Pomona, Claremont McKenna & Scripps

College Search & Selection
1

<p>How to choose?</p>

<p>My d. is drawn to all three of these - she's looking for a great LAC, and loves the idea the Claremont consortium, where you have the benefits of small schools, with some of the advantages of a larger school. And being in a warm climate sounds great (she's from Massachusetts). Academically, she's probably within reach of these - top 5% of class from a good public school, 4.3 GPA, good SATs, good EC (with all the usual caveats about how hard it is to get into any good LAC).</p>

<p>Can anyone help with what they see as the differences between these? Input from the folks actually attending is especially appreciated.</p>

<p>Her potential interests are international relations, history, sociology/social psychology, languages, literature. She enjoys see how things are interrelated, and is fascinated by cultures. EC interests include art, music and fencing</p>

<p>About Claremont McKenna & leadership -She's not the classic "leader" in the sense of the president of a club, but sees herself as the leader/doer type - the one who helps get things organized, gets buy-in. The reliable second-in-command that makes it happen, and who'll speak up she doesn't believe in the path chosen. Does that work with the types of leadership that are the focus at Claremont McKenna?</p>

<p>I know she could apply to all three, but we're trying to see if there are ways to shorten the application list.</p>

<p>Other schools of interest: Tufts, Trinity (CT), Brown, U Chicago, Reed, George Washington</p>

<p>Thanks</p>

2

<p>Looking at USNWR data can help to see where students go after graduation:</p>

<p>% going on to grad school within 5 years; % to Business School, % to Law School, % to Med School, % to Arts and Sciences Grad School</p>

<p>Pomona: 85%; 12%B, 12%L, 12%M, 48% Grad
CMC: 60%; 13%B, 25%L, 9%M, 42% Grad
Scripps: 39%; 0%B, 13%L, 7%M, 60% Grad</p>

<p>In general, Pomona is a highly selective liberal school with strong programs in science, math, international relations, humanities, among others (D attends).</p>

<p>CMC is highly selective, less liberal with business/pre-law orientation.</p>

<p>Scripps is all-women, less selective, known for music and fine arts, beautiful campus and dorms, great food (don't know as much about this school tho)</p>

<p>My personal opinion - she seems perfect for Pomona.</p>

3

<p>My daughter did an overnight preview at Scripps and loved the feel of the place. I'd prefer Pomona for more choices, if I thought she could get in.BTW, Scripps is less selective them CMC and Pomona, but still pretty selective. Still, stats wise, if your considering CMC and Pomona, not a problem for your daughter.</p>

4

<p>Terrific info about the stats - I'm a numbers kind of person, so I find it very interesting. </p>

<p>Doesn't look like Scripps is sending very many to business school, which is probably just fine for my d.</p>

<p>My d has been in love with Pomona for a while now, and it does seem like a good match, but as we all know, it's not easy liking a school that is very hard to get into. </p>

<p>Claremont plays to another part of her, which is the "get it done" part. </p>

<p>Scripps has recently reached out to my d, and on reading more about it, it too looks like a good match. Hence the question. </p>

<p>Hey, when we went to the presentation, to be honest, Harvey Mudd sounded great too, though she doesn't plan to go into the sciences. </p>

<p>It's just a great group of schools.</p>

5

<p>I would drop Scripps and apply to Pomona and CMC.</p>

6

<p>The differences are most important in the general ed requirements, which courses one has to take on which campus to fulfill one's major, and which people one ends up socializing with, with the least amount of effort. My S who is a senior at CMC has taken classes at all the colleges except Harvey Mudd (and only because he's intimidated. For myself, their humanities classes look like the most interesting!)</p>

<p>My advice is to closely read the course catalogs - read the actual class descriptions and imagine which classes your D would actually like to enroll in. Each college has a different academic slant. CMC tends to have classes oriented towards more pragamatic subject matter, Pomona is often more theoretical/analytical.</p>

<p>My S, just by choosing which classes interest him most, has taken the majority of his classes at CMC which makes me feel he made the right choice of college. But every semester he's had a class at another college. Scripps' classes have been among his most challenging. His internship this year is through Pitzer. </p>

<p>He has many friends at all the colleges, although Pomona tends to socialize less with the other C's. On the other hand, he eats at Pomona all the time! Coming from a Northern California lefty upbringing, some of the CMC future i-bankers have been an eye-opener for him, as well as some of the Professors (friends of Scalia and such) - but he's gravitated towards a more diverse crowd - which definitely is there. On the other hand, it's been a great experience for him to be exposed to other points of view!</p>

<p>Despite the public emphasis on leadership, government and economics, the history, philosophy, religion, and psychology departments at CMC are very strong. I've heard the English department is too, but my S has avoided it as much as humanly possible. And the Joint Science department is great.</p>

<p>All in all, I think your D can't go wrong with any of the three. From your description I think she'd be happy at all of them. So, again, my advice is to actually have her try to pick a course schedule for the semester and see where the majority of the classes actually are. (You just go to the portal to see a list of all current courses. - have her put together an actual schedule.) There are also some helpful old threads on the Scripps forum: <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=146588%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=146588&lt;/a>
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=8086%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=8086&lt;/a>
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=122040%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?t=122040&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

7

<p>I am also interested in CMC and Pomona. If one had to choose between the one to, what do u think would be important to look at?</p>

8

<p>Great idea to do the course catalog. And thanks for the old threads - very helpful.</p>

9

<p>In case you can't figure out how to look at the course schedule for all 5C's here's a link to the Portal:
<a href="https://portal.claremontmckenna.edu/ics/coursecatalog?%5B/url%5D"&gt;https://portal.claremontmckenna.edu/ics/coursecatalog?&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>All classes are listed for all the colleges.</p>

10

<p>Reading your original post, Scripps stood out to me as the best fit. It was their interdisciplinary approach (Core is the obvious example) that really caught my eye. Scripps' strengths tend to be seen as literature, languages, and arts (the most popular majors are Studio Art, Psych, Politics, English, and Bio). That said, all three of the schools are certainly viable fits (and I am biased ;)).</p>

<p>I would say that the single most important thing to do before shortening this list is to VISIT Claremont. If you can't visit and if all three schools do sound appealing to your daughter, then I'd really encourage her to apply to all three. They're vastly different, but all wonderful, and the last thing you'll want is for her to just choose to apply to two, visit them, and find that she loves the third. There's so much you can't get from guidebooks. It's one thing when a "would've-could've-should've" school is out of sight and out of mind, but it's another when you have a set-up like Claremont and you could potentially wind up having that school right next door. Inter-Claremont transfers do happen, and often for this sort of reason.</p>

<p>If it really is important that the list gets cut down, I would personally suggest that your daughter cut CMC. Not because it isn't a great school, but because it seems the least in line (of the three) with the diversity of your daughter's interests, and even though it's the school that is most vocal about the importance of leadership, it's certainly not the only place in Claremont that welcomes leader "types." CMC also seems least in line with a few of your daughter's other school choices (particularly Reed and Chicago). Applying to Scripps/Pomona also maximizes the range of selectivity (although as someone who took multiple classes on every campus, I can absolutely say that I mean only "selectivity" and NOT necessarily "quality"), which might be a comfort. It also looks like your daughter could be a contender for merit aid at Scripps, although I don't know enough to say that too confidently. That said, I agree with SpiritManager: you can't go too wrong at any of these three schools.</p>

<p>But once again...almost everything at Claremont is shared. No amount of brochure-browsing will do justice to the real amount of overlap. As long as you're sure of the important things--availability of major (or possibility of cross-majoring...rules vary by campus), differences in GEs, etc. (Ex: Mudd, no matter how wonderful of an environment, would simply not be a good choice for a non-science/math/engineering student because she'd be required to have a technical degree--either major or minor--and she'd be stuck with all of the tech-related GEs)--then the most important thing is fit. </p>

<p>SpiritManager's post (#6) was an excellent one, although I'd still encourage your daughter to pay close attention to the "fluffier" aspects of the schools. Not just GE's (although they're top of the list), but also dorms, the physical campus, the "feel" she gets from students and administration, and so forth. Because of my degrees, neither of which I declared as a freshman, I took many of my courses off-campus (less than half, but just barely). My home campus was still my very favorite place to take courses, though, and it was definitely the right place for me to live and socialize. I know engineers at Scripps, physicists at Pitzer, and artists at CMC who feel the same way. That's my only caution against the course catalog method, although it's still a great first step!</p>

11

<p>I totally agree that the "feel" of place makes all the difference, and that sometimes it's frighteningly intangible. On paper, Weslleyan College in CT should have be a great match for my d - good LAC, reputation as quirky and off beat, highly recommended by some folks we tend to agree with.</p>

<p>Went to an open house there, and it some how just wasn't a match. All day, we both kept trying to like it, and some how it was just flat. BTW - nothing against the school, just some how neither of us could see her there. </p>

<p>Even funnier was we were both being really careful, trying not to be the first one to say, "Hey that didn't work". </p>

<p>That happened early on in the search, and it help confirm that all the research can only take you so far. </p>

<p>My d is going to try to interview with all three colleges, which will at least giver her some personal contact with either admissions reps or alum. Not a substitute, but a starting point. </p>

<p>And with any luck,(i.e. some acceptances) in the spring we'll go to LA and check out the schools.</p>

12

<p>My mom's a Pomona prof and as a faculty brat I recommend it MOST highly. It's a superb school, in an amazing location, with a really great ideology and superb professors (I'm taking an incredible English class there right now, on "Women and the Rise of the Novel").</p>

<p>I'm less positive about CMC, though the chair of the PPE (philosophy, politics, and economics) department is absolutely phenomenal. My doubts largely stem from its politics and general habit of treating education like a business and preparing students for business school without extensive other perspective. Its debate program is wonderful, however.</p>

<p>Of the three, Scripps is the most attentive to students' needs and by far the most beautiful, though Pomona is (obviously) more diverse. I'd recommend a Pomona app unless your D wants an easier school to get into.</p>

13

<p>I second the motion to go ahead and apply to all three schools, since you aren't able to visit until after acceptances. She should look into merit scholarships at both Claremont and Scripps. I think for Claremont's scholarship, she will need to send in an earlier essay, and she may be offered a separate interview if she is considered. Scripps probably works the same way. I know it's tempting to pare down the list, but it doesn't really seem wise if you're closing off options that might be a perfect fit, maybe with money...</p>

<p>My son is at Pomona, and couldn't be happier. Interestingly, he is definitely the "leadership" type of kid --that was probably the common theme running through his apps and recs-- yet he chose Pomona. He has really milked the opportunities available, and I think that all of the Claremont schools make it very easy to find work, research, extracurriculars in sports, outdoor recreation, political involvement, ... whatever interests a student. I've been pleased with how engaged my own kid is, but I am always surprised when he talks about the interesting programs and activities his roomate and friends are involved with, as they seem even busier!</p>

<p>And I wouldn't overlook Scripps. Honestly, if I could have a "re-do" for college for myself, Scripps would probably be my first choice. A women's college on a co-ed campus... a great combination that offers a lot to young women in terms of personal growth. It seems like a very special place.</p>

14

<p>I posted about my d's first few, very happy weeks on the Scripps thread. I would encourage any young woman who is looking at the 5C's to take a good look at Scripps. It is a gem. Our d went out after she was accepted and really liked what she saw. We did not see the campus until we flew out with her - it is stunningly beautiful. Everything so far has exceeded hers and our expectations. Including a responsive financial aid office. Good luck!</p>

15

<p>November first to apply for merit aid at Scripps. As long as you don't compete with my DD ( smile). For those of you there; any observations relevant for a female African American student? DD LOVED Scripps ( she also loved Duke and UCLA after she visted them). She's done great at the same small school for maybe thirteen years, with a similar student body, but I wonder if this is not a time she should see something bigger and more diverse. Pomona would be a reach for her.</p>

16

<p>


</p>

<p>I'm curious as to what you mean by "its politics." I assume (but am not sure) that you're referring to its reputation for being more conservative than many other colleges. As a current CMC student, I can say that this is actually one of the things I like best about the school. It has real political diversity-- it's traditionally about a third liberal, a third moderate, and yes, a third conservative. People really respect each other's opinions, and if you want to make some kind of assertion, you better be able to back it up with some coherent reasoning. I have gotten into some really interesting late-night debates with other students that have caused me to re-examine my own stances on certain issues. Being exposed to different points of view really forces you to think for yourself-- which is, after all, kind of an important part of college.</p>

<p>There are definitely some people at the school that "treat education like business," but they are, in my experience, hardly a majority. Even the conservative student paper had an editorial last semester about how we need to keep CMC's emphasis on politics and economics without becoming some kind of white-collar trade school. I think what CMC is really about is helping students to apply what they learn in the classroom. They give out hundreds of thousands of dollars every summer so students can afford to do unpaid internships and get real world experience. It's not just about the resume-booster though; it's about applying skills learned in the classroom to real issues and problems. I would say that CMC students are, on average, more career-oriented than say Pomona students, but is that really such a terrible thing? I would hope that after four years of college, you would come out prepared to choose and pursue a fulfilling career. </p>

<p>As to the OP, I wouldn't worry too much about the leadership thing. They define "leader" so broadly that it can basically mean anybody that accomplishes anything in any field. There are plenty of people who fit in perfectly at CMC that aren't classic leadership types (I'd probably include myself).</p>

17

<p>I think that theboneyking's characterization of CMC is a very fair one (and better stated than many I've seen or any I could have offered). There certainly is a pre-professional emphasis at the school, but not (in my experience) to the detriment of academics.</p>

18

<p>Hey Shrinkrap
My D is going to try for the Merit at Scripps as well, but hey there's more than 1 scholarship handed out, so maybe they'll be roomies :-) My theory on the scholarship is it doesn't hurt to ask, right?</p>

<p>She's running around like mad getting every lined up to have her app in. Crazy but good times.</p>

19

<p>"She's running around like mad getting every lined up to have her app in"</p>

<p>I wish.... sigh.</p>

20

<p>chaucers_pal just noticed your from Mass. DD just got selected for the "Women of Distinction" weekend at Smith. Any comparisons?</p>