<p>The debate was why were athletes recruited and not musicians. If you really think that it is very easy to become an outstanding musician compared to being an recruited athlete, maybe you should try playing an instrument next time and see how it goes. As someone here put it, it all boils down to revenue. Athletes bring in money while musicians don’t. </p>
<p>@opinion559 that’s an extension fallacy – no where am I implying becoming a world class musician is any more or less difficult to becoming a recruited athlete. I’m just saying an extensive funneling network exists for athletes. I would assert it’s b/c sports are visible and some bring in revenue and add to “school spirit” and pride and Americans like sports in general. </p>
<p>Alternatively, certainly not teams bring in revenue – most are revenue users, not revenue generators. Almost women’s sports, most D-2 and D3 sports entirely e.g. Frankly, big time mens and women’s hoops, D1 football is about it. So even beyond the revenue motivation, colleges want great sports teams when they can get them.</p>
<p>Basically…sports = money! everything else applicants are good at on the national/international level =/= money! And by extension this leads to extensive networks to support sports and by extension money and few if any to support everything else. I get the logic but it still isn’t fair…sigh.</p>
<p>I don’t think Princeton does likely letters for any non-recruited-athlete applicant. Again, I have no idea how it works for recruited athletes, they may or may not.</p>
<p>Ambitious19: You should have sent them! But It really shouldn’t matter if your freshman to junior year grades are solid. I sent mine in because 1. I’m taking an incredibly hard work load and doing decently well 2. To emphasize the strong upward trend in my academic record. On the princeton website, they do explicitly state to send them if they are available. Do most scea applicants send them then? I assumed that we were encouraged to based on this link <a href=“http://admission.princeton.edu/applyingforadmission/early-action-faqs”>http://admission.princeton.edu/applyingforadmission/early-action-faqs</a></p>
<p>As the athletic and musician dad of a musician son, this digression of the thread is interesting. As I stated previously, alumni drive athletics, not money. If money were the driving force, there would be no athletic programs outside of a select few sports that are the major money-makers. Click on “sports” at <a href=“http://www.goprincetontigers.com”>http://www.goprincetontigers.com</a>. Notice all the Facebook and twitter feeds for all the sports listed. That’s for the alumni. At PTon, those sports are not revenue drivers. </p>
<p>Also, while musicians don’t want to hear this, some people are just naturally gifted athletically. In basketball there is a saying, “You can’t teach size.” There are only so many 6 foot 6 inch plus athletes in US high schools with SAT scores above 1800. There are only a select number of guys who can hit a baseball traveling at 90 miles per hour or throw a baseball at 90 mph with SAT scores above 1800. There are even fewer with SAT scores above 2000. However, give any kid a musical instrument, private lessons, 1000+ hours of practice between 6-12 grades and they can get pretty good at playing an instrument. (I was an All-State alto saxophonist in Texas as well as an average baseball player).</p>
<p>It is frustrating when you have put so much time and energy into getting into the best school possible for someone with lesser qualifications to get in and you don’t. I get it. My son is experiencing that now. He doesn’t have a 2400 SAT. He’s on the lower side of the 25th-50th percentile. But for those that get in, it is important to have diversity within the student body. The events in Ferguson and elsewhere teach us that an education includes learning to listen to all kinds of views and experiences. I believe that if PTon had nothing but level 2400 SAT, test taking drones who could speak 3 languages and play two instruments, the education would suffer. Because, part of your education, a large part of your education, will be from your classmates.</p>
<p>The holistic admissions process means that the adcom is tasked with being fair to the class as a whole, rather than being fair to individual applicants. That means admitting athletes, questbridge, geographic and racial variety, as well as just the best and brightest. Where ever you all go, it will make your education better for it.</p>
<p>@jacknophat Well said. </p>
<p>respect. although i do disagree on the musician part. if you practice sports or anything without natural talent, anyone can reach a certain respectable level with enough practice.</p>
<p>Wait do colleges see grades semester by semester?</p>
<p>yep, semesters. </p>
<p>Thankfully. My quarter/progress grades always seem to suck really bad, although I can pull it together by the end of the term</p>
<p>@jacknophat: While I agree with having a diverse student body argument of yours, I completely disagree with your statement: "give any kid a musical instrument, private lessons, 1000+ hours of practice between 6-12 grades and they can get pretty good at playing an instrument. "</p>
<p>Having a certain physique is very important for playing the violin and that is something you are born with. Similarly there is more to music than just playing the notes correctly. Musicality cannot be taught. Without natural talent supplemented with years of hard work, neither can you be a recruited athlete nor a top musician.</p>
<p>Exactly. The fact that schools don’t need to recruit musicians shows that there is a larger supply - almost every friend I have (including myself to an extent) that practices an instrument is very good, earning statewide awards and national recognition. Conversely, I know no five star athlete with amazing academic records</p>
<p>@alfawarlord how do they get the semester grades? (besides senior year) On my transcript it only shows the final year grades</p>
<p>@alfawarlord It seems like you’re simply trying to leverage your musical background to get into schools like Pton. If you were planning on pursuing music, then I’d understand, but otherwise I don’t think it’s your place to try and lower talented individuals in other disciplines. Just my two cents. </p>
<p>Oh, FYI I don’t play an instrument and I can barely throw a ball. So I’m not trying to take sides here haha. </p>
<p>Anyway, whatever will be, will be! 
</p>
<p>@Opinion559 preach.</p>
<p>@HPClee well they request your school for transcripts that show your semester grades, b/c that’s the common convention with high school transcripts so they can see your growing progress throughout the year.</p>
<p>"Conversely, I know no five star athlete with amazing academic records "</p>
<p>@Cotwoag1 You are most likely to meet some if you are admitted to a very selective school. =)</p>
<p>I used to teach piano years ago and am actually thrilled that there are so many students who study an instrument at length to be accomplished enough to compete at state and national levels. At many schools music programs have been cut drastically to the point that many families of public school students must pay entirely out of pocket for real music education. It feels like somewhat of a dying art. </p>
<p>@opinion559 I’m not sure how much exposure you’ve had to Princeton’s music programs or if that is even what you are considering concentration-wise, but we attended a performance of Stravinsky’s Rite of Spring back in April 2012 at an admitted students’ weekend and it was incredibly well done. Since it was the seniors’ last performance, the conductor took a few moments to introduce them and also shared their concentrations and certificates. Most were not majoring in music at all…I heard things like microbiology, Russian literature, economics etc and the most interesting certificates paired with them. It seems that for many students they performed for the pure joy of it. </p>
<p>@Cantiger totally agree. I am someone who was privileged enough for my parents to pay for private violin lessons since elementary school (up to 10th grade) and had the money for the resources to get pretty good at it. What many people don’t understand is that this is exactly why musicians have better academic records. Musicians usually come from more privileged backgrounds that encourage better academic performance, while athletes come from the opposite and are usually not raised with the ideas that grades are everything. This is the majority of the cause of athletes having worse scores on average, and people have to realize that this causes the exceptional ones to be recruited. Athletic talent just seems to be more rare, and this is coming from someone who is better at music than at sports (but is actively involved in both). Athletes also give the student body a higher diversity, which is really important for me in choosing a school to attend.</p>
<p>@T26E4 - “If you personally do not know the resumes of recruitable athletes, know that they’ve been receiving mail and phone calls since middle school – almost every one of them”</p>
<p>NCAA rules govern permissible contact times; for most sports, coach initiated phone calls aren’t allowed until July 1st following the student’s junior year. As a parent of two recruited athletes, I can assure you that coaches don’t phone kids in middle school. In fact, they’re very careful to abide by the rules. We did experience a couple of premature outreaches, but they were from boosters, not coaches. Of course, prospective athletes are free to reach out to coaches before the end of junior year but, even then, the coaches can only receive, not make, phone calls.</p>
<p>@jacknophat “… had nothing but level 2400 SAT, test taking drones who could speak 3 languages and play two instruments…” ?? Drones? Hmm. Wonder how is this any different from the kids on this forum talking about athlete recruits. I hope this was unintentional.</p>