Prioritizing Visits: Thoughts on Bates, Skidmore, Dickinson relative to schools already on the list

College Search & Selection
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I’m working on a much longer and more thorough post, but looking for a quick take on the colleges listed above.

For a kid with a declared interest in hard sciences, notably Physics, and a general preference for liberal/quirky LACs and small universities. Has so far visited and short-listed Rice & Wesleyan (high reaches, bordering on fantasy), Oberlin, Case & Brandeis (reaches), Muhlenberg & College of Wooster (hopefully likelies). There’s a notable absence of matches, though I frankly have a little trouble distinguishing between matches and low reaches. (More on that in another post.)

Also attracted to (but has not yet visited, in rough descending order of reachiness) Carleton, Reed, Macalester, University of Rochester, Stonybrook and Kalamazoo. Did not care for any of the larger schools we visited (which makes me wonder about Stonybrook, but it’s staying on the list.)

Because we live in NY, and interest is high, we will definitely visit Rochester and Stonybrook, and are considering a junket out to see Macalaster and Carleton, mostly because I think Macalaster would be a particularly good fit. For the others on the unvisited short list, we’ll have to settle for what we can learn online.

The question is, given what is suggested by preferences above, and given that the kid is a little burned out on visiting, should I make an effort to add Skidmore, Dickinson (both reasonable driving distance) and Bates (looking for an excuse to go to Maine, really) to the list of schools we visit in person, or is there no powerful reason to do so given the focus of the rest of the list. (And should we perhaps focus instead on second visits and personal interviews rather than spreading the net any further?)

Grateful for any thoughts, thanks.

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Start with your basic stats. GPA, # of AP classes and test scores. Male or Female?

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@BatesParents2019 At this particular moment I’m not asking anyone to “chance” my kid, just to give a personal (preferably firsthand) impression of these schools relative to the ones on the list.

FWIW, broadly speaking, I think Bates would be a reach (don’t really need more of those but not ready to toss it entirely), Skidmore a match and Dickinson a match or likely.

The question is, how do they compare with the existing list. Redundant? Outliers? Something in between? What specific qualities do they add to the picture that might be otherwise missing? I’ve heard things both ways that make me waffle about making the effort to visit them, since I’m trying to both be thorough and avoid burnout, and am looking for fresh perspectives.

Thanks.

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Generally speaking, I’ve found my kid responds well to schools that are generally liberal, seem supportive of quirky individualists, take academics seriously but are not too intensely high pressure (obviously there are already some ringers in the mix), and demonstrate some level of personal attention to their student body. A rah-rah sports/frat vibe is a turn-off. A lively but not too competitive music scene with varied opportunities to play in band or orchestra is a plus.

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I would definitely recommend a visit to Skidmore, particularly if it is reasonably close. We visited in early May and both D and we loved it! D is similar to your D in that she’s smart but isn’t interested in crazy pressure, and has a quirky vibe. She felt immediately comfortable with the students she met (both tour guide / panelists and those walking around that we asked a few questions to). Lots of emphasis on the arts, lots of research opportunities with professors. Beautiful campus and amazing surrounding town. Good luck!

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Thanks. That’s exactly the kind of feedback I’m looking for. It hasn’t lit my kid’s fire on paper because the local kids going seem more artsy/theater types rather than science types, and we’ve heard from one family that it was a little too mellow for their kid (now transferring out) and the interdisciplinary stuff seemed a little squishy, but I suspect there’s more there than meets the eye and it would really be a pretty accessible visit. Just trying to figure out how hard to press it. Based on our school’s history, it seems like a solid match.

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I was just trying to judge whether it was worth it or not based on your view of the prospects at Wesleyan. The two schools have similar admissions. The RD admit rate was 17% this year and for girls likely below 15%.

I don’t think Bates is quirky or particularly liberal but the kids I met were all very friendly and outgoing. If you think its a reach, then the only real prospect you have is to go and interview. It is a big deal there.

I have been there three times in the last year and while it isn’t overly preppy like Colgate or Bucknell, calling it quirky is a real stretch. In looking at the roster of the track team a good number are from eastern boarding schools. My son is coming from an all boys Catholic school and it it were quirky, he would have taken it off the list.

It is a nice mix of kids though…

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If Oberlin and Wesleyan are reaches, Bates will be a reach as well. I would prioritise Dickinson and Skidmore over Bates considering how many reaches you already have.

However, you said yourself that you sometimes find it difficult to differentiate between a reach and a match. That’s why @BatesParents2019 asked for basic stats- to make sure you actually have enough matches and reaches and to see if some of your schools aren’t worth visiting or if they should have priority. Indeed, prioritising visits is tricky when we have no idea what a students stats are.

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If you’re in NY, I’d do Skidmore before booking anything to the upper midwest I personally think it’s risky to visit reaches before schools that may be more likely. It can color a kid’s expectations. It’s said so often, but I’d look at Clark, too, in MA. If you’re worried about burnout, make the trips easy-going. You don’t have to visit every nook and cranny or sit through an entire info session. Each visit opens their eyes in new ways. Also, before a major plane trip, I’ be looking at how realistic a distant school is. Works for some, not others.

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I don’t know anything about Dickinson. I have friends whose kids have gone to and/or visited Skidmore and liked it and I think it is worth a visit (Saratoga is a cuteish town and nice in the summer). Maybe combine with Vassar which is more in the Wesleyan range but definitely has the vibe that you are looking for and I heard from an alum that they are putting money into science in general and physics in particular. I love Maine (in the summer) so I would say visit Bates and maybe add Colby. (Bowdoin sounds like a reach but it’s a very nice campus and close to Portland and Freeport if you are in that area.) If you stop at enough lobster shacks and ice cream stands, the kid may not even notice that s/he is on a college road trip! I should say, however, that I have not visited Maine in the winter and I would think about your kid’s tolerance for snow, cold and relative isolation before you take that trip. We are also trying to figure out which schools to try to visit in the 1-2 weeks we have in August. Rice, Case and Rochester are on the list of possible visits along with a bunch of other reachier schools.

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@BatesParents2019 Yes, the overall selectivity of Bates vs. Wesleyan is quite similar, but I’m also factoring in how each college looks at kids from our particular school, and frankly kids with my kid’s stats really don’t get a lot of consideration from Wesleyan (which is wildly popular here) but might have a shot at Bates (not as hotly sought out from here). This probably has a lot to do with geography/familiarity, but there it is. But I think I have my answer – Bates sounds like a great place, but probably insufficiently quirky to appeal to my kid enough to make it worth the effort to either visit or apply. (Though I really was secretly hoping for an excuse to chase down some lobster rolls.) So maybe if we’re in Maine ANYWAY, yes (could happen, nice place to visit)… but not a special trip for that purpose.

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Bates is plenty quirky. What BP may be reflecting is that it does a good job of attracting and satisfying a range of types, from quite conservative to quite liberal. But they look for an overall type, an energy, sense of direction, maturity, etc. You need to get a read on that for all the various LACs.

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It’s a catch 22, if you don’t visit and interview your child’s chances go down a lot. BTW, its Southern Maine, I would guess 275 miles from LI , really not that far.

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Do you all know the Liberty Mutual commercial where the girl talks about totalling her car named Brad? And how he helped her survive bad boyfriends and bad jobs. If that is quirky, then Bates has a lot of very expressive kids like that, along with boys with short hair, red pants and Sperry loafers.

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Oh, one clarification: Due to the kid’s schedule, there is NO opportunity for visiting until the very very end of the summer. Any visits would be squeezed in to a one-week period before Labor Day or during the school year, competing with a heavy academic schedule along with applications. Hence, trying to be very choosy. (And yet, not miss an opportunity to show interest where it matters.)

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You’ve got a lot of small schools which means freshman classes < 1000 in most cases, half of which will be M / F (unclear if you have a D or a S) all of which doesn’t leave very many seats for class of 2020 which in turn makes visiting and showing interest extremely important. If you’re in NY state, than the Jewish holidays work very much in your favor this year. A four-day weekend Sept. 12 - 15 and another day of Sept. 23. Then you’ve got Columbus Day. Visit as many as you can. You should also find out what schools are visiting your school in the fall or hosting events on Long Island. My S & D went to a lot of local events & attended sessions at their hs. Find out which schools require interviews and schedule. Again, can frequently be done locally.

You haven’t said whether FA is a factor or not, but if it is you need to figure out what kind of merit $$$ your kid might be up for. I know, for example, that Dickinson offers merit up to $20K and it’s pretty much all based on SAT scores. We loved Dickinson. It made my daughter’s final 4 but ultimately felt a little too small. Great school though and it’s trajectory seems to be rising. Skidmore is lovely, especially in the summertime. It is very artsy though. If you have a S I’d say odds are better as the M/F ratio seems to skew F. I remember when my D and I toured one kid on the tour asked “Can I bring my horse?” And the answer was yes!!

Good luck.

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The general advice is go when students are there and engaged in student things. Even a Sat or Sun. D1 ended up not applying to Wes, but was so impressed by how the library was packed on a Sat am. Imo, if you plan ahead for some day off during the fall semester, the hs work can be handled.

Just saying: during the Jewish holidays, Skid was empty, the waiting room in admissions was packed.

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Several people have compared the selectivity of Bates to that of Wesleyan. I’m surprised. In the school in my town, the average stats of kids accepted to Bates is 94 GPA / 2070 SAT. For Wesleyan, its 96 and 2200. Not that comparable.

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For our district:

Bates 94 GPA / 2040 SAT / 29 ACT
Wesleyan 95 GPA / 2160 SAT / 33 ACT

The ACT discrepancy is interesting, but perhaps just less used, so less relevant?

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The stuff I have from admissions has Wesleyan avg at 2105 and AVG ACT of 31 which is the same as Bates. The SAT scores are both in same percentile, 96th.

It could be because more apply to Wesleyan from that school. At my son’s school this is what happens because they all apply to the same group of Catholic schools and they take a certain number starting from the top.