<p>usna09mom,
I don't think your question bore repetition. As always, we get your point.</p>
<p>oopps.... guess I should have kept that one to myself! Oh my!</p>
<p>Let me try and redeem myself....</p>
<p>I do not advocate for breaking the rules-
as far as I know, we didn't break any-</p>
<p>and Jadler, I do respect the difficult job the cadre have in front of them... and had they asked our son if he "saw his parents," I trust his answer would have been "Sir, yes Sir!"....</p>
<p>just as I trust that had he been asked, "Did you have any contact with, or received words from, or spoke to your parents (other than a "visual sighting from 20+ yards out)," his answer would have been "Sir, no Sir."</p>
<p>Of that, I have no doubt.</p>
<p>USNA69-
surprisingly, the academy posts the schedule on-line as to the orioles game- and other events as well- it was also released to, and posted on, the parent's list serve. There are other events that get communicated around as well.... I recall the holocost visit in Washington as one of them....</p>
<p>As for the Orioles game, there were many spectators- no doubt parents amongst them- that lined up for the plebe's "march" down the brick path into the field- all to the beat of the D&B corps.... call it a "mini march" if you like--(I posted about "200" parents...but that is a huge assumption on my part...not so much the numbers, but rather who was who).....</p>
<p>the specatators kept a respectful distance- and there were lots of applause and lots of photos (thus, my assumption of "parents").... but the cadre looked relaxed and not the worst for it....
I did see one cadre ask the crowd to step back a bit- which they promptly did...I did not see any "direct contact" between spectators/parents and plebes...although I did hear some "Go charlies.... go deltas.... way to go foxtrots.... hoorah whatever..."</p>
<p>and other than the "invite" to pose with the mids (which came at the very end of the night as they lined up for the march back to the busses-by the Brigade Commander....who must certainly be knowledgable of the rules and regs.....) we, too, kept a very respectful distance...</p>
<p>usna09mom-
while USMA is a mule of a different color, there are many more similiarities than one might think-
we have had several friends "graduate" from the point-
and being just over an hour away, have spent many, many years with them attending football and lax games over the years....
our son has many friends there as well, in all 4 classes (lax is a very small community when all is said and done)-
and I will spare you the "funny stuff" that goes on all the time so as not to compromise your image....(including the adventures of his own overnight stay....compliments of the cows and firsties....)
oh, and one of my closest friends grew up right in Highland falls....(she could spit and if the wind was right, hit thayer gate)....
now her stories could curl your hair...</p>
<p>so despite the tradition, the respect/honor/duty/country, the aura and grandure of the place, the solomness of the mission..... there is still a very healthy sense of humor that is alive and well up on the hudson.... and I don't hear anyone calling that place a "summer camp for wayward children"....or "wayward parents" for that matter.</p>
<p>these places are not a joke-
nor do I suggest that they are all fun and games either-
on the contrary.
but thank goodness the cadets- and midshipmen- retain a healthy sense of humor admist all that they go through...
it is a healthy thing, IMO.</p>
<p>ps... the parents at USMA line up for the "new cadet" march-back from Fredrick Lake towards the end of "beast".... so much so that the ski slope the cadets must march up- and down- is littered with parents that wait all day for their arrival.....apparently they, too, have been doing it for years.</p>
<p>G'Night folks...</p>
<p>It is not Boot Camp it is Plebe Summer at the largest tourist attraction in Maryland. If USNA wanted to change that I am sure they would have but the fact remains it is the most visited site in Maryland and with that, as I said before, people take pictures. Who cares! I am still willing to bet it is not any worse than it ever has been, there just is the internet to facilitate sharing those pictures plus it provides an avenue for a discussion that can't seem to die.</p>
<p>It is funny because by the end of Plebe Summer if any of the 2011 parents ask their plebes if the picture takers were obnoxious, I will lay bets that most responses will be along the line of "what picture takers?" </p>
<p>A friend's Plebe (Class of 09) saw his Mother and Father on Thursday afternoon prior to his PPW. Cadre saw said plebe smile and wiggle (of course discretely) his fingers to indicate hello. Cadre walks up to Plebe and said Mr. ... your "Mother is dead" reply Yes Sir, "Your Father is Dead" again "Yes Sir" You have seen nothing here today. Friends could hear entire exchange and were somewhat horrified. Next morning at PPW Friday morning PEP, same Plebe sees his parents but tries not to stare. Cadre walks over and asks if he has seen his parents to which he replied "NO Sir they are Dead, I see Dead People" With that he was told to wave to mom and dad.</p>
<p>Thanks profmom...
you have truely made my day!</p>
<p>now I can "rest in peace"....
:)</p>
<p>I'm just glad I wasn't on the San Diego Freeway at 2:30 A.M. when Mr. Gore was doing 100 MPH in his little Toyota Prius (it must have been near liftoff), because he really was jeopardizing public safety and I'm glad no one was hurt or killed. One fact that hasn't been mentioned in the stories about Al Gore III, is that as a child he was seriously injured in a car accident that nearly took his life. He wasn't expected to live, and I imagine he has been on prescription drugs for much of his life as a result of his injuries. Clearly, he needs help. However, the reason you even read about it in the national news is because his father is famous, therefore the story becomes newsworthy. I'm sure Rush and others will have a field day with the story and blame the former vice president for the incident.</p>
<p>Rodeos are near the top of PETA's list of animal cruelty, just under bull fighting, animal circus acts and dog fights. If they took plebes to rodeos I would personally be out front protesting with the animal rights people! Love ya' Bill, but lay off the mojitos.</p>
<p>Do you remember the incident in the chapel restroom during plebe summer 2005? Or the kids in the bushes? I recall that a parent and their plebe met in the restroom 'by coincidence' during or after church services. The plebe GOT FRIED and all the parents heard about it. We all clearly understood no unauthorized contact on or off the Yard. It has nothing to do with being 'in awe of the Naval Academy;' it's about I-N-T-E-G-R-I-T-Y.</p>
<p>You're right though; it's just a handful of parents who in your words are "out of control." Then people wonder why there are so many honor/conduct violations. Last year I was talking to a local Navy parent about a youngster who sneaked her civilian sister into Bancroft Hall. The parent said, "Oh, kids will be kids." I couldn't believe her response. Guess what? Six months later this woman's firstie daughter was kicked out for conduct/honor offenses. </p>
<p>Still waiting to hear from the other SA parents.</p>
<p>"Next morning at PPW Friday morning PEP, same Plebe sees his parents but tries not to stare. Cadre walks over and asks if he has seen his parents to which he replied "NO Sir they are Dead, I see Dead People" With that he was told to wave to mom and dad."</p>
<p>What a clever way to phrase that! :D</p>
<p>Do we really need to bring politics into a thread named "Plebe Summer Pictures?" While I respect people's freedom of choosing their own political parties, it's out of place on this thread.</p>
<p>Hmmmm...took me a while to wade through this particular thread and since some of the issues have things in common with all the service academies I will weigh in on my perspective.</p>
<p>First: A comment was made that some entity was making available the training schedule of Plebe's during Plebe summer. In my humble opinion, particularly since 9/11 that is a BIG mistake. The safety of our cadets and midshipmen needs to come first. If Sam and Sally's mommy and daddy know where Sam and Sally are going to be training next tuesday, and what they will be doing, so could Joe Terrorist. West Point stopped making the training schedules public sometime after 2001, for both Beast summer and CBT summer. Iam surprised to hear that Navy hasn't taken the same precautions. No one outside of the academy should have information like that.</p>
<p>Second, I don't know the regulations at Navy regarding photography. At West Point, parents would not be allowed to follow along behind plebes with a camera once R day was over. I remember being told to put my video camera away while I was filming the Plain that day. Later that day telling 1000+ parents to put their video cameras away during the Oath Ceremony was probably a lost cause, but Im pretty sure that on R day + 1 they wouldn't have been tolerated if they were observed. Since 9/11 numerous barricades and cement barrriers have been erected at West Point to heighten security. Some gates have been closed. I have to believe that Navy and Air Force must have the same concerns.</p>
<p>Thirdly: Jadler brought up some very good points with regard to a parent phographing cadets in unauthorized areas. Come on, it really isn't a country club is it?</p>
<p>Bill is right, Navy isn't the Army. The facilities are different, the traditions are different and Plebe Summer is probably less like "Boot Camp" than Beast Barracks is at Army (sorry, no baseball games). But there are still people out there that mean to do American servicemen and women harm. Our cadets and midshipman are active duty. We need to afford them all the security we can while they train to do the hard work ahead.</p>
<p>Army and Navy need to operate as if they are military installations, not tourist attractions.</p>
<p>shogun-
fully appreciate the points you raise, especially re: security.
On that note, I will clarify that the information was posted on "secure" sites... with that, I refer to the parents listserve, for which one must register (and I assume be "cleared") by the moderators before you can "join the list"... so while I share your concerns, it is not raising the same level of alarm that perhaps it should....(as far as I know, non-mid parents are not given access to the listserve....)</p>
<p>I will agree that the security getting onto the post is a bit more arduous than USNA- but visitors can, and do, get on reguarly. I carry a camera with me all the time- and I have never been stopped on the post during any of my visits taking pictures- even of the cadets during noon formation. (I will go a step further and mention that it is a "stop" on the bus tour if the hours coincide!) During our son's overnight, we toured- and photographed-lots of pics....just as we did at a wedding last fall....hard to resist the beauty and history of West Point!</p>
<p>So while I have noticed some beefed up security getting on the post -post 9/11, and perhaps a bit more getting into Mitchie stadium, the rest hasn't really changed much over the last 25+ years we have been visiting....more "car searches" for sure....that I will grant you.... and they did expand some fencing....( will admit the revised traffic patterns to exit through Thayer still throw me.....).... but then again, they did allow "Trading Spaces" to re-do one of the prof's homes....one of the beauties overlooking the Hudson if I recall....broadcast on channel whatever....</p>
<p>I think everyone agrees that "non-public areas" are "off limits"....no matter which academy one's feet are on. And I could not agree with you more...this is important work for which they are being trained- and everyone needs to respect that.....</p>
<p>As for the "country club"....
USNA is no more a country club than West Point is a hillside resort, or USAFA a mountain retreat.
But I will leave it to Jadler and the other Mids to address this point....
different focus- different training- same mission- all difficult.</p>
<p>Well apparently USNA IS A country club (according to the Supe)....in the Dants draft for next semester, there is going to be a <strong>HUGE CUT</strong> in liberty.</p>
<p>The oblique reference to a rodeo has to do w/ USAFA night out; I think they call it Doolie night where they take the cadets to a rodeo in Colorado Springs. So, you may want to pack a bag to join the protest later this summer.</p>
<p>The Academies are what they are. Each one of them.</p>
<p>The WP parents net won't post a CFT or CBT schedule. The one that was floating around was 6 years old. This was discussed recently again on the list serve and the security reasons for that were reiterated again for at least the 3rd year that I have been on it. The number of concrete barriers (not just at the gates but in areas such as around the supes house), and areas posted as "cadets only" has also increased since we began going in 2005.
But as you say, the academies are what they are and we'll just have to leave it to the Army and Navy to decide what is prudent security for our Mids and Cadets. It does seem that perhaps things need to be "tightened up" at Annapolis based on the posts on this thread.</p>
<p>I’ve read this thread and watched it unfold with ever increasing amazement. I apologize in advance for my inability to sit on the sidelines and just bite my lip. After the last few incessant and redundant posts I’ve bitten right through it.
I don’t think I’d put myself or my wife for that matter under the heading of a “Helo” parent. We dropped our Plebe to be off on I-day, walked over the Alumni hall and said our goodbyes for the day. We didn’t spend any time peering into windows or standing at doorways waiting to catch a glimpse of our child. It never occurred to me that I should have called in a squad of baton wielding riot police to beat back the parents that wanted to stay connected to their son of daughter a little longer. We all deal with times like I-day in our own ways and I don’t begrudge any parent that wants to stay close to their child as they move on into what will likely be one of the more challenging times of their lives. Part of our responsibility as parents, particularly of Plebes is to provide encouragement and emotional support for them as they acclimate to this new life. If a parent sees an image of their child and that photo lifts them up in any way, and puts them in a better position to support their son/daughter, how is that a bad thing? All you need do is spend a few moments reading the heartfelt comments posted by so many parents who found their son or daughter in those photos to gain some appreciation for what it means to them. While on Academy grounds should parents obey the rules when it comes to areas that are off-limits etc., should they be respectful of activities and maintain a reasonable distance etc? Certainly and there will always be some that fail to do so.
So am I concerned about the state of security at the Academy? Compared to what? One of the back up colleges my Plebe applied to was Virginia Tech, not exactly a high value, very visible target in the eyes of a terrorist. Would my child have been safer there? The fact is I can’t think of many places on this earth where I believe my child would be safer than at the Naval Academy. Turing the Academy into a high security lockup seems a bit absurd particularly when you think about their mission. What is the point of training our young men and women to fight for our freedoms if we choose to sacrifice that freedom so quickly in pursuit of “security”? There will always be 10 more things you could do to “increase security” When does it end? If I took a tour of the Academy and then spent 24 hours with a copy of the Academy map, (available at the visitors center), a clip board, a pair of binoculars and a watch I’d have all the information I need.
Do I believe the Superintendent of the Academy would benefit from my sage advice on security at the academy should I choose to post it here? One of the most reassuring things I heard during my time at I-Day was the comments by both the Superintendent and Commandant regarding the priority they placed on the safety and security of my child, spoken as administrators of the Academy and as parents themselves. I take them at their word.
The last thing I will say is this; the Academy never has been, is not now and never well be, anything close to a country club. Yet reading some of the posts in this thread makes me wonder if in order to appease some who have posted here the Navy would have to bring back flogging.</p>
<p>
[quote]
makes me wonder if in order to appease some who have posted here the Navy would have to bring back flogging.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>:eek:</p>
<p>oh my!</p>
<p>Jadler....other than drastic cuts in liberty (across all classes I presume?) what are the other changes being mentioned? Is this something you can share? What impact on your "life" at the academy will they have, assuming there are other changes in store?</p>
<p>no specific reason for asking, just curious as to what to expect....
(and hoping "flogging" isn't on the agenda! ;) )</p>
<p>Authorized websites posting plebe summer photos:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.usna.edu%5B/url%5D">www.usna.edu</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.usna.com%5B/url%5D">www.usna.com</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.usna.org%5B/url%5D">www.usna.org</a></p>
<p>Thornton's Studios</p>
<p><a href="http://www.navy.mil/%5B/url%5D">www.navy.mil/</a></p>
<p>The Naval Academy administration has made a reasonable effort to provide families with wonderful photos of the plebe summer experience. All but one of these sites is free of charge too. Additionally, a percentage of Thornton's profits are donated to the Brigade.</p>
<p>I've read that the master plan for the Yard includes heightened security too.
I think Shogun would agree that a major security issue at all of the SA's is the dining hall.</p>
<p>Well amazing.... so much controversy over the subject of Photographs! Whodathought! :) And all I want to know is where is Lola? Have found one photo in searching all the websites. :( I guess she is tucked away securely on the Yard of USNA hiding from all those "evil" (j/k) Photographer Moms doing her "rates" and "rack races" (whatever those are). Well, there is always tomorrows' photos to peruse and I really don't care who takes them at this point. :) Isn't this fun?!</p>
<p>Okay, I know this is about a week late, however.....regarding the baton wielding police...I sure could have used one of their batons to knock the rude parents (friends&sibs) off of their chairs as they were standing on them to get a supreme glimpse as our plebes marched into Tecumsuh for the swearing in. I thought Ihad found a decent seat, albeit not too close,when much to my surprise several onlookers to my left and right were popping up and standing on their chairs. I sure hope some of you that thought your view was more important than the rest of us have posted your photos for all to see.</p>
<p>USNA09mom,
Im not sure what the dining hall is like at Navy but at West Point, Washington Hall is pretty secure. There are no windows accessable enough to "peer in" from the outside and it is strictly off limits to non-academy personnel except for rare functions like the PPW dinner.</p>
<p>This is a quote from USAFAWEBGUY.COM "I'll head into Mitchell Hall and start snapping photos of the Basics eating. I'll try to take a lot of pictures. Also, I'm taking our video guy up there. He'll take some footage and probably have it ready before your Basic graduates in four years. (Slam!) Nah, he'll probably have it ready on Monday." </p>
<p><a href="http://www.usafawebguy.com/?q=node/127%5B/url%5D">http://www.usafawebguy.com/?q=node/127</a></p>
<p>So come on over and take a look around......</p>
<p>usna09mom you are making an assumption that the two dropshot ladies are "not approved" Last year they were, what is it that makes think that this year they are not? You also are surprising me, I thought you always leaned to the left yet your posts here make me beleive that you are way farther right than you maybe think you are.... Personally the terrorists have won if you want my Mid to live in conditions that mirror a lockdown prison. </p>
<p>Heightened security on the yard...what a new gate 1? Lets see over the past year I don't even need a vehicle (Fona) pass to drive onto the yard as long as I have my Midshipmen Parent Pass - which has no picture on it. Last time driving on the yard the guard told me that as long as I had the Midshipman Parent Pass they did not even need my drivers license!</p>
<p>On the USNA.edu web page you can find the schedules for all of the Plebe Summer Parades, there is a document that outlines the typical Plebe Summer Day etc. The Academy publishes all of this information. Would they do this if they thought there was a security issue? So Thorntons site takes it a step farther (obviously provided by the Academy or how would they even know where the Plebes are for the day) and tells parents that on XYZ day Company Z is going to the O Course. I bet some terrorist ring really cares about what company Z is doing. And then lets not forget that many of the Company Officers will start communicating with the Parents. Last year my son's Company Officer set up a yahoo group where he and the Company leadership provided pictures, room assignments within Bancroft, schedules, and general information as to what was going on. He certainly wasn't concerned about having informed parents.</p>
<p>What is all of the concern over the dining hall? You all know that you can eat in King or Dahlgren as a guest for Wednesday evening meal? (maybe even other night just know hubby went for Wed night) Nothing too secret going on while they serve sub-par food!</p>
<p>rjrzoom57 great post! :)</p>
<p>Mom2Lola don't fret, I sure one of these day you will hit gold, and those beautiful curls while be in many a picture!</p>