"Police Brutality" at Brown

Colleges and Universities A-Z Brown University
1

<p>Brunonian2010,</p>

<p>I would rather have our conversation here because it would be an utter fallacy for either of us to claim we know the whole story, and I hope that others can supplement this discussion.</p>

<p>Let me explain to you what I know of the situation that happened in sept 06, and you explain to me why the police officer must have been acting on racist pretenses.</p>

<p>A student was seen attempting to get into I believe Sears House and seemingly failing to do so. Another student saw this guy, and called DPS to alert them of “a suspicious person attempting to enter a university dorm.” The perp was described as a black male wearing some outfit and of a particular build. (Whether or not this other student felt intimidated simply because the guy was black is not up for discussion here, I am trying to defend the police officer’s, not this student’s actions). A DPS officer is then dispatched to the Wriston Quad area where he sees a black male student of the same build and wearing the same outfit as described to him by the dispatcher. He then approaches the student and asks to see his Brown ID. It says in the student handbook that students are required to show ID if prompted by an officer. The student refuses to show ID and flees from the officer. The officer reports that the perp has fled, and another nearby officer sees the student and tackles him. Given that the student refused to show his ID, I’m going to say it’s fair of me to assume he fought back a little upon being tackled, thus provoking the officer to take actions deemed necessary to defend himself.</p>

<p>In a court of law, it’s innocent until proven guilty; however, on the street, police officers are trained to think the opposite. For their, and the people around them’s safety, they are supposed to assume you might be dangerous until you prove otherwise. It’s the reason why you hear that you’re not supposed to make sudden movements when talking to an officer or initiate any sort of physical contact with them.</p>

<p>While it’s unfortunate what happened to him, I do feel a lot of the blame rests on the student. Presumably, had he shown his Brown ID to the officer initially, there wouldn’t have been a problem.</p>

2

<p>To add a couple of small tidbits-- I believe the event occurred around 3am and the second officer was a Providence Police officer. Brown sometimes hires PVD Police to cover some extra hours when we don't have enough DPS officers to roam at any given time. So though he was a Providence Police officer he was patrolling the Brown U area at the U's request (this program has since been reduced or eliminated, I can't recall which). Yes, he was responding to a radio which informed him that a student had fled a DPS officer through the Main Green and had exited on Waterman in the Faunce Arch area.</p>

3

<p>oh ok, so he must have been trying to get into hope</p>

4

<p>what kind of injuries did he have?</p>

5

<p>IwannabeBrown your narrative of the story is quite accurate save for two descriptions. First the black male in question did NOT "flee" from DPS. He stated that he was not showing his Brown ID and walked away. It was then that the Providence Police officer was called in to the situation. The PVD officer proceeded to beat the student until he sustained severe injuries to his head and face. He was hospitalized afterwards. And second the description given to DPS was incredibly vague with the height description stating he was a black male between, 5'8-6'2, with a white shirt on.</p>

<p>So what is operating here. Well for starters the description given to the officers made most black men suspects. Why were officers allowed to begin an investigation with such a general description of the suspect? Findings from the Coalition for Police Accountability and Institutional Transparency (CoPAIT) showed that such descriptions were common when people of color were suspects. The implications of this is extreme racial profiling. </p>

<p>The second dynamic playing out is notion of "us vs. them". That is the larger Providence community and the Brown comunity. I have seen the groans and distateful looks Brown students toss at Hope High schools who walk through campus but the nods of approval given to students of color on tour groups. In other words, at Brown there is this need to determine which blacks and latinos belong to us and which belong to the Providence community, a community perceived by many as a haven for crime. </p>

<p>What are the implications of this. When a black Brown student wears cornrolls, baggy clothes, and basketball sneakers, the Brown community percieves this (subconsciously or not) as him delineating himself from the stereotypical "Brown student" and aligning himself with the stereotypical "Providence gang member." That is racist. When I wear my polo shirt and khacki slacks, Brown students don't question my legitimacy, but when I throw on my jersey DPS asks to see my ID. Anecdotally, this is the general sentiment of ALOT of black and latino students and was the experience of several alumni. Do I think the DPS and PVD officers acted on these stereotypes? I do.</p>

<p>Finally there is also gender operating here. So let's place race aside fro a sec. I believe that most police officers would not tackle or beat a female suspect in this same situation, why should they do that to a male? Is that just? We internalize the images we see on COPS while simultaneously internalizing the "never-hit-a-girl rule" so that when a male at Brown is beaten it "makes sense". Now let's inject race. Black men are seen as agressive, gangters, dangerous all of which heighten the gender dynamics that I mentioned earlier. It changes the semantics to not only "can" we brutalize them because their male but we "should" brutalize them because their dangerous.....because they are black. That is racist. Do I think the DPS and PVD officers acted on these stereotypes? I do. </p>

<p>So how does this effect students of color. Well in order for us to avoid such a situtation we have to fit the "Brown mold." We have to talk like men and women brought up in rural New Hampshire when officers ask us questions. We have to dress like Carlton on the Fresh Prince of Bel-AIr in order to avoid stereotyping, we have cut our hair low or straighten it, ...anything but cornrolls and dreadlocks in order to separate ourselves from the "dangerous" Providence community. In short we have to normalize whiteness. The more we deviate from it the more we put ourselves at risk.
This is why during campus protests student's acclaimed "We are what a Brown student looks like!"</p>

<p>Do I think the DPS and PVD officers used racial stereotypes to guage whether Chipalo ---a gradute student in the Engineering department that rocks fresh cornrolls---was a Brown student? I do</p>

6

<p>Am I saying that 100% sure that there was absolutely no race at play here: no? Am I saying that the cop was justified in his actions and that I think the response to the situation was a little absurd: yes.</p>

<p>Let me go through each point:</p>

<p>The suspect was described as 5'8-6'2 black male wearing white t-shirt. Well like I said initially, I don't care how racist the person who called him in is, that's not up for discussion. And as unfortunately inclusive as that description is, you bet your ass I want the police to stop every one who fits that description who is spotted in the area reported within minutes of the report being made. It would be negligence not to, especially at 3am, when you and I both know that campus/providence is a ****ing ghost town. (If say, the next day there were a rash of black males on campus being stopped and questioned, then I would suspect something)</p>

<p>I don't care if he hopped on one foot away from the police officer. The rules clearly state that you must stop and show your ID to an officer if asked. He didn't.</p>

<p>As I said, if this student didn't feel the need to stop and show his ID, I'm not putting it past him to fight back upon being tackled by an officer. Until we know he didn't, I'm going to assume he did, and that the officer resorted to that force because he deemed it necessary.</p>

<p>He would have been taken to a hospital regardless of his injuries, which if I recall (and I may be wrong), were only scratches and bruises.</p>

<p>The one thing that I always find unbelieveably hypocritical about things like these is that the biggest argument against the police and racial profiling is that it's unfair to assume that simply because someone is of a particular skin tone that they are a criminal. Why is it ok then to assume that the police officer's actions are so racist? Until we can prove that his actions were uncalled for, I am going to believe that the police officer did what was necessary. It's innocent until proven guilty. As I stated, the police do not have the luxury of opperating this way because of safety concerns. A black male in a white t-shirt of average height being spotted minutes after a report of suspicious behavior by a black male of average height in a white t-shirt should be stopped by the police. It is unfortunate that this guy made some very foolish decisions and violated a Brown University rule which led to a situation that ended with his getting hurt.</p>

7

<p>iwannabeBrown, you didn't "go through each point" as you stated, only those that were convenient for you to address. But I will be more than happy to speak on all of yours. </p>

<p>"Am I saying that 100% sure that there was absolutely no race at play here: no? Am I saying that the cop was justified in his actions and that I think the response to the situation was a little absurd: yes."</p>

<p>None of my arguments assumed that you stated otherwise. I was narrating the societal factors at play when a white cop encounters a black suspect. So at least we can agree on this point. </p>

<p>"The suspect was described as 5'8-6'2 black male wearing white t-shirt. Well like I said initially, I don't care how racist the person who called him in is, that's not up for discussion."</p>

<p>Re-read my post. I asked the question, "Why were officers allowed to begin an investigation with such a general description of the suspect?" This has nothing to do with the racism person who called him in but the racism of DPS for allowing virtually all black males on campus to become suspects. Most black mean are between the heights of 5'8-6'2 and white is not an uncommon shirt color. Not only is this racist it is ineffective. If DPS is supposed to catch perpetrators vague descriptions are unprofessional and many atimes racist. </p>

<p>"And as unfortunately inclusive as that description is, you bet your ass I want the police to stop every one who fits that description who is spotted in the area reported within minutes of the report being made"</p>

<p>First of all your tone is unnecessary. I'm not betting my ass on anything. You said yourself general descriptions are unfortunate. But I urge you to put yourself in the shoes of a black person at Brown to see the magnitude of how unfortunate this phenomenon is. To have the color of yor skin, which has been used as a means of slavery, discrimination, self-hate, violence, to have your blackness continually pidgeonhole you as a criminal. </p>

<p>"The rules clearly state that you must stop and show your ID to an officer if asked. He didn't."</p>

<p>I agree this is where the student was wrong. The question now and the question I was addressing was whether or not beating him until his face was broken in was necessary. Again I argue that not only is that brutality but racism is playing out in that scenario BIG TIME. </p>

<p>"He would have been taken to a hospital regardless of his injuries, which if I recall (and I may be wrong), were only scratches and bruises."</p>

<p>You are wrong.</p>

<p>"The one thing that I always find unbelieveably hypocritical about things like these is that the biggest argument against the police and racial profiling is that it's unfair to assume that simply because someone is of a particular skin tone that they are a criminal. Why is it ok then to assume that the police officer's actions are so racist?"</p>

<p>The two ideas are not equatable. Both actors i.e. the suspect and the police officer belong to the same narrative being told in this thread but the power dynamics are inbalanced. In your quote you frame philosophical question as a comparison when it is not. The reality is when police stereotype people of color, people of color are beaten, arrested, sent to Guantanamo Bay, locked up in internment camps, lynched etc. (DId you catch the historical references). But when a person of color calls a police officer racist in a racist society what are the repercussions? Slap on the wrist, suspension maybe. It is no wonder then that officers who COPAIT cited as being raciially offensive to student have recieved no disciplinary action.</p>

8

<p>Yeah, I misspoke, I meant to say that I would address the points I thought were relevant to the discussion. Your clarifications made me realize that your points were lost in a sea of what I would consider to be other points outside the scope of the initial discussion.</p>

<p>To be honest, this is the only point where I still feel like you're wrong:</p>

<p>Re-read my post. I asked the question, "Why were officers allowed to begin an investigation with such a general description of the suspect?" This has nothing to do with the racism person who called him in but the racism of DPS for allowing virtually all black males on campus to become suspects. Most black mean are between the heights of 5'8-6'2 and white is not an uncommon shirt color. Not only is this racist it is ineffective. If DPS is supposed to catch perpetrators vague descriptions are unprofessional and many atimes racist.</p>

<p>It's because there is almost never more than that to go on, and at 3am, in a place where very few people are outside at that point, I don't think it's racist to take a few mins and look around the immediate area.</p>

<p>The thing I really didn't like about the whole incident was how one sided it felt, but reminding me that they didn't receive any punishment (which I had forgotten was the case) points out that it wasn't really so one sided. On campus at least, I felt like it was practically a crime against humanity to place any faith in the officer's decision, and that is wrong. No where did COPAIT point out that the student had violated a rule that had he obeyed would have saved himself from the physical harm. It was only through the BDH did I get any picture of someone other than a perfect angel being savagely brutalized by the police.</p>

9

<p>"Yeah, I misspoke, I meant to say that I would address the points I thought were relevant to the discussion. Your clarifications made me realize that your points were lost in a sea of what I would consider to be other points outside the scope of the initial discussion."</p>

<p>That's a part of the problem. You refuse to see how all of the aforementioned dynamics are interconnected. Hopefully other viewers of this thread won't repeat your mistake. </p>

<p>"It's because there is almost never more than that to go on, and at 3am, in a place where very few people are outside at that point, I don't think it's racist to take a few mins and look around the immediate area."</p>

<p>You are still missing the point. DPS officers looking around at 3am is NOT what I am calling racist. It is the fact that they COULD look around with such a vague description. As I said that is unprofessional, inefficient, and in many cases racist. If, for example, my description of someone who robbed me was a white male height 5'7-6'1 in blue jeans think of how ineffective the search would be at Brown. In fact, the ineffectiveness of it could become so daunting that DPS might not even pursue it. Am I suggesting DPS not pursue such cases? Not necessarily. But I do believe the protocol must be changed. </p>

<p>"No where did COPAIT point out that the student had violated a rule that had he obeyed would have saved himself from the physical harm."</p>

<p>That simply is not true. CoPAIT stated the incident the same way you did (save the corrections I made) at several occasions. It's just that the conversations on campus were very black and white. Most students did not seek to debate the nuances at play.</p>

10

<p>I think saying that DPS would not pursue such a vague description if that description said "white male" as opposed to "black male" is purely speculative.</p>

<p>It's their job to pursue any call, and it's my assumption they would respond regardless of the situation and how well I described it if for no other reason than their very presence in a particular location makes it less likely a crime will occur.</p>

<p>Interestingly, I also kind of think it's a moot point because if I recall, Chipalo was, in fact, exactly who was attempting to get into a dorm. So the police did not even misidentify the person who was allegedly causing a disturbance...</p>

11

<p>First incorrect fact,
a student was attempting to get into Keeney not Sears not Hope.</p>

<p>Second incorrect fact,
“I’m going to say it’s fair of me to assume he fought back a little upon being tackled”</p>

<p>Not according to what the student has said OR what two witnesses at the scene said</p>

<p>Third incorrect fact,
“the officer to take actions deemed necessary to defend himself”
If the officer tackled the student, as in had him on the ground, as in the officer is on top and the student crushed under his wait because he was tackled. Why would the officer need to defend himself by beating the student? I saw this person after it happened and it the wounds were not little. He was hospitalized. If the officer had him tackled to the ground and he did not resist, why not just pin him down and arrest him, why beat him so extremely?</p>

<p>Forth incorrect fact
“Presumably, had he shown his Brown ID to the officer initially, there wouldn't have been a problem”</p>

<p>Yes there would still be a problem. There might not be a problem for you but this ID policy puts non-white males, particularly black males in a terrible place. Let's examine this ok. if most people hold on to stereotypes of what a criminal is and these stereotypes are based on race (and gender) than most people are going to report based on a racist bias, as in most people who are carded will be carded on a racist bias. Also, cops have asked for ID in cases when NO ONE HAS CALLED IN. is this not racist? to randomly stop men of color, particularly black men, and force them to show ID for NO REASON other than racist notions about who is "safe" and who is not?</p>

<p>Do you know what it is like to HAVE to carry your ID EVERY SINGLE DAY. I don't mean that you happen to carry it often I mean that you MUST carry it EVERY day or fear being beaten. The student that night didn't have his ID on him. is that a crime? is that something he should be beaten for? Now, granted maybe you think the student was rude or should have explained or should have stopped walking but those things are not an attack, they are not threatening behavior, they are not deserving of being beaten.</p>

12

<p>There is a huge problem with what you're saying LadyK. Brown requires that as a member of the Brown community you are capable of producing your ID at all time. It is against Brown policy and within their rights to police that policy on campus after hours when the campus is technically no longer considered a pubich space.</p>

<p>I bring my ID everywhere with me on campus even though I no longer need it for food or housing and therefore have no reason to have my Brown ID other than to produce it if it's requested by a faculty member or DPS officer. That's the policy. It goes in my wallet and stays there for 4 years, period.</p>

<p>No one is talking about instances where cops solicit IDs without their being calls and whether that is done fairly or not. That's not this case/incident.</p>

<p>This is an incident where there was a call. The correct person was identified by police and he did not comply with a reasonable request which Brown policy dictates you must be capable of complying with, specifically. He then fled the scene.</p>

<p>What happened after that, I know markedly less about and withhold judgment. But did DPS and Providence Police not only have the right, but actually, the imperative to pursue him? The answer is yes.</p>

13

<p>"I think saying that DPS would not pursue such a vague description if that description said "white male" as opposed to "black male" is purely speculative."</p>

<p>COMPLETELY missed my point. Please re-read that portion of my response. </p>

<p>"It's their job to pursue any call, and it's my assumption they would respond regardless of the situation and how well I described it if for no other reason than their very presence in a particular location makes it less likely a crime will occur."</p>

<p>That is a possible solution to the currently racist protocol. If the description is too vague DPS officers can show up at the site in question to prevent the occurrence of a crime. Good thinking. </p>

<p>"Interestingly, I also kind of think it's a moot point because if I recall, Chipalo was, in fact, exactly who was attempting to get into a dorm. So the police did not even misidentify the person who was allegedly causing a disturbance..."</p>

<p>Are you kidding me? A. consider all of the back students at Brown and black members of the Providence community that were stopped by DPS before Chipalo was. B. Simply because the suspect in question was found in this situation does not negate the fact that vague descriptions are ineffective and racist. If we are going solve the issue of police brutality at Brown we need to examine DPS and PPD's structural shortcomings.</p>

14

<p>Vague descriptions are not inherently racist. </p>

<p>It was dark, all I could tell was he was black, from the distance away I was I'd estimate he was at least my height (5'8") but may have been as tall as 6'. He was wearing jeans and a white shirt and after he attempted to enter university property unsuccessfully he walked away on foot in X direction.</p>

<p>What's the correct response:</p>

<p>DPS ignores the call because the description didn't include some kind of defining characteristic.</p>

<p>DPS dispatches an officer to the area who begins at the scene and moves towards the same direction the suspect was last seen walking, keeping an eye out for suspicious activity, other students who may have seen this man, or the man himself to determine the nature, if any threat, was present.</p>

<p>Now, go back, and replace black with white and white with black. Same question?</p>

<p>In my opinion, the answer both times is the latter, not the former.</p>

15

<p>What I was saying still holds. Cops solicit IDs without their being calls and it is done based on race. they even admit it's done based on race. they think this policy is acceptable. All im saying is that the student got upset, rightly so, at a policy that is actively racist and walked by. this is not the same as fleeing AND the fact remains that according to his statements AND that of witnesses he did NOT resist. the officer beat him for no reason. the officer beat him for NO reason. was that officer racist? yes. was that police brutality? yes. I'm not sure how you can see it any other way.</p>

<p>to bring it back to the original point which was made on the other thread. is dps and ppd racist? yes. That ID policy, that says yes we are going to go around and randomly, for no reason, search "suspicious" (i.e. black/colored) people even when nothing is directly reported - the policy that is dps will card whoever they want whenever they want without needing a cause simply because they think they are suspicious IS racist. and the fact that something like that incident of police brutality happened at Brown shows that there is clearly racism here. by your logic cops were correct in arresting Rosa Parks for not complying with a racist law. even more, by your logic they should have not only arrested but beat her to the ground for not complying.</p>

16

<p>To answer your question, the former both times, there was no crime committed. What exactly would an officer be looking to arrest him for? Walking outside at 3am? Is that a crime?</p>

17

<p>Attempting to force entry into a university (i.e. private) building.</p>

<p>I'm not judging any larger possible issues, so stop changing the scenario.</p>

<p>Suspicious activity/attempted entry into a university building was witnessed by a student. That student called in that problem, officers responded at the scene and were able to stop the correctly identified person. That person was asked for Brown identification, which, had it been produced, would have exonerated him. Were he not able to produce identification and instead explained the situation, we don't know what the result would have been. Instead, a third option, ignoring the reasonable and lawful request of an officer, was chosen. The result was a pursuit which ended in violence. I'm only saying that responding to the call and pursuing the uncooperative individual was within DPS's rights. I have no idea what happened in the ensuing struggle and cannot tell you what the person who made the phone call was thinking or why they were thinking it, nor is that information critical to my point.</p>

18

<p>ladyk, not presenting his ID was actually a direct violation of Brown's student code, and actually, I believe that you are required by law to stop for an officer if he asks you to and while you don't have to answer his questions (5th ammendment), you have to stop and let him ask them. Would you keep driving if a police officer tried to pull you over and you didn't suspect he had a good reason for it? Regardless of how corrupted by race you believe the system to be, I hope you realize that not cooperating with the police is the easiest way to escalate a situation with them regardless of race.</p>

<p>Whether or not these rules are fair is not at play in the heat of the moment. If you'd like to make an appeal, there's a way to do it, but when the police are correctly questioning you because you are the person who was reported to them by someone else, that is not the time to challenge policy unless you're willing to deal with the consequences.</p>

<p>Also, here are some examples of things that a witness might not consider threatening motions that a police officer is supposed to:
Reaching towards your pockets/waistband (you may be reaching for your gun/knife)
Reaching towards the officer's waistband (you may be reaching for his gun)
Moving your hands towards an officer's face (you may be trying to injure the officer)</p>

<p>I'm willing to admit that the officer may have overreacted in striking the student if you're willing to admit that the student isn't necessarily as much of a victim as some people try to make him out to be.</p>

19

<p>" when the police are correctly questioning you because you are the person who was reported to them by someone else, that is not the time to challenge policy unless you're willing to deal with the consequences. "</p>

<p>1) my point still stands. if the policy is wrong/racist is this still the case? by your logic cops were correct in arresting Rosa Parks for not complying with a racist law. even more, by your logic they should have not only arrested but beat her to the ground for not complying...... ??</p>

<p>2) the "consequences" should not have been being beaten. Why is there so much blind love for officers here when the whole thing is clearly a case of police brutality?</p>

20

<p>is it ever ok to not respond or to respond poorly to an officer? I would say yes, it is ok to do that in cases when the law, the officer, is in the wrong. You cannot just look at this case/how the law works in this case and separate it from the greater moral and social issues at play on this campus and with this policy.</p>