Pre-Med, BA/MD, etc

<p>I can't imagine doing anything else except pursuing my future in the field of medicine, though I feel that its uber competitive. I realized not a lot of schools actually have a straight cut "Pre-med" program, the amount was less than I had expected. The other alternatives are those BA/MD programs that Rutgers and Lehigh have which are also as competitive with all these qualifications of being in the top 10% of your class, a 3.6 ish or higher GPA and what not (more elite schools have higher qualifications obviously). It seems these BA/MD programs are more selective than the pre-med ones. BA/MD's are also committed 7 year long programs. That means staying at the same college for 7 years. And then there are these "scholar" programs which I hope equally prepare us for MCATs and whatnot. And these are even more selective. U of Rochester's Medical Scholars programs accepts 10 people of the total apps they recieve each year. The number always stays at 10 and NYU, I think, accepts like 2 people? Do your research but I just wanted to start a new thread that was dedicated to med stuff.</p>

<p>And I didn't find out until after I applied ED, but being in JHU in undergrad years supposedly doesn't help you at all in entering their graduate medical school. geez, but regardless I still want to go there badly. =T</p>

<p>It seems like Chemistry and Biology are great undergrad programs for medical school...I'm sure a degree in either would prepare you greatly for med school, and if you
[quote]
can't imagine doing anything else except pursuing my future in the field of medicine

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then you probably won't let
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uber competitive

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get in your way.</p>

<p>It might seem like chem and bio are great undergram programs for med school, but it may not be the case. If you take the necessary pre-med classes and then major in something you truly enjoy, you will likely do better than majoring in chem or bio (if you do not enjoy these as much as the other subject you would now major in). If it is in the realm outside of the sciences or engineering, chances are the grading is at least slightly easier. If you have a passion for the subject, chances are you will perform better, be happier, and feel more satisfied. This will lead to a higher GPA and a greater chance of admissions to medical school. If chem or bio fit the bill for subject you would love to study, that's great, too. If you have a passion for chem or bio, or chemical biology, biochemistry, or whatever, by all means major in it, but do not think that you have to major in something like that to get into med school.</p>

<p>I would highly recommend that you at least major in something in the science field. Bio, chemistry, biochem, and physiology are all great majors to prepare you for med school. If you cannot see yourself going into anything other than medicine, then your passion should be incorporated into one of these majors. It will give you a strong core that will help you when you begin med school. It will also give you a chance to see if medicine is really something that you're interested in. Feel free to pursue other areas of interests, but minor in those areas.</p>

<p>Unfortunately undergrad classes in biochemistry, chem, etc have little to do with what doctors actually do in their careers. Majoring in the sciences gives you a taste of what the early years of medical school will be like, but not what it is like to actually practice medicine. This issue has been discussed on several different threads on CC and Drab's advice represents the consensus of opinion: major in something that you really like; take the necessary science courses as preparation for med school admissions and make the necessary contacts with faculty and administrators who are part of the "pre-med" advising group.</p>

<p>What doctors actually do is exam the anatomy and pathophysiology of the patient, use tests and techniques developed from chemistry and biochemistry, and determine the treatment using their knowledge of pharmacology. Majoring in science gives premeds a huge advantage and a great base of fundamentals to expand upon. Yes, you should major in something you really like...but if you are interested in going to medical school, you should be interested enough in science to major in something at least related to the field. If you aren't passionate enough about science (which is actually what doctors use in their careers) to study it for four years, then maybe you should look to another profession.</p>

<p>No, meg22, I have to disagree about your advice. If you are interested in going to med school, take the required pre-med classes, and you will be fine. Yes, in some ways, science majors have advantages, but one can be plenty passionate about science, not major in it, and be a perfectly capable doctor. There are disadvantages to majoring in science, such as harder grading, more often than not, when compared to hum and soc sci majors, and if one is not interested enough to spend 1/3 of one's undergraduate course work in the sciences, why should one be advised to? The students in med school get the information in medical school, and it is not as if they are not taking science classes as undergraduates, as they must fulfill certain classes to be considered by med schools. The doctors will get the information they need in order to graduate. Yes, it is good advice that somone not interested in ever studying science should consider a profession besides being a medical doctor, but it does not necessarily follow that if one doesn't want to MAJOR in it, that if one would rather spend what is usually their last and greatest energy in studying whatever they want for the last time in their life prior to retirement without many other things to worry about, one should major in the sciences.</p>

<p>Yes, you would be fine just taking the bare minimum amount of science required to apply to med school,and you will also be given all of the material you will need in med school to become a capable doctor. However, you only end up putting yourself at a disadvantage. The eight semesters of science required for premeds barely scrapes the surface of what you should know - even before entering med school. Furthermore, look at your reason for suggesting other majors. Sure, it's a lot easier to pull off a high gpa in humanities than it is for biochemistry, but if you're not willing to put the work into studying as an undergraduate, how do you expect to succeed in med school? Don't avoid a science major to take the easy route and inflate your gpa. If you are really interested in another field, choose that as your minor. Or reconsider your motives for wanting to become a doctor. Majoring in science isn't just about having an edge in med school classes or an advantage on the mcat, it's about strifing to understand the human body and the principles that govern the universe. Your undergraduate years are a great time to explore this (and you should want to if you plan on dedicating your life to its practice). It's not about finding the easiest major so you can get good grades with minimal effort.</p>

<p>Aw, but you ignore the more important aspects of not majoring in science that I addressed in my post.</p>

<p>What aspects are you refering to? I agreed with you that you don't necessarily have to major in science to become a capable doctor. I don't think it's the smart thing to do, but it can and has been done many times before. I addressed the issue of harder grading in science and, again, agree with you. I just don't think that hard work should in any way be a deterent to someone who aspires to attend med school (if you can't handle undergraduate work, you are going to have a pretty tough time in med school). And finally, you discuss spending your last opportunity studying something else. I replied that this was a great way to choose a minor. The original post was asking for good majors for those interested in going into the medical field. In my opinion, anything related to science (especially physiology and biochemistry) are excellent but yes, challenging majors. If a premed student does not major in science, it is usually one of two reasons (both of which you, yourself, stated), although there are exceptions for everything. The first reason is that science majors are often harder and, therefore, have harder grading. So go ahead, major in humanities and get the easy A. You'll just have to work harder in med school and in preparation for the mcat. This is really not a very impressive or meaningful path to take. The second reason is the premed is really intestered in something else - which is fine. I think that they should reexamine why they want to go into medicine, though. This is especially true if even minoring in the subject is not enough. They should make sure that medicine is their true calling. If it is, then so be it. They should major in their other interest. I think it's important, though, for them to understand the reasons behind their choice. For those who stand firmly in their desire to become doctors, it doesn't matter what major they choose. Just make sure the choice is one that benefits you the most.</p>

<p>You're right, they just pass out A's like candy over here in humanitiesville! Seriously now, although the grading tends to be easier, some fields are still very tough, and it depends on school. It's not just about getting a better GPA. If someone isn't really interested in the humanities or social sciences, do you think that they would do better in them than in the hard sciences? </p>

<p>Most of my family is comprised of doctors who didn't major in the sciences and went onto medical school and then did well as doctors. There are some advantages to majoring in the sciences if one is premed, and some disadvantages. The same is true with other fields of study, such as the huamnities or social sciences. Unless you show some data about how people who major in the sciences do better in med school, or people who did not major in the science drop out more often than science majors in medical school, then why not advise people to major in what they find interesting, and then move into the career mode later while in medical school? My pediatrician basically told me that he wished he took a lot more non-science classes because that is almost all that is covered in medical school. </p>

<p>Choosing a major is not choosing a career in most cases. Yes, if you want to be an engineer you essentially have to major in engineering, but most jobs have more flexibility. You can major in anything and go to medical school for a reason. A pre med sequence is very much like a minor in itself. </p>

<p>I'm not saying one should not major in the sciences, or that if you want to go to med school, don't major in science, or anything like that. I am most certainly saying don't think you have to major in the sciences to go to medical school. Some students just aren't aware of this.</p>

<p>I think premeds in just about every major should examine why they want to go into the medical field. </p>

<p>I do very much agree with you in that "I think it's important, though, for them to understand the reasons behind their choice. For those who stand firmly in their desire to become doctors, it doesn't matter what major they choose. Just make sure the choice is one that benefits you the most."</p>

<p>what are some good schools with BA/MD programs?</p>

<p>Boston U and Brown both have these, in addition to many others, and there is a whole forum devoted to it. <a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/forumdisplay.php?f=476%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/forumdisplay.php?f=476&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Meg22 you assume that MD's practice the science they are taught as undergraduates. Check with physicians and you will see that this is not the case. Physicians practice medicine---the science and art of medicine they are taught in medical school. Some science courses are necessary for MCAT prep and some basic understanding of biology and chemistry. People who major in one of those disciplines will be no further ahead than someone who majors in philosophy but has basic scientific understanding.</p>

<p>mol10e: The science and art of medicine is not some mystical secret that only med school students are privy to. Look at the curriculum taught at most schools. The first two years of med school usually consist of a course in human neurology, physiology, anatomy, biochemistry, histology, pathology, and genetics. Who do you think would have an advantage when taking these courses - the person who has seen most of this material as an undergrad or your philosophy major? The second two years often consist of applying this information in a clinical setting because, yes, physicians practice the science they are taught. You are indeed taught what you need to know in med school, but having an undergraduate core of science in these subjects is beneficial. Although this is one reason that majoring in science is advantageous, you missed the main point of my post, so I'll reiterate it: If you cannot handle the coursework of undergraduate science courses OR do not have enough interest in science (which doctors use each and every day they practice-check with your physicians) then you should reconsider going to med school.</p>

<p>If you study quantitative biology ("hard" biology like genetics, bio-chemistry, and the like) in college, you'll spend most of your time learning about chemical processes on the cellular (and even smaller nowadays) level that most doctors don't work with in their daily practices. This stuff may be interesting, but the truth is that very few doctors use their knowledge of the Krebs cycle, mechanistic organic chemistry or PCR in their practices. </p>

<p>If you're advising students to study an undergraduate major that overlaps with medicine as a science (to ensure that they have a "passion" for science, as opposed to something baser like wanting to help people), you should advise pre-meds to major in physiology and integrated biology--and to avoid the pitfalls of bio-chemistry and molecular biology, which have little to do with most medical practices. It is true that doctors use a lot of tools that use advanced science, but the fact of the matter is that they either send out samples to labs to get tested, or put samples into black boxes that they don't really need to understand--contrary to popular belief, physicians don't build all their own equipment.</p>

<p>(By "typical medical practice" I refer to family practice, pediatrics, psychiatry, surgery, and the like--I imagine some highly specialized doctors and/or researchers do indeed work with a lot of quantitative biology concepts. However, these doctors have many years of residency to learn all they need about their obscure specializations. One should first and foremost decide to be a doctor, and only then, decide what kind to be.)</p>

<p>Physiology IS the number one major I recommend to premeds, although biochemistry, molecular and cellular biology, etc are excellent options as well. Of course physicians rarely test their own samples, but knowing the structure of protein and the principles of genetics is not just useless trivia they present to med school students. You will not be using every aspect of every science at every moment as a physician, but you will always be applying your knowledge of science to improve your patients' health. If you want an undergraduate major that is often the most applicable to your practice, then physiology is a great choice. As you stated, different specialties will require different levels of the "hard sciences." Major in these depending on your interests. No, I do not consider these pitfalls because they are not always directly applied to medical practice. They serve to give the physican a deeper knowledge of physiological processes - processes that they do need to understand for patient assessment. A core of science has great value to a doctor, even if not every subject is directly applicable at all times (although many DO have direct applications). If it didn't, then why don't we just hand out a rolodex with symptoms and treatments to everyone? We could all be doctors in a matter of minutes.</p>

<p>As far as helping people, everyone who aspires to become a doctor obviously should want to help people. There are, however, many jobs that strive to help others. Physicians are among many other professions where this is the goal. In order to be successful as a doctor (i'm defining success as helping others), it is often effective to be interested in your work. Would you rather have a doctor who hates physiology and anatomy, is disinterested in genetics, and simply loathes pathology....but, of course, wants to help people OR a doctor who is extremely interested in the human body, how it works, the mechanisms of both the pathogen and the treatments, and also wants to help others? It's a hard choice, but I prefer the latter.</p>

<p>Well meg22, as to your last paragraph, would that be the guy who studied it for 7 years, or 4?</p>

<p>If you cannot handle the coursework of undergraduate science courses OR do not have enough interest in science (which doctors [indirectly] use each and every day they practice-check with your physicians) then you should reconsider going to med school.</p>

<p>Alright, do you think someone is able to handle the coursework of an undergraduate science major and not major in the sciences? Do you think that someone can have an interest in science but would rather major in something else because they know they will get a more thorough science education in medical school? It's not as if they're taking no science classes (and the superflous math classes) as an undergrad. Oh yeah, and an English class. What do you have to say to all of the people who did majors outside of the sciences and yet went to medical school? </p>

<p>Is majoring in science good for medical school training? Yes, very much so. Is it the only way to go? Very much no.</p>

<p>As I stated in an earlier post to you, DRab, there are many capable doctors who were not science majors. Of course some people who can handle the coursework are not majoring in science. Of course some people major in other fields who have an interest in medicine. If you are satisfied with the amount of science required for applying to med school, that's fine with me. I have nothing to say to all of the people who did majors outside of the sciences and yet went to medical school. I do have something to say, however, to the premed interested in medicine that doesn't know what to major in. I have never said that a science major is the only way to go. What I have said is that it's an excellent option that I highly recommend. Choose the path that's best for you.</p>

<p>Very well then. Sorry to be so argumentative. :)</p>