Programs that do not offer MT major but place students professionally-Fordham, Juilliard, Yale, etc.

For institutions like Fordham, Juilliard, Yale and others I am missing that have a strong track record of alumni landing in professional MT productions but that do not themselves offer a MT major, what major(s) are these students completing?

How are these students “making up” dance, or singing or acting training that they may be missing due to limitations in their major’s curriculum and / or the school’s restrictions placed on students in taking classes in other departments?

Does the same hold true for schools in London like LAMDA, RADA and Guildhall or do their degrees amply cover acting / dancing / singing?

I realize the response may have to be specific to each of the programs above. Any insights, general or specific, would be appreciated. I also realize that this topic, in some ways, falls outside this forum, but I felt the most qualified people to respond would all “be here.”

I should have noted above that my questions relate to undergraduate, and not graduate, studies.

My D is finishing a semester at RADA - dance was part of the curriculum, music was not

For undergrad -UNCSA BFA drama. Current students and alum have been and are currently in movies, tv, plays and musicals (Broadway; tours; regional). Many MT kids choose to go here over other MT programs as they require a lot of dance and voice, but have a focus on acting from a toolbox approach. Lots of technique, movement, stage combat, mask, etc. It is a 4 year sequence for most of this (not just one dance class or just one mask class- but a four year approach). They do musicals (more straight plays though) and also dance/musical showcases during class and “intensive arts weeks” (an interim semester of sorts with various arts workshops and showcases). Last year the freshman did an incredible dance number for this and my freshman daughter is currently working on a number from Aida for this. Her dance professor is a Broadway veteran. It is a VERY physical program.

Also-Yale school of drama is an MFA. Undergrad is BA in theatre studies and not performance based. Still awesome but not the “famed” school of drama at the undergrad level.

Some/many of these students had extensive training in some combination of music, acting, and dance prior to college. No doubt all of them are supremely talented and probably could have walked out of high school and onto a Broadway stage (or at least a National Tour, like one of my d’s friends-of-a-friend, Caitlin Ehlinger). A fairly significant percentage of Broadway performers did not attend college or they did not major in theatre in college. A BFA in MT is “icing on the cake” for many actors destined for Broadway, not a fundamental training ground.

You beat me to it @bfahopeful! UNCSA, for sure.

@EmsDad ditto. Audra McDonald went to Julliard as a VP major, but absolutely hated it! Heidi Blickenstaff went to Duke as pre-law. Both have said that an MT major was not necessary.

While Yale definitely has a strong reputation, that rep is for their graduate program, the Yale School of Drama, not their undergrad program.

EmsDad, Do you know what percentage of professional MT principal performers just have a high school / GED as opposed to either an undergraduate or graduate degree? What’s the breakdown?

My sister was a professional ballerina for ~ 14 years and I believe ~ 95% just had a high school / GED; for whatever reason, I thought many more MT principal performers had at least an undergraduate degree…

@Twelfthman - I don’t have the statistics you were looking for, but I would say that dance is a young person’s game… you would WANT to start early - don’t many careers only last 10-15 years? With MT and other performance, I think the maturity gained during college can help get the gigs. Plus- in HS many kids look like they are in HS- and that can limit the range for performing in show. My Husband watched a video of a kid we know play Norma Desmond in a summer camp production (French Woods) last night… but that isn’t reality for a professional (thank heavens!! IMHO the 18 year old Valjeans are bad enough!)

@Twelfthman - Several years ago I went through 1,216 online bios from actors in 48 Broadway shows, Off-Broadway shows, and National Tours. Only 466 listed their schools (38%), which tells me that its not all that important and/or many actors did not attend college. Of the 466 that did list their schools, about 20% were schools without MT programs, just under 10% specifically listed another major, and 20-30% were dance majors, so, upwards of 50% of actors that did list their schools, did not receive an MT degree.

Its really hard to nail down what percentage did not attend college unless you do 1,000+ google searches to investigate all the actors that do not list a school on their bio, but the list of well-known actors who did not attend college includes Laura Benanti, Lea Michelle, Sherie Rene Scott, Jonathan Groff, Laura Bell Bundy; and many more dropped out: Laura Osnes, Sutton Foster, Aaron Tveit, Eden Espinosa, Stephanie Block, Andy Karl, etc.

I do think, however, the percentage of MT BFA’s is increasing fairly rapidly on Broadway.

The UK schools run a different curriculum for their undergrad students than for the one semester abroad.

For the undergraduates, LAMDA (and other UK schools) indeed include MT preparation. This includes: singing lessons, singing opportunities, MT shows once a year, dance, movement. For dance, the focus is more on balance and using the body for character as opposed to intensive dance. No tap or ballet. But they do do ballroom dancing (!), and they are very serious about stage combat, which is a form of dance.

@connections- of course a study abroad curriculum has variations from the “traditional” curriculum. Perhaps it would have been better if I had said that in the classes my D has observed, as well as participated in at RADA, movement, particularly in combat as you mention, has been given a greater emphasis than voice. She has done some singing there- but it wasn’t as focused or regular as training would be in an MT program. It wasn’t even as much as she does in her acting studio at NYU. But then, she was there to study shakespeare, not MT. She does, however, now know some lovely madrigals, and dances a heck of a gaillard.

I didn’t think RADA’s curriculum was substantively different from LAMDA’s, but maybe it is. My S has taken rigorous private singing lessons his whole time at LAMDA. It’s included in his studies. He’d had training before going to LAMDA and says LAMDA’s vocal training is excellent. Also, they do MT at LAMDA. although not as much as an MT BFA in the US; they do one full show a year.

For the Juilliard grads, some have majored in drama and some vocal performance. My son is a 4th year VP major and has had required acting class all 4 years and “movement for singers” for 2, maybe 3 years (can’t remember). Just paid my last semester at Juilliard - WHOO HOO! Now just 3 years more at MSM for my MT major daughter!

Thanks. For your daughter, that’s a new MT program right? How is it going so far? I know they’re different programs, but are there any comparisons that can be made between Juilliard and MSM for students interested in MT?

I believe someone said above that some Juilliard students interested in MT did not like it there, but they place a lot in shows anyway…

Hi @Twelfthman! Yes the MP program at MSM is new and it’s going very well - D loves the program and her teachers. Luis Perez is wonderful and has a fantastic background - all the kids seem to adore him. MSM was actually our son’s first choice for his sister (after she refused to apply at J lol).

There are very big differences in the VP program at Juilliard and the MT program at MSM. The voice training at Juilliard is classical style and repertoire, and Ds is in the MT style and repertoire. D will end up with a LOT more acting, both straight, musical theatre acting, and acting for the camera. S has had acting for singers all 4 years and has had to perform straight monologues but more geared to acting the song. D will have dance all 4 years and in all genres, S had “movement for singers” - which was dance but basic ballet/jazz stuff, not tap or advanced. She also has classes in stage makeup, script analysis, theatre tech, etc, that my S does not They are both getting BM degrees, but D has said that her BM at MSM is really closer to a BFA in terms of the training. S’s degree is much more heavily focused on music - ear training all 4 years, diction classes in several languages, Italian repertoire classes, German rep, French rep, much more music theory, music history, etc. D also has diction in the form of speech classes but it’s all English, no Italian, German, etc like at Juilliard. He had to take Italian language classes in addition to Italian diction classes. Both programs have a few required Humanities classes involving lots of reading and essay writing, but no math or science. Grads of the Juilliard VP program can be obviously be successful in the MT world if they chose that path (and one of S’s classmates came into the program with that as one of her goals) but any MT-minded student considering the VP program should have a good understanding that they will be prepped for opera, not MT, and won’t be in MT productions - they’ll be singing classical recitals and opera scenes. As far as the Drama degree at Juilliard, I understand they have some voice and movement classes as well, but mostly straight acting. Of course, several grads in drama have starred in musicals on Broadway too.

Their local voice teacher and my son wanted D to apply to the VP program at Juilliard but she had zero interest in singing a lot of classical, and wanted the heavier training in acting and dance. Son on the other hand had nearly no interest in MT, except I’m pretty sure he wouldn’t turn down the role of Jean Valjean if it was ever offered LOL.