments)
- Varsity CX Debate Runner Up Award

Interviews: Aced - both interviewers told me that they were amazed at how passionate I was, and I definitely talked to the admissions counselors and spoke to them about my interest (because both schools are in my Top 2, I just need to figure out which one…) during the fly-in, so I’m not sure if that helps.

Letters of Recs; Noticeable participation within school - I work with my teachers and help them, help other students with the college process, excel in classes, and haven’t gotten into any trouble, so I should hope that my recs are REALLY REALLY GOOD. I have one letter of Rec from the EMERGE Fellowship, two fantastic teacher recs (one from my English Teacher and one from my Chemistry Teacher), and my counselor rec is probably going to be good too because of my impact on the school.

Essay: Very strong - well-developed, talked about how research helped change my life, got me through a tough Sophomore and Junior Year (explaining my GPA Drop along with the actions I took to resolve it, so it’s NOT a downer essay), and how it helped me ‘overcome’ and harness my ADHD so my disability becomes an advantage, aligning my Common Application with my heavily research-based extracurriculars, and my future plans of becoming a college professor and researcher. I worked with it with my Program Manager, who got students last year into schools like Brandeis, Wesleyan,and Occidental (with the program itself getting students into top tier colleges) and she definitely said it was ready.

Supplements: Strong - The fly-ins and my PM (bless her soul) will definitely help me with that, so I foresee having no problem.

Also, if it is possible, is there a good way to decide between two equally amazing colleges? I’m still on the fence between Bates and Swat and I’m not sure what to do. Is there anything more I can do for my application? Thank you so much!

2

You don’t have the SATs. Your long list of activities is a distraction. Focus on quality, not quantity. Can you name one or two things that distinguishes you?

3

@Burgermeister I would probably say my independent research and tutoring in debate and EMERGE distinguishes me from other candidates in terms of activities, along with my unique background as a low-income Asian-American with ADHD.

4

Bates is test optional. I would think you would have a better shot there than at Swat. With your test scores I would be very surprised that you could gain admittance to Swarthmore absent your other achievements. So on paper alone you have a much better shot at Bates given that you do not have to submit your standardized testing.

5

Congrats on a very nice resume
Before you worry about which school to apply to ED you should
do some homework with regards to which schools will accept your duel
enrollment credits
Most highly ranked colleges do not
Swarthmore does NOT
So if you are planning on using them you should google different schools
websites and get the info
You can call schools and give them course numbers from the community college and see
what if any credits they will accept
Obviously, if the credits are not a major issue than you can disregard my
comment
Good luck with the process

6

Bates has ED II. Apply Swat ED I, and Bates ED II if that is your order if preference. I will say that Swat is a hugely difficult school academically. Given your scores, you are going to find it to be a very intense grind if you get in, and even then you will have a hard time being in the top half of your class. Is that what you want? I have kids who applied to and got into both schools. Bates is very solid, and you will work hard there. But not like you would at Swat.

As noted above, Bates may accept some of your credits, although you have to check. Swat likely won’t.

7

Seare825 - I am being difficult because your long resume looks familiar. We are knocking on the same doors as you. I don’t think EMERGE, ADHD, or your ethnicity are assets. Maybe I am wrong. Your independent research does distinguish you. Are you able to document your research? Has it been reviewed by a senior mentor or teacher? Bates is the higher probability. Note that Vassar is trying to attract research-oriented candidates; and in Vassar’s case, being male is an asset.

8

A couple of notes-
@Burgermeister, OP is deciding between EDing at Bates or Swarthmore. Vassar’s a great school but not on the current list.

Both Bates and Swarthmore have ED2. Swat will be a tougher admit, particularly with the SAT scores. The 550 on the writing portion falls in the bottom 4.5% for accepted students. In my mind the question is whether the OP wants to take a gamble on the more remote possibility of Swarthmore with Bates as a (still not a sure thing) backup, or to apply ED1 to Bates with Swarthmore as an ED2 reach.

Bates is big into debating, as you probably know. If you intend to debate in college that might give Bates a slight edge.

IMO Swarthmore is a bit more academically intense than Bates. If that’s your thing it might give Swat a slight edge.

According to a Bates admissions officer, not submitting standardized test scores will not hurt a candidate but submitting low scores will. In her words, “If they submit them we have to consider them.”

9

I think you’ve got a good story. Good luck

10

@Seare825 Did either school tell you the acceptance rate for candidates accepted for the fly-in programs?

After looking at your stats, I wouldn’t take a chance on this. You have two gifts in front of you. Stats for regular applicants, unhooked, are far higher. Bates published regular decision stats last year of 2135 for SAT, 32 ACT and 81% in the top 10% of their class. Regular decision is a good proxy for unhooked applicants.

Without knowing the acceptance rate for fly-in programs it is hard to decide.

Pick the one for ED1 with the lowest risk and that would be Bates for a male. You may miss a great chance doing Swarthmore ED1.

It was mentioned above, that Bates is a top debate school so use that secondary hook as well.

11

Bates is test optional, so you really can’t tell that much from their test stats.

12

I was thinking of doing Bates ED1, because I think I prefer Bates to Swarthmore. Would that work out?

13

@Seare825 In the absence of hard acceptance data for the fly in programs then doing Bates first is the best option. As an Asian, Bates will be more motivated to accept you than Swarthmore because Bates is a school that is making a concerted effort to divesify. Swarthmore mainly due to location has reached this to a great extent. Being a male is of greater value at Bates.

The other thing is your debating background. Bates is way up there in debate rankings and you must have attracted the school partially on this.

In either case, both schools represent a fantastic opportunity, one I wouldn’t fiddle with.

All things considered. Bates offers the best risk reward for ED. And you seem to like it more anyway.

The best ED choice is the best risk not the biggest longshot.

14

You can’t be a National AP Scholar with the number of tests and scores you posted so be careful about claiming that on your application. Good luck with everything.

15

@Falcon1 oops, I see the mistake. Will correct.

16

@Sue22: Bates saw the OP’s SATs before the fly-in. Can they then “forget them?” I was wondering if you knew anything about this.

“I think I prefer Bates” (11)

That is, in my opinion, THE reason for applying ED I, @Seare825.

17

@merc81 - Both schools accepted me with my previous scores to the fly in, and I definitely showed my interest to the Admissions Officers, host, and interviewer while I was at Bates. Does that help me?

Currently working on the supplement - am unsure on how to approach this. Thoughts?

18

@Seare825 I am not familiar with American teaching style as I am an international student but I must tell you that it is a pretty good resume you’ve got there. I encourage you to apply ED to Bates and maybe EDII to Swarthmore.
Take advice from these other guys. Those are really great comments.
Good luck. :slight_smile:

19

@Burgermeister @Sue22 @TurnerT @Regulus7

Just wanted to update you with the end results since RD decisions are over, and I’m proud to say that I will be a member of the Bates College Class of 2020! Thank you so much for all of the help in the application process!

ED1

Bates College: Deferred

ED2

Swarthmore College: Deferred

RD

Bates College: Accepted (matriculating)
Trinity University: Accepted
Texas A&M: Accepted
Washington College: Accepted
Kenyon College: Waitlisted
Connecticut College: Waitlisted
Swarthmore College: Rejected
Colby College: Rejected
Grinnell College: Rejected
Macalester College: Rejected
Middlebury College: Rejected
Vassar College: Rejected