Pros and Cons of Public Flagship vs Private Colleges

Parents Forum
101

@Riversider , I don’t believe it’s a “harsh” reality that most CC poster are going to public schools. It’s just a fact of life. There are far, far more public schools in this country than private, and most people find it to be an unnecessary expense to spend the large amounts of money to send their kids to private schools for grades k-12. The public school becomes part of the whole house and home choosing project. I live in an area where people move for its public schools, and most of the private schools around here are not as good. The residents do not believe it’s s good use of their money to send them to the private schools.

Though the very top schools in name recognition may be some of the boarding schools for high school, most people want their kids home rather than sending them to one of those. It’s not the custom here to do so like it is for college. It’s s very tiny population who work at boarding school admissions and financial aid, like we do with college. In NYC, for some, it dies become an issue. I know people whose kids did not get into the preferred public high schools and did send their children to boarding school going through the same sort of process as you are now with your son. Some got free rides or substantial scholarships to these schools. It’s just not the usual rite of passage for most of us. But that has Changed drastically in terms of college.

There was a time not that long ago, within the half century that it was rare to go to some of these top colleges unless you were coming from the “name” private schools or your family was affiliated with them. I have a friend who said his class was one of the last at one of these schools to have a top college pretty much assigned to him. He knew up from that the school was recommending him to Dartmouth, and do to Dartmouth he went. It doesn’t work that way any more. These colleges have opened the doors to all, or should I say the floodgates, as we can see the torrents if applications now happening.

Many families practice a loose college admissions policy where they will pay for certain schools. “Beg, borrow and steal”, I used to joke , but now with the news of this wide spread admissions scandal, “cheat, bribe and lie” is more added to that litany to get their kids into the most selective schools in the country. It’s pretty clear that name brand colleges have become a highly sought after thing. The controls on the process are come down to selectively and money.

For those of us who are in the category of being able afford ( by measure of the financial aid parameters and the tenets of financial planning), but still feel the sting of the “affordable” of private colleges with room, board and travel, it becomes a balancing act of what we feel is worth paying.

If you have that flagship school in your state with a great reputation where your kid can get accepted, it’s become the measuring g stick of value. Michigan, UVA, UCs Berkeley and LA etc are all excellent school that may cost a third of the private schools. Is Vanderbilt at the $75k mark “worth” $25-30k of your state U? A lot of the same people will hedge in that one that will also down the money very quickly for HYP. But then bring down to the same price as State U, or maybe to the $50K level, and that’s a whole other story. Or if a light comes into your kids eyes at the thought of going there, and you just can’t bear not to buy this choice for him.

Oh, yes. I’ve danced this set many times over now, and know the moves well , and there is emotion involved.

102

It is what it is. Just like everything else in life everyone can’t afford everything. Elite colleges have ridiculously high COA and everyone doesn’t get enough freebies to make it work. Also spending money on education is a huge sacrifice not all parents are not able or inclined to make. They may have needs like mortgage and retirement and wants like lifestyle and luxury goods. Not everyone has same priorities.

103

I agree but given the number of times this type of discussion happens here (in what appears to be an endless variety of ways to have the same discussion) there are apparently a lot of people who care.

And to me clear (because I have been accused of asking to have these threads closed down by posting that they are pointless), I am not asking to have this thread (or any of the other countless versions of it ongoing now and to come in the future) closed. I actually find them entertaining. Seeing how many ways the same question can be asked in a different format is interesting.

If fad diets don’t work (and they don’t), why are billions of dollars spent on them? Not saying there isn’t value just that the fact that people pay for something doesn’t necessarily without more make it worth it.

104

I do not look at hers discussions as debated but as opportunities to air some opinions, thoughts, doubts and get feedback. The reason most of us adults are on this site is because the process, ritual of college admissions interests us. Most high school seniors who have college on agenda, apply to local and state schools. The big question is whether they can get into and afford State U and sleep away school if they are lucky. For many, it’s a matter of even being able to do college full time.

105

“Your narrative doesn’t fit here either.”

It’s not a narrative, riversider’s statements are factual, there are 15 million students in college, of which 500K are at top private colleges, any definition of top is not going to get more than that. Already you’re at 3%, and if you assume that 50% of the privates are above middle class, then it’s 1.5% are middle class or lower and if you assume another 20% are from lower income and get FA, that’s 1% of middle class families at the top private schools.

People can provide thousands of anecdotes on this thread, it’s not going to change that conclusion.

106

A lot of bias in this statement. Plenty of grains of salt to go around.

107

Tuition at our state flagship (Michigan) was cheaper than S2’s private HS. And nearly all of the families at the HS who were accepted at the top 20 privates ended up at Michigan (except for Wharton, Harvard and Stanford). Now that many are close to graduating they are going to those prestige schools for graduate and professional school. Most will pay nothing because their Ph.D. programs are fully funded. Those families saved about $180K compared to Michigan and were able to see their kids more frequently.

108

Hear, hear!!! I personally enjoy reading the experiences and viewpoints of others. I find it interesting to ponder regional differences. While there’s no need to become defensive, I understand when individuals want to explain their point of view on the matter.

So in that spirit I’ll share our very positive public university experience.

I have 2 kids. D17 and S19 graduated from UIUC Gies College of Business.

UIUC has approximately 33K undergraduates…49K total students. We chose to look at those numbers as a positive attribute. We saw lots of educational, personal and professional growth opportunities as well as a diverse student body. It was important to note that the College of Business represents just 10% of the university. There are ~3100 total business undergrads…~600 freshmen. A number which we felt comfortable with from a size/opportunity standpoint.

I mention the numbers because we valued the relatively small college within the large university. Of course there were very large classes. But there were also small classes of 15-30. We wanted our kids to be able to learn in both settings. The real world rarely gives you an ‘optimal environment’.

This is what we experienced 2 weeks ago at graduation. My husband and I attended 5 events.

  • There was the Chancellor’s Scholar ceremony for ~125 students and their parents.
  • Then there was the huge all-campus commencement held in the football stadium. It was followed by a Business family reception up in the skybox.
  • That night was the Technology and Management convocation for a group of ~50 students and their families.
  • The next day, we participated in an intimate (~12) tea ceremony that was hosted by the professor of my son’s non-western gen ed class. She invited graduating seniors of her class to participate in one last tea ceremony on campus. It was lovely and very personal.
  • And finally, there was the larger Gies convocation held in the basketball arena for all the business grads.

My husband kept commenting how great the weekend felt…appreciating the big and the small. On top of that we got to visit with our son’s friends and their parents, whom we’ve gotten to know, because of the proximity as an in-state school.

I have no idea about other state flagships, but the sheer number of graduating seniors who will be working in the Chicago area is a huge plus to us. And I would be remiss if I didn’t mention post-graduation outcomes. Both of my kids found employment in Chicago (yay!) doing something they’re interested in (DD at a Big 3 firm; DS at a global financial consulting firm) and will be compensated well. They’re excited for the future and will have a nice circle of friends around as they begin their careers. Frankly I can’t imagine a better outcome.

109

Skimmed through more posts. Different needs for different kids. Independent kids like mine thrived with the large U and its honors program, national top tier rankings in so many disciplines and many, many course offerings. Most private schools would give a lesser academic education, btw. The vaunted HYPMS schools have pros and cons- some do much worse than major flagship U’s in various fields. Plus their atmosphere and locations are not as good as other options in many cases.

Lectures are the same for 50 or 500 or more students as they are a passive experience. The large U may have a much better lecture than that of some small private school. Coddling, needing more attention versus being independent and thriving without hand holding- one can put a spin on the small school experience or embrace the vastly expanded opportunities, both academic and outside the classroom, at a top flagship. A good TA can be better than an average professor for discussions associated with those large lectures. btw- those professors did their time as TAs if they were at a top tier program in their field.

Networking- some public U’s, such as Wisconsin (the poster who mentioned Big Ten and UW was referring to U-Washington?) have huge networks all over the country and world. Some of the elite private schools mean most in their region. Even the top elites will not trump known area schools’ top performers, depending on the field.

The post above mine does point out how large schools also have many smaller divisions. And- don’t forget that most flagships are multitiered schools while privates only contain one, possibly two. Honors program (honors colleges too, these are NOT necessarily as good/better than programs) participants are in the same elite world as top tier private schools, and well above most private schools.

Remember that the Ivy League is a sports league, not all schools are the same academically. Likewise not all Big Ten schools are the same- especially with the extra schools now in that sports league. Also remember that the whole country does not value working in NYC or DC as desirable- there is plenty of top notch life outside the NE.

There’s my rant. Finally- a pro for one can be a con for another person.

110

This topic gets beaten to death. I honestly think you can summarize your choice in a couple of sentences. Think about what your goals are, think about costs and what you can afford. Determine if the additional cost ( if any) to attend a private college is worth it . Yes, schools keep records regarding graduates.
Be honest with yourself. Really really honest.

Are you attending for status(bad) or because you want to make more money every year for the rest of your career ( better/best) or some combination that makes the fit best ( excellent) and the cost can be borne without a lot of debt( tragic).

NO ONE knows what path is best. And often there are many paths to the same spot. Figure out which way makes sense to you. And don’t take on debt that will bury you and your dreams down the road.

111

“Determine if the additional cost ( if any) to attend a private college is worth it .”

“If any” is the key phrase here. State schools, especially flagships, aren’t always cheap. We’re in Colorado and our higher ed funding sucks, so CU and CSU at full price are $28-30k, and they don’t offer much merit aid for in-state students, and our EFC is higher than that, so there won’t be any need-based aid. I’ve run the NPCs at a bunch of schools (I know they aren’t fully accurate) and many privates and OOS flagships come in quite a bit lower than NPCs for CU and CSU.

112

In Georgia, state schools are popular, not only our flagships (UGA and GT) but all state schools as its hard to get a better deal out of state. With tuition or most of the tuition paid by Hope and Zell it makes common sense.

Child one has graduated from public university with a well paying job In range of what posters hope for if they attend a Top 20.

113

Yes, every kid is different, has different needs and wants - then you go on and completely bash everything about privates! It is amusing.
No, believe it or not, not every kid can get into the honors program at the big state universities.
Wanting smaller classes isn’t always seeking “coddling and hand holding”.
And every kid is different and my kid had zero interest in our state schools and I agreed. Wasn’t a prestige thing - was 100% a fit thing and where he felt he wanted to be for four years.
As far as networking, jobs, earnings etc - we all know kids from both types of schools who have thrived and failed.

114

State universities generally draw students mostly from in state, and those students usually remain in state after graduation. If that is appealing to one, that is an option.

115

My one son is quiet, slow to get involved in social settings, pretty much stayed with a set of friend through elementary and high school chose to go to a large OOS flagship. It did concern me. I really would have preferred smaller school, there were Catholic schools and LACs on his list that I felt were a better fit especially socially. Kids from our area, his school were actively going to those schools. Not a one that he knew was going to Big OOS U.

And, yes, that was an issue that first year. He did feel like everyone there seemed to know each other. An overstatement, of course, but no denying that a lot of those kids were well with 2 points of knowing each other and he was way out at 6. That, in spite of a couple of cousins who were at the school ( they lived in state for that school and were only once in a while together relatives). So, there was that.

116

Even expensive public flagships like CU offer a compelling option than the 70k private’s for families that are in the donut hole. And even full pay high ses.

117

Many of the major top publics draw nationally and have 25% or more from OOS. Michigan, UVa, Wisconsin have over 30%. Maybe we need a new term for them–Hybrid Publics which have many attributes of larger privates.

118

Purdue is only 52% Indiana residents at this point. 34% OOS and 14% international.

119

I agree, @privatebanker. A lot of kids in NY going to Penn State from NY area

120

@barrons good idea.

Top 30 Public Unis or any within top 100 blended of say the USNWR lists perhaps.
The schools that attract out of state and have super strong specific majors