<It’s definitely happening in liberal high schools like the one my son goes to. Perhaps the most expensive and selective colleges are also quite liberal in spirit, eh?
That’s a good thing IMO. >
IMHO, it is a waste of time and resources. These money could have been used to support tuition for needy students. IMHO.
<not sure="" i="" understand="" the="" columbia="" chinese="" class="" offense="" above,="" but="" isn’t="" point="" of="" taking="" a="" language="" to="" also="" learn="" culture="" customs="" countries="" in="" which="" it="" is="" spoken,="" so="" you="" can="" fit="" and="" conduct="" business="" etc="" without="" offending="" others?="">
This incident has nothing to do with the Chinese culture. Some woman-female student (I don’t know the right term to use) got offended because she (is it the right pronoun?) thought that the statement is sexist.
<lots of="" people="" wanted="" want="" to="" believe="" the="" earth="" was="" is="" flat="" too.="" but="" it="" isn’t.="" educate="" yourself.="" that="" whole="" point="" college.="">
How do you educate yourself about using 30 different pronouns? It would be easier to simplify English grammar and get rid of all pronouns.
PS. @californiaaa I can ASSURE you that pronouns are very important to transgender and gender non conforming high school kids too!! This is not some vast conspiracy led by expensive colleges or colligate faculty… this is very real to many LGBT youth and adults…
You may be seeing more of it in college bc college is a time when many feel comfortable “coming out” to friends family educators others etc… As we educate others about sexual orientation and gender identity, kids will be open sooner and many high schools are seeing that effect …
here is something put out by GLSEN The Gay Straight Education Network a national organization that works for lgbt k-12 youth in schools http://www.glsen.org/GSA/making-your-club-inclusive-transgender-and-gnc-students
(if you work w hs youth you should be aware of this):
"Use Gender-Neutral Pronouns
Some transgender and gender nonconforming people may prefer what are traditionally thought of as female or male pronouns, like “she” or “he”, but others prefer gender-neutral pronouns. Respecting people’s preferred gender pronouns is an important way to be supportive of everyone’s identity.
“Zie” (pronounced “z”) is subjective and is used instead of “she” or “he.”
“Hir” (pronounced “here”) is both objective and possessive and is used instead of “him,” “his,” “her,” and “hers.”
“They,” “them,” and “their” are also gender-neutral and can be used as singular gender-neutral pronouns.
Using “it” to refer to people is offensive and dehumanizing, so make sure to stick with gender-neutral pronouns when appropriate!"
< It would be easier to simplify English grammar and get rid of all pronouns. >
BTW, as a foreigner, I vote for simplification of English grammar. Call everyone “it”, and be done with the issue.
<ps. @californiaaa="" i="" can="" assure="" you="" that="" pronouns="" are="" very="" important="" to="" transgender="" and="" gender="" non="" conforming="" high="" school="" kids="" too!!="" this="" is="" not="" some="" vast="" conspiracy="" led="" by="" expensive="" colleges="" or="" colligate="" faculty…="" real="" many="" lgbt="" youth="" adults…=""></ps.>
All 30 pronouns are important? It would be a discrimination against old people and English learners to re-write English grammar by integrating !30! new pronouns and all grammatically correct variations of them.
Call everyone “it”. Problem solved.
It might be simpler to get rid of all pronouns than to add 30 but it wouldn’t necessarily be easier. To insert the correct proper noun in the place of all pronouns would make the language extremely tedious and repetitive. And the use of the one all-inclusive pronoun, “it,” isn’t really all-inclusive either, since in English human beings are never properly referred to as “it.” Only animals and inanimate objects can be “it.”
No pronouns:
Old King Cole was a merry old soul,
And a merry old soul was Cole;
Cole called for Cole’s pipe, and Cole called for Cole’s bowl,
And Cole called for Cole’s fiddlers three.
<“Zie” (pronounced “z”) is subjective and is used instead of “she” or “he.”
“Hir” (pronounced “here”) is both objective and possessive and is used instead of “him,” “his,” “her,” and “hers.”
“They,” “them,” and “their” are also gender-neutral and can be used as singular gender-neutral pronouns.>
You like it? Put it into the standard English grammar. Edit all books, standardize the language. But please, don’t expect foreigners to know the right pronoun, if it is outside of the standard English language. And don’t expect people to feel guilty if they are using the wrong pronoun. It has nothing to do with “sensitivity”. I am not planning to use Zie and Hir. Because 1) I am not sure that I pronounce them correctly 2) I have never seen these words in published literature 3) I don’t like jargon of any kind.
BTW, I don’t like "Zie” (pronounced “z”) and “Hir” (pronounced “here”) . Can’t you find something that is easier to pronounce? Something that doesn’t require additional training in pronunciation?
<to insert="" the="" correct="" proper="" noun="" in="" place="" of="" all="" pronouns="" would="" make="" language="" extremely="" tedious="" and="" repetitive.="" use="" one="" all-inclusive="" pronoun,="" “it,”="" isn’t="" really="" either,="" since="" english="" human="" beings="" are="" never="" properly="" referred="" to="" as="" “it.”="" only="" animals="" inanimate="" objects="" can="" be="">
God, please, simplify it somehow. Language could be repetitive. Non-poetic. But at least, it will be safe to use. Without the danger of being labeled “sexist” for using the wrong pronoun. Especially, if there are 30 of new pronouns!
Old King Cole was a merry old soul,
And a merry old soul was Cole;
Cole called for Cole’s pipe, and Cole called for Cole’s bowl,
And Cole called for Cole’s fiddlers three.
<“Hir” (pronounced “here”) .>
“Hir” (pronounced “here”) sounds like “Herr” in German. Herr is translated as “Mister”.
My Russian colleague says that in Russian “Hir” sounds like an obscene word used to describe male body part.
Is it possible to find more inclusive and less controversial word?
Can they come up with just one pronoun that is equivalent of “it” for live human beings?
As a representative of immigrant population who can hardly handle existing pronouns I demand the end of this lunacy. For example, can you imagine being a UMich graduate student TA who just came from China and having to deal with this nonsense?
<can they="" come="" up="" with="" just="" one="" pronoun="" that="" is="" equivalent="" of="" “it”="" for="" live="" human="" beings?="" as="" a="" representative="" immigrant="" population="" who="" can="" hardly="" handle="" existing="" pronouns="" i="" demand="" the="" end="" this="" lunacy.="" example,="" you="" imagine="" being="" umich="" graduate="" student="" ta="" came="" from="" china="" and="" having="" to="" deal="" nonsense?="">
+10000 !
If you wish to remain in the dark or uneducated with regards to pronoun use these days, then that is your choice.
The whole point of college is to become educated and FYI these issues are VERY relevant in law, courts, schools, neuroscience, medicine, psychology etc… these days. (whether you like it or agree or not)
It is your choice to remain ignorant and fed up with these issues, but don’t expect America’s universities to enable ignorance for their students.
@runswimyoga, it has nothing to do with being educated.
Most people are accommodating until people perceive that someone is either confused and/or self-centered. Pick a pronoun, or one of a few pronouns and be done with it. Don’t expect people to deal with 10 or more, or by default the pronoun will become “whatever”.
<If you wish to remain in the dark or uneducated with regards to pronoun use these days, then that is your choice.
[/QUOTE]
If you want to remain uneducated about the problems that foreigners have with the !30! pronouns then it is your choice. College is about being inclusive. You can’t alienate a substantial number of population (over 30% of faculty in many colleges, over 10% of students in most universities) put them at risk of being called “sexist” put them at risk of losing their employment, because a very minor group of people is totally inflexible. You can’t discriminate against one group of people to accommodate the other.
Once again, choose ONE pronoun, that is easy to pronounce, update English grammar, and be inclusive.
<don’t expect="" people="" to="" deal="" with="" 10="" or="" more,="" by="" default="" the="" pronoun="" will="" become="" “whatever”.=""></don’t>
Thanks! Exactly.
@runswimyoga - the problem is that languages are living things that grow and change on their own. It’s extremely difficult to change or do away with a word or usage by academic or governmental decree. The French have been failing at that for decades - dreaming of new Frenchy-sounding words to take the place of foreign (especially English) words that have crept into usage in France. But it almost never works.
I predict that Zie or Hir will not make any more headway toward general usage than “Womyn.” or "POSSLQ"did.
Be careful because the next issue is; you put me in a box. “Nerd”, “Jock”, “Stoner”. Create your own identity by your actions not words. The drama of social media is worst than Middle School. Some great people we lost the past couple weeks was remembered by their inner strength and great friendship. Get off your pity pot and create.