Profanity in Theatre

College Majors Musical Theater Major
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<p>Profanity in Theatre </p>

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<p>I originally posted this on the CMU acceptance tips thread in response to another comment. My response prompted a request to start a new thread. Here is the original post:</p>

<p>What does everyone think of theatre and censorship? Mrsark87 and others-- you must realize that most modern playwrights use profanity, vulgarity, controversial subject matter and nudity. Here is a tiny sampling of award-winning playwrights that have used various degrees of shocking language and subjects: Arthur Miller, Tenesee Williams, Edward Albee, Harold Pinter, Christopher Durang, Harvey Fierstein, George C. Wolfe, John Patrick Shanley, Marsha Norman,Tony Kushner, Wendy Wasserstein, Lee Blessing, Tenesee Williams.....on and on and on.
As as actor, one will find themselves in situations where "profanities" are integral to the text. Even musicals, like "A Chorus Line" "Caroline or Change" and "Avenue Q" deal with issues of sexuality, race, religion and G-d knows what else.
Does the CC audience feel that one should put aside their religious differences for the sake of performance? I realize that although this issue isn't central to MT college choices, anyone going into the theatre world must consider the much more liberal atmosphere that exists in this field compared to some other professions.</p>

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<p>first of all, this was begun in reference to my offense at offensive languange on this site. there's a vast difference in that and an "artistic" use of it. but, secondly, my personal feeling is that to "put aside your religious differences for the sake of performance" is simply setting aside your beliefs so that you can have a role that you want. do you believe what you believe or not?</p>

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<p>My belief is that if you have a problem with profanity, you're probably in the wrong field. I'd personally feel cheated if I weren't asked to cuss like a sailor and get naked on stage at some point in my collegiate career. ;) Seems like I remember when I was researching some of my choices that there had been a problem at Utah with a student who had been asked to leave the program suing claiming it was because she refused to use profanity in a production. I think she was claiming her religious rights had been violated. yada yada yada ... I don't know if she won or not.</p>

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<p>the question freelance poses is quite different from the issue of language use on this site. (And the latter seems to have resolved itself with a simple and gracious apology.) I would agree with mrsark that if you strongly believe something, you aren't going to compromise that. but what I think is so wonderful, and important about all the arts is that they teach us that there are myriad ways of looking at the world--and that there is room in this world for many views. It is not chance that totalitarian regimes always clamp down on the arts.</p>

<p>I don't think the question freelance poses is easy to answer. I would also broaden it to include more than just religious beliefs. Aside from language that may be offensive, playwrites write about subject matter that is sure to offend someone. For our children, it seems to me that controversial subjects, etc. provide an opportunity-- for our kids especially--to explore ideas and to question their beliefs, to test their opinions. Of course we all have our lines which we won't cross; it's just that our lines are all over the place.</p>

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<p>MrsArk...I do agree that the use of certain language that you might find offensive is different when in normal discourse or posting as compared to used in artistic scripts. </p>

<p>As far as putting aside religious differences in a performance...I disagree with you as far as your belief that to do so, might mean you do not "believe" in whatever your religious values/beliefs are. I think when performing a role, you are ACTING. You are playing someone other than yourself. If your character is involved in something hateful like a hate crime or murder, it does not mean you also believe that is right or moral but you are being someone else. If your character uses profanity, it does not mean that you yourself would choose to use such language in your conversations. If your character believes in witchcraft but you do not yourself, you are just acting THAT character's beliefs, not your own. You are not agreeing with the character by doing so. You are portraying that character's morals, religious beliefs, and so forth. So, as a parent, I do not mind my child PORTRAYING a character whose beliefs differ from my own. If the character is an atheist and I am not, that is ok. If the character is a devout Christian and I am Jewish, that is fine by me. If the character takes drugs and uses vulgar profanity, I know my kid is acting the part, and not necessarily condoning the beliefs or behaviors. I think that is what acting involves. Perhaps there might be material that I find extremely inappropriate, and then I might have to think about participating, but it would not have to do with religious beliefs. </p>

<p>Of course, this is just my opinion or what I feel comfortable with. But I think you have to think about this because it goes with the territory of acting. I don't think the audience, however, will take it to mean that the actor holds whatever the beliefs are that are being portrayed but rather that the actor played a role and that the character held whatever the beliefs were. Further, I don't think that by portraying a certain belief on stage (be it religious, or using profanity, etc), does it then follow that the person on stage condones such beliefs. The actor is just telling the story of someone who does.
Susan</p>

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<p>Our children who are in theatre, if they haven't already, will be faced with playing roles which do not reflect themselves as individuals. This is inevitable and a matter of course. This is what acting is all about. If these kids are not willing to do that, then I agree, they are definitely on the wrong career path. They will, more than likely, be asked at some point in their careers to swear, to, as Thesbo said, be naked onstage ;), to portray an individual whose character traits are objectionable, I don't think that any of them will be surprised by this. Most kids who are applying to the programs which are discussed here on CC have had a lot of theatre experience in various types of roles. I don't see the problem with a student having to use profane language onstage, just as I don't see a problem with a student being cast as a drug dealer or a murderer, etc. Assassins, anyone? :) </p>

<p>Using profanity on CC is a different issue. It should be avoided, not even just for the religious issue, but because civil discourse is encouraged here.</p>

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<p>There are actors who restrict themselves to wholesome shows. THere are theatre groups with a religious slant, and some of them do quite well. That route is there for whomever feels that is the way to go. In mainstream theatre and entertainment, it is not going to be so easy if you want to be self sufficient. It is difficult enough to get there as it is. Most of us have morality lines that we do not want to cross, and they vary from person to person. I personaly feel that my personal lines are being crossed more and more often on television, radio. It seems that even prime time shows that should have a wide audience are inundated with sexuality, innuendo and violence that is often unnecessary, sometime ludicrous. Frightening that young kids watch this thinking that the whole world out there works that way. </p>

<p>It's not an easy path to maneuver. There is the reality and then how you look at it. I don't know how my kids speak when I am not around, but there is very little profanity in our family interactions even when things get heated with H most guilty of transgressions. And things have gotten awfully hot around here at times, I assure you. I have been around kids at college and highschool where they can't utter a sentence without profanity. I can't imagine they speak at home that way.</p>

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<p>What some people consider provocative, worthwhile entertainment, others consider perverted, offensive or just plain gross. Case in point, though not precisely the religion/profanity point: last summer my D was in a HS/college production of Sweeney Todd. Sure, it's twisted, but to me it's genius. However, some of her friends and ours who saw it (and hadn't been familiar with it before) really had trouble...uh...stomaching it. Last fall she was in her public school's production of Songs for a New World. No grotesque characters doing unspeakable things, but there were some four-letter words, most of which stayed in. The kids and director agreed that replacement words just wouldn't sound right or feel right.</p>

<p>I'm a writer myself. Words, in theatre or elsewhere, are tremendously important to me. In theatre, I have no problem with profanity if it suits a character, but I can't stand writing that's profane just for the sake of being profane. It's not the profanity itself that bothers me, it's the lazy writing. </p>

<p>The career of my D's dreams will have her playing a vast range of characters. Some will be good, wholesome, sophisticated, well-spoken, clever, interesting and funny. Some will be bad, nasty, ignorant, profane, clever, interesting and funny. If she's lucky, most will be a mix of good and bad qualities, just like real people. I hope she's both lucky and adventurous in her roles. I don't see her choosing to restrict herself to wholesome shows, and I honestly hope she doesn't.</p>

<p>What might bother me is seeing her in a role that's pure polemic or that's just a vehicle for a religious or political agenda. No, to be honest, what would bother me is if the agenda were something I didn't agree with. But when she's pursuing her career as an adult, I hope I'll have the sense to trust her upbringing, education, judgment and decisions.</p>

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<p>as a father, can you watch your daughter play a nude slut on stage and still be proud.</p>

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<p>I'm not a father, but as a mother I'll answer that. If she gives a good performance, which she always does, yes, I am always proud. Having said that, I would like to comment that in the hundreds of live performances I've seen in my life, I don't recall any roles which were, as you put it, "nude sluts". Or perhaps you are projecting your own beliefs/feelings/ideas on any show which contains some nudity? I hope that you aren't insinuating that any actor who appears in a nude scene is a 'slut'.</p>

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<p>please don't put words in my mouth. i just have a different set of standards, i guess. i thought if i took your ideas to the extreme, it might make my point that some roles just shouldn't be acceptable. i just don't think you can excuse using certain language or behavior by saying, "it's just playing a role." it's still you and you're still the one saying those things. i'm not talking about portraying a person such as a murderer. i'm saying that with some people, there are lines they don't cross. there are hundreds of great roles that don't require an actor to compromise their values. i just don't think you can excuse some behaviors or roles by saying, you're just playing a part. having said that, i'm through with this thread. i can see that there's just a different set of beliefs here and i know i'm going to be attacked for mine. so, i'll just leave you guys with this conversation.</p>

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<p>mrsark87, please don't abandon this thread! I'm sorry if you feel attacked. Others who have posted here might have views that differ from yours, but I strongly doubt that anyone has meant to attack you. I hope you'll keep offering and explaining your point of view. It's so important to discuss and exchange opinions, even -- especially -- when they're not the same as our own. In fact, one of the largest and most serious problems in our country is that we as citizens as well as our elected officials, clergy, etc., have, to a terrible extent, stopped doing that.</p>

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<p>Mrsark,</p>

<p>I've been following this conversation with some interest and would be very disappointed if you choose to withdraw from it, especially since you were brave enough to begin it by expressing your feelings in the first place. I personally come down on the same side of this discussion as Artsymom (and it is clear why she is a writer - I also have a great interest in "wordsmithing" and worry that it is underappreciated by many in our culture these days). But I totally respect your right to have and voice your opinions and share the concern that if people with opposing points of view stop talking to each other, the divide that appears to be growing in our country will only widen and fossilize. A difference of opinion is just that - a difference, not an attack. We have much to learn from each other. Let's continue to help each other by engaging in these types of discussions with openess, fairness and sensitivity.</p>

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<p>mrsark, my reply was no more an attack on you than, I hope, yours was an attack on me. The exchange of ideas is never a bad thing. What IS bad, in my opinion, is not opening your mind to the ideas of others, and to try to make generalizations which are based on your own beliefs. That's what's interesting about the exchange of ideas and experiences here on these forums. We all have the opportunity to learn. Certainly, every actor has the option to make decisions on which roles he/she will or will not audition for, or play. This shouldn't mean, though, that aspersions are cast on someone who makes a different decision. Saying "some rules just shouldn't be acceptable" is your right, but only for you. </p>

<p>The way a part is played, the lines spoken, reflect the character, not the actor. That's one of the joys of being an actor, to experience the opportunity to be another character. Most roles are like this. It's rare that someone gets cast in a role in which they don't have to ACT at all. :) My D, and the many kids we know who are performing in colleges, national tours, off-Broadway, and on Broadway, have all played roles which portrayed characters to whom none would aspire in their own lives. To play a murderer, or a victim or spousal abuse, or a prison matron, or a Nubian princess, or Belle in B & B, or a lesbian performance artist, or a wicked or a good witch, all these roles call for the actor to lose themselves in the character. This is the beauty of theatre! :)</p>

<p>Please don't leave the discussion.</p>

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<p>My son played Arab in West Side Story; it was with a semi-professional community theatre that had stipulated no one under 17 for the auditions. S was 15, (he has been able to pass for 18 since he was 13) when I picked him up one night I asked the typical question, “How was rehearsal?” His response, “my soul is black tonight”. He went on to explain they had rehearsed the scene where Anita comes to Doc’s and the Jets “attack” her. The director wanted the scene for the most part raw and Arab particularly violent: I wondered if I had made a mistake allowing him into this show. In the end it made for a wonderful discuss between us. S’s acting has led to many discussions like that. He is such a gentle soul, is a vegetarian who carries bugs outside. I believe he “sees” theatre as a way to educate people and move them to make the world a better place (while entertaining them and having fun along the way) a view that I am sure is shared by many of these young artists.
I personally do not like the language/cruelty in a lot of to today’s entertainment. I have a friend, a former Vietnam POW who walked out of the Passions of Christ, he told me only a sadist could sit through that movie. I wouldn’t want my son to act in such a violent piece, be nude or use language that as my father puts it, "shows your limited vocabulary", but I know my S is his own person and I respect his choices while not always agreeing with his choices. I can choose not to support the art I find offensive and will continue to do so, but I know my choices are NOT always my S's choices and I choose to support "his" art. I think this is something that many of us will find hard as we have these wonderful children move on to explore their future.</p>

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<p>MrsArk, I am sorry you feel compelled to leave the discussion on this topic but moreover feel badly that you feel "attacked". I certainly did not think I was attacking you or did I read any other posts that came across that way in intent either. I am sorry you feel attacked in any case. I read the responses here as a variety of opinions on the subject which is what a discussion entails. I certainly very much respect your viewpoint and feel that you should not have your child engage in any roles in which you would feel are inappropriate for you. Some of us have different thoughts on that when it comes to theater and are just voicing how we feel about this topic. It does not make one opinion here right and another wrong but merely we all view it differently and even have different values when it comes to this. </p>

<p>As far as your example of the "nude slut" character and having our own child portray such a role...my take on it is this....I don't mind my child playing a "slut" on stage. I feel it is rare that a stage role involves nudity (I would not be that opposed to that in certain roles such as in Hair). There are few things that would bother me when my child played a role on stage but I suppose there might be something that I find inappropriate and would have to weigh it if it arose (at least while she was under 18, cause after that, it is her decision). For instance, I would be opposed to my child being in a porn movie. But as far as any other examples on the original topic such as using profanity on stage, portraying religious beliefs that go against our own, I'd be totally fine with that. Again, I don't think if you portray a certain belief as an actor, that you condone it, believe in it yourself, etc. Scripts tell a story and the actors in them portray that story and I'm ok with if the beliefs in the story oppose my own. I certainly respect your opinion if you would be uncomfortable having your child do the same in certain situations. </p>

<p>Susan</p>

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<p>thank you all for your encouragement. again, i'm not speaking of portraying a "bad person" in a role. i'm speaking of the behavior you have to use to play a role. if that role calls for nudity or profane language, and your belief system opposes those things........then, you just can't separate the role from yourself. i completely understand what you're saying about just "playing a character." but, you just can't use that as an excuse to compromise your values and just say, "well, that really isn't me." it is you. it may not be your values, but you have to face the fact that it is still you standing there playing that part and saying those words and displaying your nude body. if i believe that it is wrong to display my body outside my home, then it's still wrong for me to do that, even in the guise of a role in a play. and again, i don't think we're going to come to any resolution here. some of us just have a completely different set of views and none of us are going to change the other's mind. my daughter is a gifted actress but there are lines she won't cross, not for any role. that's what beliefs are. if you're willing to compromise them for any reason, then you don't really believe in them.</p>

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<p>Msark, different views are what make for discussion and learning. Yes, there are some of us so set that we are not going to budge. Some of us are unsure and vacillate. Many of us are willing to take a nugget here or there that makes sense, and it is one tiny step forward for that cause. It is a bit much to expect an immediate reverse in opinion and way of life. It is the little things that can make the difference. I may not agree with all of your commentaries but I am reading and thinking. Please do not let opinions that are not aligned with yours chase you away. The only times I get taken aback here on these boards, is not by the opinion, but by the rudeness that some poster go after others. I suppose that is indicative of the world as well, but I have seen that the moderators are pretty much on the ball about warning these people. Your ideas and opinions are welcome with me, and it seems with the above posters. Many of us struggle with the gray area between the lines, or have no real lines, and we struggle in raising our kids, particularly relating to some issues. All suggestions are welcome, though not always taken. </p>

<p>Jami</p>

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<p>I never thought that by opening this thread that I would be causing such controversy. As a former radio/TV producer who also freelances as a writer, I am very sensitive to the values of "an audience". Overall, I feel that this discussion mirrors the many different opinions and ideas that make our country great. It also raises many unanswerable questions, provides a wonderful forum to explore new ideas and raises our consciousness--like all great works of theatre and the arts.</p>

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<p>freelance,</p>

<p>I am very glad you opened this thread and I praise you for doing so. Personally speaking, I think a truly meaningful discussion of this type was long over due for this thread. After all isn't that the basis of good art?....expressing ones opinions.</p>

<p>There are many successful working actors who decide to choose roles in accordance to their moral values. Julia Roberts for example has refused to appear nude (however did play a hooker in "Pretty Woman") and Denzel Washington is another example of an actor who refuses to shed his clothing for the camera.</p>

<p>However, to each his own. I personally would not have a problem with my Ss portraying characters opposite the fiber of their being. On the contrary, I would jump for joy that they were secure enough to do so and also had the courage to take the risk. Taking a risk is something that training actors are encouraged and required to do. I question how an actor can truly evolve if they have such stringent barriers...because one <strong>portrays</strong> a character doesn't mean one condones the behavior.</p>

<p>As we discuss censorship, I must chime in with my soap box and that is the problem I have with the movement in America to banish such playwrights as Tennessee Williams from school curriculum simply because he writes from a gay perspective. Would like to know your opinions on this topic.</p>

<p>Have a good one everyone!</p>

<p>SUE</p>