<p>No employers know which schools inflate grades and which ones deflate. They just go with the GPA that they see. It’s easy, it’s fast. Frankly, on the first pass through all the resumes they receive, an administrative assistant, fresh outta high school can sort the resumes into two piles: no and maybe. They might not consider the "quality " of the school in this first pass. So a 3.2 from Podunk U equates to a 3.2 from Princeton. Tell your kid to take those courses where he/she can achieve A’s whenever possible. Forget about taking physics with calculus, take the plain vanilla physics. It’s a shame that an institution that prides itself on challenging young minds is punishing them for it or setting up disincentives. And now they are trying to dumb-down to compensate by eliminating one science lab course and there is debate about eliminating language requirements replacing them with “culture.” It’s perverted but Princeton calls it progress.</p>
<p>I think you guys should stop thinking about college so much and enjoy your life… you wont get to be 15-16 again so make the most of it… just enjoy and do what you love best and you’ll be amazed at how much you accomplish.</p>
<p>The vast majority of Princeton students do NOT major in the natural sciences. This majority is the target for the dumbing-down effort. Princeton wants to make better grades achievable by this majority by not requiring the harder and more time-consuming science lab course. Conversely, natural science majors MUST take these courses and guess what, natural science majors have the LOWEST average GPAs. So Princeton is trying to raise the overal GPA of the school at the expense of the science majors. This same logic also holds for the foreign language/culture debate which will tend to raise humanities and social science majors’ GPAs ( and the school average) and do nothing for the engineers who don’t need to take foreign language and who also have GPA’s on the lower end. So a student scientist/engineer with a GPA of 3.2 is competing for a consulting job with a history major with a 3.5; who’s going to get the job? Who is going to get the scholarship? Why build a beautiful new chemistry building if you are disincentivizing science majors?</p>
<p>Tigermom, What makes you think that a student who gets a B+ at Princeton would get an A at Northwestern? You seem to underestimate the difficulties of getting a very high GPA at Northwestern.</p>
<p>I think this discussion is getting crazy. </p>
<p>A 3.2 GPA is below average for Princeton. If everyone’s GPA at Princeton were to go up by .2…it would still be below average. This is not a grade deflation issue.</p>
<p>Yes you can go through college seeking out the easiest courses. In my mind that’s a waste of an incredible opportunity. I would never advise my son to do this.</p>
<p>Also as the above poster has said, I think you are not giving other Universities credit for also attracting very talented students.</p>
<p>Grade inflation…[National</a> Trends in Grade Inflation, American Colleges and Universities](<a href=“http://www.gradeinflation.com/]National”>http://www.gradeinflation.com/)</p>
<p>Data is old…2008 but look at the trend… it could be 0.2 points by now which is the difference between an A and a B+. Also, don’t forget, these numbers are influenced by the relative sizes of engineers and science majors at each of the schools…I’m not inclined to do that much research…</p>
<p>My point is, maybe going to the next tier of schools…still great schools and working just as hard to get good grades is an effective strategy for those who seek awesome grades like pre-professional students or those who want to get scholarships to graduate schools or who want to get plum jobs. Arguably, ten years after graduation, your grade point average doesn’t matter. But tell that to a recent graduate who can’t imagine ten years ahead.</p>
<p>A 3.2 is ABOVE Princeton’s average for a natural science student.</p>
<p>A difference of .2 in not the difference between an A (4.0) and a B+ (3.3).</p>
<p>However, the rest of your argument makes sense. But again, not a grade deflation issue. What you are saying is that a student a Princeton who went to a lower tier school would do better. This probably always has been true.</p>
<p>Grade deflation would come into play with a statement like. “If my child went to Harvard, Yale or Stanford they would have done much better.” This may or may not be true, but it is not what you are saying.</p>
<p>So now that each of the HYPSM schools have SCEA… will the apps be spread out more amongst all of them? I hope Princeton has an acceptance rate SCEA of ~20%… that would make me so happy.</p>
<p>I’m not sure I understand all the numbers flying in this thread. I’m the parent of a HS junior who loves math and physics and is on college class #6 in physics and college class #7 in math. I would hate to think that his love of and strength in math and physics which might allow him the opportunity to study at a university such as Princeton could be his downfall in the job market. He just wants to find a school that will be challenging in those subjects. At this point, he thinks he’ll go for a PhD. Do grad schools also look down on lower GPAs from highly ranked schools?</p>
<p>Here is the message Princeton sends out with their transcript…this is supposed to “explain” the lower GPA’s…NOT. I don’t know if grad schools are “buying it” but many employers aren’t even looking long enough at a Princeton grad with anything but a stellar GPA, to even see this statement. For those employers who sort through candidates on the first pass based merely on grades, this statement is worthless.</p>
<p>PRINCETON UNIVERSITY GRADING POLICIES IN UNDERGRADUATE COURSES AND INDEPENDENT WORK
Beginning with fall term 200405, grades awarded at Princeton University reflect new institutional grading expectations for undergraduate courses and independent work. These expectations result from the determination of the Princeton faculty to address locally the persistent national problem of grade inflation. This statement explains the new expectations so that the academic records of Princeton students can be properly understood both in their own context and in relation to the records of students in other institutions where grading practices are different from those we have adopted.
Princetons new expectations posit a common grading standard for every academic department and program, under which As (A+, A, A-) shall account for less than 35 percent of the grades given in undergraduate courses and less than 55 percent of the grades given in junior and senior independent work. These percentages are consistent with historical grading patterns at Princeton for the two decades between the early 1970s and the early 1990s. For departments that have maintained these patterns over the last decade, the new policy will affirm established practice. For other departments, the new policy will mark a significant break with recent practice. Overall, implementing the new expectations across the University will, at least at present, set Princetons grade distribution well apart from those of its closest peers.
As the Princeton transcript explains in greater detail, the University faculty has agreed that grades in the A range signify work that is exceptional (A+), outstanding (A), or excellent (A-). Grades in the B range signify work that is very good (B+), good (B), or more than adequate (B-). Grades in the C range signify work that is acceptable in varying degrees. The new policy sets expectations for academic departments and programs rather than individual faculty members. It does not mean that only 35 percent of students in each course will receive a grade in the A range, nor does it mean that a student who does A range work will receive anything other than an A range grade. What it does mean is that if faculty make rigorous evaluative judgments about the quality of student work, we expect that over time, on average, across the University, about 35 percent of undergraduate students will be doing course work of the highest quality, and 55 percent will be doing independent work of the highest quality.
Princeton enrolls a select group of unusually accomplishedindeed, increasingly accomplishedstudents, whose credentials and achievements place them in the front rank of undergraduates in all American colleges and universities. The new grading policy reflects the commitment of the Princeton faculty to hold these students to the highest standards and to make very careful distinctions in evaluating their work. Princeton grades should be understood, therefore, as rigorous markers of academic performance in an extremely challenging program of undergraduate study.</p>
<p>Tigermom - I understand your frustration. In these tough economic times when jobs are so hard to come by, having a deflated GPA would surely disadvantage a Princeton grad. I hope it all works out for your son, just as I hope that my son’s prospects are good when he graduates in a little more than two years. He too is in the hard sciences (integrated science program, physics major, possible biophysics certificate) and he works incredibly hard for his grades which, while very high, are less than the perfect grades he had been accustomed to in HS.</p>
<p>His take on the grade deflation policy is surprising to me. He likes it, because he likes the granularity it brings to the process. Sure, he reasons, his peers are all bright kids who would each be at or near the top of the class at lesser schools, but if they all got "A"s at Princeton, the “A” wouldn’t mean so much. We’ll see how he feels post-grad.</p>
<p>My advice to prospective applicants is to try to understand the pros and cons of this policy going in, to recognize that excelling at Princeton isn’t any easier than being accepted in the first place, and not to underestimate the opportunities and resources the school presents to it’s students, benefits which accrue to all students, whether they end up with a 3.0 or a 3.9.</p>
<p>For my son, so far at least, it’s been a great experience. The accessibility of the professors, the internship opportunities, the opportunity to be with peers who are truly intellectual peers, oh sorry, I’d better stop, I’m getting carried away. He loves the school and I do too, vicariously.</p>
<p>^isnt there less grade deflation in the math/science departments?
wasn’t Princeton’s grade deflation enacted to balance the discrepancy in grades between the math/science department and the humanities department? I heard that there were, prior to grade deflation, fewer “A” students in the math/science dept. than in the humanities department.</p>
<p>Yes, what I’ve read is that the math/science departments weren’t inflated before and have been only minimally affected by this policy.</p>
<p>I. Want. To. Go. To. Princeton. So. Bad.</p>
<p>Prospective 2016…
International student…
I can easily get into any university in China…seriously ANY…But I just want to go Princeton…It’s so different here that I don’t know my chance. I may become everthing yet still nothing…
This IS driving me CRAZY…</p>
<p>I want to go to Princeton. :)</p>
<p>I really hope it’s not actually like this!!!</p>
<p>[YouTube</a> - How High Schoolers Imagine the College Admissions Process](<a href=“How High Schoolers Imagine the College Admissions Process - YouTube”>How High Schoolers Imagine the College Admissions Process - YouTube)</p>
<p>@WhiteboyNJ123</p>
<p>Why the Princeton '15? Aren’t you applying this year?</p>
<p>Haha I like trolling as a junior / hyping myself up.</p>