<p>Please describe your high school experience (grades, test scores, ECs, etc) and any factors you think helped/ did not help in being accepted. Also, what has your experience at Wharton been like and what advice would you give for aspiring applicants?</p>
<p>this thread is really interesting
I would like to hear about the profiless too</p>
<p>Do a search for the official accepted threads for mid-December and early April and you’ll see the data.</p>
<p>Ya…those results threads are gonna b ur best bet. However, I would giv u one warning when you look at those results. Make sure you look at the hooks the admitted person has. If the person is a URM/Legacy/recruit, they could get in with much lower stats than a person who is hookless. So, make sure you always look at those things!!!</p>
<p>Im having a hard time finding the results threads… can someone post a link?</p>
<p>Btw how big of a hook is being a first-generation college student?</p>
<p>Stats: Accepted: The Wharton School at The University of Pennsylvania ED </p>
<p>SAT: 2320 1520/1600 (I took it again just for kicks)
SAT IIs: 750 Bio, 740 US Hist
ACT: NA
GPA: 3.7 (Top Prep School)
Rank: top 15-20th percentile (my school does not rank so i’m just throwing a dart in the dark here)
Ap Courses: 5 US Hist, 5 Bio, 5 Literature. taking gov, micro and macro econ, and calc this year. </p>
<p>Other stats: </p>
<p>Subjective:
Essays: Excellent
Teacher Recs: Excellent
Counselor Rec: Excellent
Hook (if any): URM, Rec from Clinton administration official (also a Yale Law school lecturer and the CEO of a boutique firm), Rec from world famous TIME 100 politician, intensive economic research.
Location/Person:
State or Country: (From / have roots in many places but it would be too revealing)
School Type: Top Boarding School
Gender: M
major strength/weakness: My research, my speaking skills in debate etc
why you think you were accepted/rejected/defered where you were: recs, leadership (pres. of student body, secretary general at ymun conference, 2 time Yale MUN best delegate winner, etc.
significant awards/recongitions: Ap scholar ? nothing much really.
summer activities: Worked for a world famous politician over the summer (~50 hour weeks, 70 on very busy weeks) and the yale lecturer on my microfinance research. </p>
<p>Other Factors: have roots / lived in 3 continents. Speak 2 languages. have excellent returns on my portfolio</p>
<p>I’m also an African American male. Not sure if that made a difference (Rtgrove) Robbie, perhaps you can tell me why I did not deserve to get in. The way you talk, you make it seem like no AA deserves to get in based on stats alone, which is not true. You will find many AA kids that are smarter than you, don’t be shocked.</p>
<p>
There’s no need to put words in the guy’s mouth kafkare, and you’re making some pretty illogical stretches here. It’s a fact that legacies, URMs, and athletes can and will often get in with lower stats, and that often needs to be taken into account by an unhooked applicant trying to gauge their likelihood of admittance. He didn’t say that all of those who get in with those things necessarily have lesser stats or wouldn’t have gotten in without those factors. I’m a double-legacy probable-recruited-athlete with a 2400 and a few academic accolades and I can at least understand that just because I have advantages that others don’t doesn’t mean I’d be chopped liver without them (certainly neither would you be).</p>
<p>Ya…I was not at all saying that every hooked applicant is not qualified. I simply was urging the OP to make sure he reviews the applicants on those results threads holistically. When I was looking at results threads last year, I didnt always look at a persons hooks and thus got a faulty idea of what it takes to get into some of these schools. Sorry if that offended you or something…</p>
<p>I’m not sure why you are jumping to the conclusion I think all URMs are less intelligent than whites/asians, Kafkareborn. You seem like a smart person, so I am not sure why are you were trying to jump to some BS conclusion based upon what I said. You are a well connected URM with good stats who would have had a decent shot at getting in without all that stuff. I simply will not attack you or your profile because what good would that really do?</p>
<p>I sincerely do look forward to getting to meet you next year and getting studying with you at the same university,</p>
<p>Robbie</p>
<p>I think the problem is that sometimes people only look at numerical information to determine if someone is “qualified”. Being intelligent and a good fit for a certain school doesn’t always have to do with just numbers. There are some very important qualities that top schools look for that can only be measured by more personal documents such as recommendations and essays. Although many times (maybe even most of the time) people with these intangible qualities also have very high test scores, the correlation is not always correct. So we have to understand this limitation when thinking about college admissions.</p>
<p>I know a very intelligent girl who has a learning disability that specifically makes it very difficult for her to take multiple choice tests even though she is very smart and understands the material. She got into her top choice school which is an excellent school regarded as one of best universities in the world. Maybe she differed from other applicants in numbers when she applied, but if you met her in person, it is clear that she belongs in that school.</p>
<p>I don’t think what anyone said here is wrong, it’s just sometimes you have to be careful how you word your opinions because it can come across as meaning something different than you intended.</p>
<p>Poeme, </p>
<p>I agree with you, admission into Wharton isn’t driven by numbers for every student, but I think it’s perfectly fair and logical for most of us to to focus primarily on numerical information because a close look at our scores is how most of us were selected to the program. For every student like the one to whom you referred, there are 49 others selected primarily on SAT scores, GPA, class standing, etc. That doesn’t mean numbers are everything – essays, ECs, and recommendations are also important – but without a very strong SAT and other quantitative data, most of us wouldn’t have had a chance at getting into Wharton, so I think the OP’s question is reasonable. </p>
<p>To the OP, </p>
<p>I think you’ll need to demonstrate good leadership skills through ECs (beyond being the president of a school club or two). You’ll need demonstrable passion for at least one EC. You’ll need extremely well written essays and strong recommendations. You’ll need an SAT above 2200, and several SAT IIs above 750. As for class standing, you’ll need to be in the top 10 percent of your class (the higher the better), unless you attend a well-known, demanding high school that sends many students to the Ivies (like karkareborn’s school). </p>
<p>Good luck!!</p>
<p>I may be wrong about you, I hope I am. Nothing you said on this thread made me upset. I know that some URMs do get in with stats that may be perceived to be lower than average. It is the stuff I saw that you wrote on other threads, in conjunction with what you wrote on this thread, that upset me.
</p>
<p>I found the following quote the most disturbing of all. Even though you merely questioned what someone else’s reasons were for the perceived causes of AA underachievement, the mere fact that you brought up “biological issues” was, I felt, inappropriate because it could invite a stream of very bigoted comments even though you did not say them yourself. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>To me, the tone of your messages just seem borderline inappropriate. If you are just telling people to look at applications holistically, sure I have no problem with that, but when you seem to make light of the intellect of URMs “if anyone could pull off an ivy with rly, rly rusty stats, it would be a URM” that’s when I start feeling uncomfortable. That just makes people like me feel that we will be looked down on or perceived to be dumber than everyone else just because of our color. That’s not fair.</p>
<p>I’ve faced enough racism in various parts of the world and it’s made me have a very low tolerance level for that type of thing. Just last week I was ignored by a waiter for 30 minutes to get served at a restaurant, and that was only when I demanded it. He told me to “make sure you have the money to pay” and crap like that and just plain ignored me. He made an assumption about my monetary situation based merely on the color of my skin, I just don’t want the same thing to happen at Penn with regards to academics. So I may be over-reacting, but I think you can see why. </p>
<p>You seem like a nice guy and I do not think that you harbor any racism at all. I also look forward to going to school with you. You are fully entitled to your opinion that many esteemed members of society hold, like Clarence Thomas. I respect your right to be against AA; I would just be careful with your choice of words looking forward and never make assumptions about people based on their race.</p>
<p>Fair enough. Just please know that I do understand that there are smart hispanics, asians, whites, and blacks. At times, yes, I do get bitter when I see a URM/legacy/recruit get into a top school with what I perceive to be a less than stellar resume. Yet, I do acknowledge the fact that some URMs (like urself) could prbly have gotten into these schools without a boost from AA.</p>
<p>kafkareborn, </p>
<p>Another African-American student posted on Penn’s board several weeks ago explaining his frustration that people naturally assume he was accepted into an Ivy because of AA. Like you, he had stellar scores and achievements. I suppose this is the downside to AA. The upside, of course, is that there will be URMs with lower scores who will be given the opporunity to attend an Ivies and other great schools. Those students exist and there’s no reason to pretend otherwise, since that’s a good thing. I’m sorry people make these assumptions about you, but I respectfully suggest it’s a small price for the benefits of AA. People aren’t going to change. All races make rude assumptions about other races; that’s just human. The only way to avoid rude assumptions about students like you would be to eliminate AA altogether. That’s would be tragic. So becoming angry about these people is counter-productive.</p>
<p>I think that the primary goal of affirmative action is to admit students who have what it takes to succeed if given the opportunity. I think this is true for minorities like african americans and hispanics because they have historically had a much different experience in the U.S. than white people and even minorities such as Asians and Jews. I also think it’s true for kids who don’t have the monetary resources. Though it may not always work out ideally, I do think that affirmative action has done great things for this country. Although sometimes it can make people feel resentful, I think it’s for the greater good.
In my own experience, I used to feel a little resentful in the past when kids with learning disabilities got extended time on tests. I thought that since everyone had trouble finishing, why should they get extended time? However, after talking to several kids who had learning disabilities, I realized how extended time doesn’t even come close to making up for the frustration caused by a learning disability and also for the harsh judgments kids receive from other students and even teachers.</p>
<p>What percent of the incoming Wharton class is non-minority/non-legacy/non-recruit? I’m starting to feel like I don’t even have a chance.</p>
<p>Poeme, great post. We are in agreement on this issue. The fact is the matter is that just by being black, no matter how smart or successful you are, you will always be looked down upon by some sectors in society and that will hold some opportunities back from you. </p>
<p>I’ve been slapped by random taxi cab drivers, spat on, been told I will never amount to anything, been followed around shops by staff constantly (incase I steal something), and have had people refuse to sit next to me on full trains simply because I am black; I could go on, but I will not bore you – none of this happened in America, but still it’s relevant. Racism affects everyone, but we would be fooling ourselves if we did not recognize that blacks get the largest brunt of it. As a result, many black kids grow up feeling inferior and never develop the confidence necessary to get the stats we so proudly parade. And I was one of the lucky ones, let’s just say I did not grow up in the Ghetto. I know that I have many advantages that most kids don’t and that helped me immensely, but even I faced difficulty and prejudice. I can only imagine how much worse it would be for a kid growing up there. I had my father’s example to provide me with inspiration, but I fully believe that I would never have done half the things I did had I not had that. 70% of black families are single-parent families. Without the advantages I had, I stood no chance: the emotional strain would have broken me. I saw it happen to one of my childhood friends who did not have the same advantages I had. He went home crying everyday because of the racism and began to believe that he was not intelligent simply because his peers told him that was so. The kid was smarter than me, but he just couldn’t deal with the pressure and cracked. He ended up with like a 1700 and went off to a so-so college. </p>
<p>I’m not saying he deserves to be at Penn, but I am saying that the reasons blacks under-perform sometimes have nothing to do with intelligence or even income so one can understand why colleges compensate for that. That’s the difficulty. You cannot know what it is like until you experience it. It’s easy for us to say that getting such and such stats is so easy and therefore only we deserve to be in such institutions, but would you be able to do what you did if you grew up in an environment full of racism, poverty, and likely without a role-model? I doubt it. So don’t be so quick to judge. </p>
<p>One of my friend’s at my last school, I assume, did not have the stats necessary to get into a top university. She lived through the Rwandan genocide and shuffled her way through school at refugee camps, she finally came to America where she was reunited with her family on Oprah. If we judged her based on her stats, you would probably conclude that she did not ‘deserve’ to be there, but of course she does. She had the potential to succeed at the school and did do so, that’s all that is relevant. I talked to her a lot and she enriched my life immensely. She brings something intangible to the community that a number does not reflect. Now that is an extreme case, but the same is true of AAs in general. That’s why I think AA is important, it gives people who were disadvantaged a chance AND it enriches the community from everyone else. Instead of feeling bitter, go and talk to an AA about his/her life, you’ll probably learn a lot in the process and be a better person for it.</p>
<p>Now I know that this post will seem ultra whiny, but I think it’s worth addressing.</p>
<p>Poeme:</p>
<p>I don’t know if I would compare giving kids with learning disabilities more time on tests with affirmative action.</p>
<p>Plus, I think asians have had an extremely hard time in the US. Don’t be so quick to forget things like the internment camps, chinese train labor, anti-chinese/asian immigrant acts (like the Gentleman’s Agreement under Teddy Roosevelt), and historic attacks and discrimination against asians on the West coast. Now, was asian treatment in Americas as bad as that of the Africans in the US? Probably not. However, asians have been treated terribly in our nation (I’m not gonna try 2 compare their treatment to that of hispanics or w/e…but they both have been bad).</p>
<p>So ya, I think many people and many different groups have been open to persecution. However, I’m not sure how healthy AA is for America. I mean we all have been taught since we were in first grade that everybody is equal and should be treated the same despite our skin color. Then, we begin to enter the college admissions process and find that we are clearly judged on the basis of skin color. That, I believe, generates a significant amount of racism. I am no racist. I love people of every color and would gladly fight for any racial minority’s rights. However, I have many white and asian friends who are all brilliant. Many come from poverty and have to work extremely hard to succeed in school. Then, when they see that some of that even their wealthy URM peers can gain admission into elite colleges without attaining the same scores or w/e, a seed of racism is planted in their heads, ensuring that the cycle of racial resentment is carried on to the next generation. </p>
<p>Thus, I firmly believe that we should do away with racial affirmative action and instead give a boost in admissions to those who come from lower social economic backgrounds. I say this as a middle class, christian, white male. Discrimination exists (though I do not believe that discrimination plays a HUGE role in American society now…otherwise we would sure as hell not have a black president and supreme court justice) against Jews, Asians, Blacks, and latinos. However, major advantages are given to all people who come from extravagently wealthy families…whether those families are white or black. I mean come on do you really think that President Obama’s daughters need a boost in the college admissions process. Instead, we need to aid those brought down by poverty. I don’t see a need to aid black children who come from extremely wealthy families…I mean their parents will likely instill in them an understanding of how to succeed in life and give them the resources needed to excel. However, a poor white family who lives in a ghetto, a place where education is not exactly cherished, will probably have children who will likely never be able to attend top schools because they lack societal and monetary support. Why can we not help those families?</p>
<p>^^ Colleges already do give an advantage to under-privileged families and first generation college applicants.</p>
<p>Racial injustices are a huge problem in the US, but we are getting off topic.</p>
<p>Regardless of affirmative action, people of all colors accepted into Wharton seem to have incredible connections and ECs from my POV. My main EC is piano and I am entering my junior year; I only recently learned that extracurriculars are an important factor in being admitted into a school like Wharton. </p>
<p>Even if it may be considered late for me to start, I want to begin ECs that would help me get into, if not Wharton, a good business school. My school does not have an Interact club or NHS chapter, so I will attempt to start them and I plan on participating in acadec. </p>
<p>But still, I have no idea where to start with ECs. Things like working for a world famous politician are outstanding but not feasible for me. I really need help with this…</p>
<p>^^ I don’t think that my application is representative of the whole. You do not have to work for a politician or anything like that. You have to find something that you are truly passionate about (it could be starting a uni-cycle business) and devote a lot of time to making something substantial and unusual out of it. I started out just by researching micro-finance, spent a lot of time on it and came up with something and one thing led to another, that’s all you have to do.</p>