<p>how hard is pre-med at cornell? Yes, i know pre-med is competitive everywhere, but is it as hard as berkeley? i know it's ivy league.. but does that mean it's harder?</p>
<p><em>feels dumb</em></p>
<p>......... :)</p>
<p>Premed isn't a major at Cornell, it's a track. It's hard, there's no doubt about that, but like 90-some percent of the graduates get into med school.</p>
<p>I think that number is a little high.</p>
<p>There are charts that go fairly far back on this page:</p>
<p>as recently as 2006, 85% of students with a GPA of 3.4 or higher were admitted to med school.</p>
<p>I heard that these 'acceptance' rates are not necessarily true...</p>
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I heard that these 'acceptance' rates are not necessarily true...
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Where did you hear that?</p>
<p>85% is pretty bad considering how many drop out haha</p>
<p>There has to be some sort of mistake in the 2007 data. 70+ seniors scored a 35 or above on the MCAT? That's pretty kick@$$.</p>
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85% is pretty bad considering how many drop out haha
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<p>Not that many actually drop out. Cornell starts off with 1000 premeds roughly from every graduating class and according to AAMC data, last year there were 470 Cornell applicants. That means roughly 50% of the students who start out as premeds freshman year will apply to med school at some point in their lives. So, the attrition rate is pretty low.</p>
<p>drop out of what?</p>
<p>"There has to be some sort of mistake in the 2007 data. 70+ seniors scored a 35 or above on the MCAT? That's pretty kick@$$."</p>
<p>like you said...Cornellians kick some serious a$$ on the MCAT. I'm hoping I get to redeem myself and join the crowd in July :-)</p>
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Where did you hear that?
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<p>umm...in the Premed sections of CC.</p>
<p>Norcalguy -- </p>
<p>How much do you think Cornell med school's acceptance rate is hurt by students who overestimate their chances and don't apply to less competitive schools. If some of the lower tier Cornell students are only applying to the top private schools, and not programs in osteopathy or some of the lesser state programs, could this bias the numbers?</p>
<p>Can someone comment on whether/how not having a med center/hospital on campus impacts premeds with regards to their EC/clinical experience? What are the opportunities for them to get such experience?</p>
<p>There's always Weill Medical College in NYC, which is an extension to the university and easily accessible; there's a bus that goes there twice a day. I'd think that if a pre-med student wanted clinical experience, they could access it there, probably shadowing a physician or assisting in their spare time, not sure as to the specifics.</p>
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Norcalguy -- </p>
<p>How much do you think Cornell med school's acceptance rate is hurt by students who overestimate their chances and don't apply to less competitive schools. If some of the lower tier Cornell students are only applying to the top private schools, and not programs in osteopathy or some of the lesser state programs, could this bias the numbers?
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<p>I don't think it's hurt more than any other school. The one thing that hurts Cornell's acceptance rate is the fact it only includes kids who got into allopathic med schools. Those are the hardest med schools to get admitted to. Many other schools include osteopathic (DO) schools, foreign med schools, etc. and thus boost their acceptance rate artificially. I think at the very least Cornell should include students who got into osteopathic med schools because those are med schools too and a perfectly legit way to become a doctor. Otherwise, Cornell's acceptance rate is usually in the 75-80% range which is about what we'd expect for its caliber of students. Last year, the acceptance rate dipped but that's happening at every college across the country. I just got the new med school admissions numbers from last year and the avg. GPA and MCAT at all med schools jumped like crazy. 3.7 is now the new median GPA for students who get into med school, any med school. Crazy.</p>
<p>It wouldn't surprise me to see Cornell's acceptance rate continue to drop until we hit 1996 levels (when only 55% of Cornellians got into med school and only 35% nationally got into med school). That's the state of med school admissions right now.</p>
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Can someone comment on whether/how not having a med center/hospital on campus impacts premeds with regards to their EC/clinical experience? What are the opportunities for them to get such experience?
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</p>
<p>Cayuga Med is a short bus ride away (the 21 bus I think). Cal Wood, the volunteer director, is a really cool guy. He will try to accomodate you as to the department you want to volunteer in. Getting volunteering is not a problem. Anyone who wants a position will get one.</p>
<p>The really great thing about Cornell is that it has two formal shadowing programs that will pair you up with physicians to shadow. Most other schools don't have this so you're stuck cold-calling/emailing random physicians asking if you can follow them around. Cornell has a Mentorship Program through Gannett and an Externship Program that will help you find physicians to shadow. These physicians volunteered for these programs so they're actually happy to mentor a premed.</p>
<p>I applied for both programs, got into both programs (they're not very selective) and had a great time. The second doctor I shadowed was particularly gracious. He drove out of his way to pick me up from my apartment, bought me lunch each day that I shadowed, and even offered me some of his Cornell hockey tickets.</p>
<p>I'll add that a fair number of students train to be EMTs as well. I am a Wilderness First Responder, and was with a bunch of EMTs in the class.</p>
<p>If you want to have a medical experience at Cornell, it isn't hard to find one. And the nice thing about Ithaca is that it is a lot more friendly and less intimidating than the big cities.</p>
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I don't think it's hurt more than any other school. The one thing that hurts Cornell's acceptance rate is the fact it only includes kids who got into allopathic med schools. Those are the hardest med schools to get admitted to. Many other schools include osteopathic (DO) schools, foreign med schools, etc. and thus boost their acceptance rate artificially. I think at the very least Cornell should include students who got into osteopathic med schools because those are med schools too and a perfectly legit way to become a doctor. Otherwise, Cornell's acceptance rate is usually in the 75-80% range which is about what we'd expect for its caliber of students. Last year, the acceptance rate dipped but that's happening at every college across the country. I just got the new med school admissions numbers from last year and the avg. GPA and MCAT at all med schools jumped like crazy. 3.7 is now the new median GPA for students who get into med school, any med school. Crazy.
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<p>I didn't realize that. I have a couple of friends from Cornell who went into osteopathy school simply because they felt it was a better fit and they just wanted to go into a family practice. I love how some of my current med student friends look down upon the osteopaths. </p>
<p>But really, the quality of a doctor varies so much from one doctor to another, it's impossible to to make any sort of assessment as to what is better -- osteopathic or allopathic. This is to not to mention all of the incredible shortcomings of American medical care -- D.O. vs. M.D. is one of the least important things in my view.</p>
<p>What would the admissions rate be if it included students going on to oseteopathy and the foreign schools? Do you know which schools report these as 'admits' -- would it include those that are so often compared to on these boards (e.g. Duke, Dartmouth, etc.)?</p>
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What would the admissions rate be if it included students going on to oseteopathy and the foreign schools? Do you know which schools report these as 'admits' -- would it include those that are so often compared to on these boards (e.g. Duke, Dartmouth, etc.)?
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<p>Who knows? The acceptance rate would be higher than it is now though if Cornell included data on osteopathic schools. Many of those applicants with GPA's in the 3.2-3.5 range and MCAT scores in the 25-30 range would presumably be applying to both allopathic and osteopathic schools. They would have a good shot at getting into DO schools but, as of right now, Cornell is recording them as a "failure" if they don't get into an allopathic school, which is an insult to the applicant and a misrepresentation of data.</p>
<p>I don't know which schools report what in their data. Not everyone is as open with its data as Cornell. In fact, Cornell and MIT are the only schools I know that frequently update their data each year. Penn, meanwhile, is still quoting how 80% of its students got into med school in 2002. Well, gee, 81% of Cornell students got into med school in 2002 also. That's because 2002 was the easiest year to get into med school in recent memory. What happened in 2002 isn't applicable to 2008. </p>
<p>Preprofessional</a> Stats - MIT Careers Office
<a href="http://www.career.cornell.edu/downloads/AaChart2007ForWeb.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.career.cornell.edu/downloads/AaChart2007ForWeb.pdf</a></p>
<p>As you can see, both MIT and Cornell provide data from 2007. Neither are pretty. 74% for MIT. 68% for Cornell.</p>
<p>I do understand what you were saying about Cornell students applying to unrealistic schools. Last year, 2 students with 3.9+ GPA's didn't get in anywhere and 14 students with 35+ scores didn't get in anywhere. I think that's mainly a fluke. If you look at the data from 1999-2006, you will notice that only 2 students in all of those years COMBINED didn't get into med school with a 3.9+ GPA from Cornell.</p>
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I have a couple of friends from Cornell who went into osteopathy school simply because they felt it was a better fit and they just wanted to go into a family practice. I love how some of my current med student friends look down upon the osteopaths. </p>
<p>But really, the quality of a doctor varies so much from one doctor to another, it's impossible to to make any sort of assessment as to what is better -- osteopathic or allopathic. This is to not to mention all of the incredible shortcomings of American medical care -- D.O. vs. M.D. is one of the least important things in my view.
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</p>
<p>I agree. While osteopathic schools are less selective than allopathic schools, there's no evidence that they produce inferior doctors. That's because medical education in the US is incredibly standardized. Med schools all teach the same things in the same way at the same time. The accrediting agency is VERY strict so any med school with accredidation is of good quality. For example, in 1999, Stanford Med was a couple of votes short of being put on probation despite being ranked #7 in the country at the time. The reason? The atroicious state of the med library. When I interviewed at Columbia Med this year, I noticed a lot of construction going on. The students said that it was due to the fact Columbia had come under fire from the accrediting body for its old/outdated facilities.</p>
<p>This preoccupation with selectivity is why I hate reading CC sometimes. The level of elitism and snobbishness just disgusts me. Luckily, from the nurses and doctors I've talked to, the stigma against DO's is mainly a premed thing. I think as people mature, they gain better perspective on what is truly important.</p>