<p>FluteMomLiz, Get your daughter to contact the teachers and see who responds.</p>
<p>Things that I think stand out include high placement in top-level competitions, regular lessons (not just a sample lesson or a masterclass) with well-known teachers, participation at prestigious festivals and summer programs (particularly where a scholarship was involved), graduation from a school like Interlochen, and solos and principal positions held with particularly good youth symphonies.</p>
<p>overseas, we have asked several professors in person and they all said about the same thing, an impressive resume is nice but it really all comes down to the audition. The best player is admitted even if the resume is not impressive.</p>
<p>The only one I spoke with personally in depth said, what they learned at all those impressive resume items will be reflected in their play. If not they didnt learn much. So they pretty much dismissed the resume as of almost no value.</p>
<p>But others here have had a different experience and I want to learn from their knowledge.</p>
<p>BassDad, I guess that would put kids from more rural or smaller cities at a disadvantage.</p>
<p>Once again, any effort put into activities that solely make a resume look good and DO NOT help the playing ability of the student are counter productive.</p>
<p>Resumes are probably used as "tie breakers" in determining choices from a pool of candidates with acceptable audition results. The best resume in the world would have a tough time bringing a person up from the unacceptable audition results.</p>
<p>And don't forget, that merit scholarship is doled out SOLELY on the result of the audition at most conservatories...</p>
<p>I should add that I also have a vague recollection of being told that the faculty "veto" was a fairly rare event. Without a veto, both admissions and merit awards were based on the audition. </p>
<p>I suspect the audition emphasis is most important for conservatories and University music programs may vary quite a bit in selection criteria.</p>
<p>I agree that the most important thing that comes from a good resume is the experience of actually doing and learning from those activities, and that will probably show up through the audition itself. </p>
<p>In terms of a rural kid having less ops, I think that is true only in the sense that any kid who doesn't have regular lessons with experienced teachers and performance ops with quality programs is at a disadvantage. I don't think that's an insurmountable problem, if the talent and drive are there. It is possible (IMO) that this student may take a bit longer to reach goals, simply because their training in some areas has been delayed. But, most schools say they are not only looking at level of achievement, but at level of potential - what they've done with what they had. (A new student at Juilliard this fall is from Bulgaria - certainly hasn't had the same ops, and doesn't have the same things on his resume!) </p>
<p>One thing that a resume might bring at any school that uses it (and reads it) - even if the teachers don't think this is happening - is that it might set the teachers up a bit to pre-judge - creates a self-fulfilling prophecy. If Hilary Hahn or Joshua Bell were listed as teachers, then the judges will probably have different expectation for a violinist than if student's only teacher was a local college student. Likewise, if a student wins a major competition, and knowledgeable people have already labelled him a top performer, then the audition judges are going to be expecting something pretty good, and might make more allowances if a piece falls short. It might even affect subtle or subconscious things like the teacher / judge's overall attitude (eager anticipation? skepticism? curiousity?) and responses to the student.</p>
<p>A good resume offers objective insight to a performer's capabilities. It doesn't just list music activities that show student is busy, but lists "evidence" that student is accomplished.</p>
<p>Binx you said: In terms of a rural kid having less ops, I think that is true only in the sense that any kid who doesn't have regular lessons with experienced teachers and performance ops with quality programs is at a disadvantage.</p>
<p>When I said to BassDad that rural kids are at a disadvantage because he wrote about name teacher, big youth orchestra, and programs like the certificate one that started this thread all of which are not likely to be part of most small state or rural area kids resumes. At least less likely than those in the NE and some other major cities.</p>
<p>I am guessing that those are taken into consideration when looking at resumes. Boston or NY Phil youth orch maybe more impressive than Podunk Iowa youth orchestra but did the kid in Iowa have an even shot? One of the reasons I continue to question just what on a resume would really be impressive enough to influence a professor. As has been mentioned bigger names and more opportunity may lead to higher expectations while lessor resume may lead to if they got this good with so little opportunity how good can I make them.</p>
<p>In the end, each teacher has their own set of criteria for what they want in a student. Some might look at the kid from the sticks and wonder, "how good can I make them?" and others might look at the same kid and say, "too bad they didn't get a better teacher sooner, it could take me years to correct some of the bad habits they have acquired."</p>
<p>The year my daughter auditioned, two of the best players were not from big cities or even from the northeast. Both had been playing their instrument for eight or ten years. Both were tall kids with large hands, which can be a natural advantage on a large instrument. One was home schooled during long trips to the finest available teachers, so that he could spend as much time as possible on his instrument. The other was sent to musical boarding school at Interlochen and then moved on to a private teacher in Boston for half a year of coaching before auditioning. Both of them owned extremely nice instruments and had spent the past several summers at all the right festivals and summer camps. Did all of that give them an advantage at their auditions? You're darned right it did - each was the only one accepted on bass that year at programs that are generally considered among the top few in the country. They certainly had impressive resumes but, much more importantly, all the work they had done and all the advantages that they had accrued showed up in their playing.</p>
<p>It did not matter so much where they were from. It mattered a whole heck of a lot that they and their families identified a goal very early on and then worked with extreme determination and dedication to achieve that goal. It also mattered that those families had the resources to pursue those goals so singlemindedly.</p>
<p>Auditions are not about having an "even shot." In top programs that get far more applicants than they can accept, the decision usually falls along the lines of "which of these kids can we make the best in four or five years?" Sometimes it turns out to be the kid who has a lot of undeveloped talent and sometimes it turns out to be the one who has already worked up to his potential and needs a master teacher to get to the next level. Someone who can demonstrate both solid accomplishments and considerable upside potential will be in the best position of all.</p>
<p>Well said, BassDad.</p>
<p>I appreciate all of the advice and stories very much. Thank you.</p>
<p>Son is definitely doing the program, and is committed to the level of intensity that this year will entail (senior year will be less challenging academically). We'll just write the checks and stand by supportively (and, of course, add a few more performances to the already very busy calendar!).</p>
<p>I will say that when I listen to BassDad's inside knowledge of most conservatory bass teachers, as well as the caliber of other students who auditioned on his daughter's instrument. I feel like a bit of a slacker in the music parent department. I am just so impressed by the depth of his knowledge and understanding of the whole process (Binx, you too). I know very little of or about teachers, nor of the other students who will be competing for those precious music school spots with my son. I do wonder whether my ignorance is bliss, or whether it will come back to bite me. We shall see....</p>
<p>Hang in there Allmusic, I got into the game kind of late too. Daughter was not even thinking about conservatories until well into ninth grade and was still uncertain about them until the summer before her senior year.</p>
<p>I wouldn't consider what I know about conservatory bass teachers inside knowledge. The only inside connections that I have are my daughter who is now at Oberlin and my wife, who is a part-time adjunct instructor of flute, teaching an average of one student per semester at a small college that most people have never heard of. I have taken the time to speak with a number of the teachers whom my daughter was considering, with admissions people at various schools and with a bunch of other parents and students faced with the same choices. Most of these folks are very nice and are quite willing to tell you about themselves and explain what they know about the admissions process. As Yogi says, "You can see a lot just by observing." Beyond that, all of my sources are publicly available to anyone with a library card and access to the Internet.</p>
<p>Ninth grade is late? Now I feel worse than Allmusic.</p>
<p>Ninth grade is a bit late to be switching instruments if your objective is to become a performance major on that instrument at one of the top schools. Obviously, it can be done, but most of the competition will have been studying their instrument from at least fourth grade, and many (particularly on violin or piano) from a much earlier age. </p>
<p>The college research doesn't have to start quite that early, but there are people out there who have been planning their Curtis and Juilliard auditions for ten years or more.</p>
<p>Thanks BD. Actually, we have been on the music path since S was in second grade, and have (rather by the seat of our pants) done most of the right things it seems; we are fortunate that he has the innate ability, and we live in a geographic area which has afforded him some excellent teachers and opportunities. However, he has certainly not been planning for Juilliard or Curtis, and his level of preparation, while impressive, will clearly not rival students who are on that path. But there is a place for him, and for FlutemomLiz's daughter too.</p>
<p>I have done tons of internet research, actually, but have learned nearly as much from all of you here on this forum. I hope all of you veteran parents realize what an asset you are to us novices.</p>
<p>In many ways, learning about conservatories and schools of music is very difficult. It isn't that you can sit around with your co-workers, friends or neighbors and compare notes (no pun intended). It is difficult to find folks who have done the high level audition thing, and even more difficult to find folks who have gone through it and are pretty knowledgeable about it. That is one of the things that makes this forum so wonderful! Then you find someone who has knowledge of the application process and has gone through it and you find out they play a completely different instrument and the schools that worked for them might not work for you. </p>
<p>So don't beat yourselves up over not knowing much. Most of us were in the same boat. I know when my son was going through the process on cello, I had no idea of any of the other students who were likely auditioning at many of the same programs. Even now I really don't know what qualities he had that got him admitted to the 2 programs where he was accepted. (I do know why he was waitlisted at the other 2.) I assume that it was based on his audition mostly. He was a bit of a late starter and has a couple of other issues, and it became obvious to me that they were not looking for perfection at the audition. But you did need to play very well. And I also believe that having previous contact with the teacher is probably the next most important thing. (On the other hand, if you blow them away on the audition, nothing else will matter.)</p>
<p>I'm bumping this thread as the comment is pertinent to other ongoing discussions.</p>
<p>It's funny for me to read this thread again! I feel so much savvier than I did when I first started posting these questions! </p>
<p>I think we parents get brought up to speed on the whole music school process as "trial by fire". We haven't even gotten to auditions yet, and already I feel like <em>I</em> could answer the questions for the newbies LOL!</p>