<p>I would be leaning toward Chicago too, though I would not have great heartburn over Colorado College. Vermont - not so much though I suppose there is the save money for graduate school argument (assuming that it is less expensive or there is a merit scholarship there).</p>
<p>I appreciate that my rough relationship with my parents may be a cause for concern, but I promise you that I’m not advocating for CC just because they don’t approve of it. I think in my eagerness to defend CC in my original post I may have given the wrong impression: If Chicago were the only school to which I’d been accepted EA, I might have already sent in my deposit. As it turned out, however, I have other options that I’m thrilled to have. I agree with my parents that this is a very important decision, but I disagree with their assessment that the best option is the one that ranks the highest. If I wanted to spite them, I would have applied to a university in Greece or maybe even the University of Hawaii - somewhere really far away where I could just goof off. I’m still very much invested in receiving an excellent education. I just want to be sure that I’m making the right choice for myself, my personality, and my interests and not just the best choice in terms of my future career. </p>
<p>So, joblue, while some kids my age may just want to do everything their parents don’t want them to do, I’d really like to convince you that I’m not one of them. There’s definitely a chance that I’ll visit Colorado and end up disliking it and then attend Chicago in the spring, and I would be perfectly fine which that decision, since it would be one which I made having equal information about both schools at my disposal, if that makes sense. I chose both schools completely on my own, as well as the rest of the schools on my list, and whether or not my parents prefer one over the other will not influence my decision, and they know that. What bothers me the most is that, although I consider CC and UChi, to be equally appealing, they will not give CC even the benefit of the doubt and let me visit.
We tried therapy. It failed, miserably.</p>
<p>Bogney - I have a $40,000 merit scholarship at Colorado, no money at Chicago, and no money at Vermont so far. I am likely to be interested in graduate school, but not ever likely to make very much money.</p>
<p>Congrats on the merit $$ -having choices can be more difficult. I understand your parents point of view, but also know that you are the one that will be going to college. I think you should visit a school before accepting if at all possible. Also, in your post your wrote, “I don’t want to be in debt, even if you consider it a good investment to go to Chicago. I want to have enough money to do what I want to do, and I would have it if I go to CC.” </p>
<p>Does this mean you will have to borrow some/a lot of money to go to Chicago?</p>
<p>
You definitely need to have their permission to go - it’d be a mistake to try to just take off for this. However, showing that you’re willing to pay for it yourself shows that you ‘really’ want to do this and it’s not just a fanciful idea in your mind. Maybe even if your parents think it’s a ‘waste of money’ they’ll at least realize it’s ‘your’ money that’s being spent and you s/b able to spend it for something like this if you want.</p>
<p>
It’s pretty close actually - much closer than Denver is to the mountains. I used to live in Colorado Springs. From every part of town Pikes Peak is right there in the view and it’s a short drive to the mountains. Cheyenne mountain is very close. Besides the mountains there’s garden of the gods, Palmer Park bluffs, and other areas good for outdoor activities.</p>
<p>Post #13
It won’t open doors if the university is not a good fit and the student does poorly or ends up dropping out. I know several U of Chicago dropouts… it’s an intense academic environment, hard to to “tough out” for a student who is unhappy. The “fun comes to die” reputation may be an exaggeration-- but I think it is something that should be factored in. It would be a very different academic ambiance than Colorado.</p>
<p>That being said, Colorado can present problems as well, because of the block plan - and for someone who is “interested in a thousand other things”… that could end up seeming restrictive. </p>
<p>In any case, as the student is full pay – and “full pay” means “parents pay” – its probably a moot point. The issue isn’t whether the parents will allow a visit --the issue is whether the parents would be willing to pay for Colorado over Chicago. It sounds like right now the answer is no, and unless the OP can come up with a compelling argument to the contrary, a visit to Colorado isn’t going to accomplish anything. Absent a generous merit offer from Colorado, I think it would be a hard sell.</p>
<ul>
<li>OK, I see now that you DO have generous merit money from Colorado. That changes the picture immensely. Call up the admissions office there and ask them if they will pay for you to visit. Is that $40K per year… or $40K over 4 years? (If it’s the latter, it’s no big deal - if they are actually giving you a full tuition scholarship, it’s huge).</li>
</ul>
<p>Shootingsilver, </p>
<p>You are an awesome young man. Good luck. Maybe you could get someone from the admissions office at U. of C. to tell your parents how well regarded Colorado College is! I’m only kidding a little; maybe if your parents heard from an “authority” that Colorado College (despite not being on their radar) is an exceptional school, they’d have a better opinion of it. And with regard to the best choice for your future career: You might have more opportunities graduating from the University of Chicago. Maybe. But the very biggest factor in your future success is your own character and capabilities. And you seem to be doing pretty well on those scores!</p>
<p>forthree - Yes: without any aid, I’d graduate with ~$100,000 in debt, which is definitely a lot. My parents have kept their savings for my brother and me in the form of stocks with our names. I’m not a financial genius so I’m not sure if that’s better or worse than just keeping the money in a bank account, but I do know that my post-graduation activities ideally involve the Peace Corps and other sorts of non-money making work before I would attend grad. school, if I do decide to take that path. Therefore, since I’m lucky enough to have parents who saved money in addition to being able to contribute a lot towards college, I don’t really want to liquidate those assets just to pay for undergrad, since I’m likely to need money after college too. Maybe someone who knows more about finances can give me better advice? This is the one area that my counselors haven’t been able to help be with.</p>
<p>calmom - It’s their Leadership Scholarship. $10k/yr for 4 years.</p>
<p>absweetmarie: Thank you! That means a lot. I should have my counselor call my parents :)</p>
<p>It doesn’t sound like your parents are going to go for Colorado, no matter what you say. I hate to say it, because I think CC is great, and you might just love it, but given the circumstances you should give up, let go of the drama and tension, and go to Chicago. Its your parent’s money. It sucks that you are under their control here, but maybe it’s better just to be zen about the situation, and use the gift you have (and see it as a blessing!).</p>
<p>You really should not go to Colorado without permission. That’s crazy. If that’s the kind of thing you consider, no wonder your parents have issues with you. Don’t create drama. How will that help your cause?</p>
<p>OK, I’m confused … if you are full pay… then why would you have $100K debt at graduation? </p>
<p>$100K is NOT appropriate debt for ANY undergrad. Absolute MAXIMUM debt you should consider with your career aspiration is $30K, and that would be pretty hefty. I would not allow my kids to borrow more than the maximum subsidized Stafford amount - that comes to under $20K. I think you should look on line for the “average” student debt at graduation for your selected college and view that as the rough guideline as to what you should be looking at. So for Chicago that figure is about $22K.</p>
<p>shootingsilver, do you have the funds to pay for school for 4 years if you liquidate your investments with the parental agreement that they will pay the remainder? Can you get them to agree to pay X amount each year regardless of school, so that you can then argue that you want the option to use this merit aid in order to save you funds for graduate school?</p>
<p>The OP is talking about if he ends up without parental support he would have debt.</p>
<p>Three years age COA at Chicago was $58k. It seems as though CC is closer to $50, so with the scholarship, the COA difference approaches $20K, which is substantial. One thing you might check is that CollegesThat Change Lives book. I thought CC used to be in that.</p>
<p>redpoint - I wasn’t planning on going to Colorado without their permission. Other posters asked if I could possibly pay for the trip myself and I responded yes, but they still wouldn’t allow me to go, therefore if I were to go by paying my own way, I would do it without their permission. It was a hypothetical situation. </p>
<p>calmom - We’re considered full pay because of the assets that my parents have in addition to the stocks in my name and in my brother’s name. We also live in a place with a high cost of living, and both my brother and I have attended private school since the 6th grade. He, because the public school system couldn’t give him adequate support and me, because…I’m not really sure. I just did. Anyway, paying 60k a year is an option on paper but not in reality, since the major piece of real estate that my parents own that is worth a few million dollars total now is not ours to sell. It is shared with my dad’s siblings, and I think part of the ownership trickles down to us cousins. One of my relatives is absolutely refusing to sell his share, and we can’t sell at all without consensus. Everyone else wants to sell though. I’m not clear on the legalities of the situation, but in any case, we won’t see a penny from that asset for a long time. So we’re left with my parent’s income, which is substantial, but not nearly enough for full-pay</p>
<p>OP–there is regularly scheduled shuttle that runs between the Denver airport and Colorado Springs</p>
<p>[.::COLORADO</a> SPRINGS SHUTTLE LLC::.](<a href=“http://www.coloradoshuttle.com/].::COLORADO”>http://www.coloradoshuttle.com/)</p>
<p>It’s $50 each way. Ride time is ~75-90 minutes, depending on on traffic and the number of stops the shuttle needs to make.</p>
<p>MDMom, from the 2012 thread I know the OPs parents have nto been really clear about finances either. I just wanted to see if he had the talk about how much they will pay, since it seems dad is saying no problem with cost at Chicago, but is expecting OP to use own funds first. If OP could get firm answers for parents on money, it would allow for more flexibility. For instance if they say we will pay $40,000 a year, the OP could argue that the remaining amount can be made up with merit aid (earned at CC) or liquidating assets at UC). If that could occur, the value of visiting CC becomes more concrete.</p>
<p>MizzBee - I know that if I liquidate what I have (I didn’t even know it existed until about 2 nights ago…) and combine that with my parent’s ability to pay between $30k and $35k/yr, I’d be able to cover Chicago without incurring debt. It would be a battle to convince them to let me attend Colorado, regardless of the money. The money argument is a good one, and probably the best that I have, but they have two strong counterarguments:
- I don’t know if I’m going to go to grad. school, so I should grab the best undergrad. offer that I can. (Our definitions of “better be safe than sorry” differ drastically)
- If I don’t go to a prestigious undergrad, I won’t go to a good graduate school and I won’t be well prepared. I know that there are thousands of examples that contradict this theory, but, as my mom keeps reminding me, my parents have experience that I do not. And their experience involves success when going from prestigious school to prestigious school, and they have no personal experience with anything else. Therefore, they do not trust anything else.</p>
<p>WayOutWestMom - Thanks!! That’s awesome, because I can actually visit Colorado and get myself around!</p>
<p>Shootingsilver – YOU can’t borrow $100K for college. Even if you wanted to, YOU can’t get that much in loans without your parents co-signing. Your parents CAN borrow that amount – the PLUS system will let them borrow up to the full COA. (I’m not saying whether it is a good idea for them to borrow, just that it is an option for them).</p>
<p>Do you know how much the value of the stocks in your name is?</p>
<p>I think its much more important for you right now to figure out how you would PAY for college than figuring out how to visit. You need to get out a spreadsheet, look at the COA of each college, factor in travel costs, and figure out how much each will cost you. Keep in mind that the COA of Colorado College might be understated if you expect to pay $$ for travel (such as ski trips) during the block breaks. </p>
<p>Then you need to figure out how much you have – your own assets & the $ amount your parents can afford to contribute. You should probably liquidate stocks before borrowing-- but you need to look at the structure of the investments. If some of your investments are paying high dividends, you might want to hold on to those. </p>
<p>If you have a choice, it will generally be better for you to graduate with no money (all investments gone) and no debt, then money plus high debt. You need to look at what your net worth would be on graduation, not either figure in isolation. But again, it kind of depends on the structure of the investments. </p>
<p>Anyway, figure out the financial part first. You are focused on a small problem and ignoring the elephant in the room.</p>
<p>I like Colorado Springs…D2 <em>almost</em> went to CC. We visited several times. Administration is quite helpful and will set you up with a host, meal ticket and arrange classroom visits if you contact them to let you know when you’ll be coming.</p>
<p>In the end D2 had doubts about the strengths of CC’s neuro dept. and the lack of neuro research options. (Only a few kinds of research available, almost exclusively behavioral based.) At CC neuro is thru the psych dept and D2 strongly wanted a biology-based approach.</p>
<p>The block system is interesting, but doesn’t work for everyone. It’s very easy to get behind very quickly by missing just 1 or 2 classes.</p>
<p>And Mizzbee, my point was referring to calmom’s question.You and I cross posted.;)</p>