Yes, more are attending from out of state, but generally at least 70% at almost all flagships ( except MI, and apparently Purdue) are in state, and the largest public high schools there will have big cohorts at the instate flagship. If that is what you are looking for, that may be a great option for you.
@cptofthehouse How is he doing at big OOS? Sounds a bit like my son.
Sure if you’re looking at 70k with no aid. But I’ve run the NPC on quite a few privates that start that high, and purely with merit aid, many end up similar to CU for my D21 (3.95 UW). CU and CSU would give her all of 3k in merit aid.
I know everyone here is aware, but I’ve heard from so many people off-line who insist their kids (many of whom have excellent stats) will have to go in-state because they can’t afford privates or OOS. So it’s a trigger for me when I see/hear comments about state schools always being cheaper.
Don’t be triggered. It’s not always anything. But for apples to apples. Your in state option is almost always cheaper than oos orivste or oos oubkic. For your solid student from the top end of the middle class ses and upper middle class families.
Yes oos Publics are not always cheaper. Most times not.
If you are a scholarship or merit level student. Of course the number and options change.
Most students who are accomplished but not receiving merit and with no finaid. In state works best. But many aren’t interested.
@1stTimeThruMom , I’m done! I had one that went to a OOS flagship school but not the last one. None of mine went to PSU though it was on several lists. I’d have preferred my big state u kids to have gone there but did not happen.
There is a social thing about going to a different state’s public schools in that you won’t see as many familiar faces or have acquaintances in common as the others have. That was the case for the one son. But he loved his school. It was his own pick.
@cptofthehouse Good for you for being done! Glad to hear your son liked the OOS school!
Roycroftmom, my now 28 year oldest son went to our state flagship. He and 9 of his frat brothers remained close after school (technology enabled). None of them, including him, still live in our state. Just an anecdote.
Well, I have read through all of these responses and have been thinking about what i could add. My s20 is a high stats kid and a strong 2 sport athlete who is breaking the record for researching potential schools. I have to give him credit. While we are all busy pushing him to visit schools to see if it ‘feels right,’ he’s reading the recent publications of all of the faculty members to see which schools have the kind of researchers he’d like to learn from. What the heck is THAT? His being all rational and all is really raining on my parade which was counting on his going to a school which will make me feel superior for at least one second to the obnoxious PTO moms at my high school.
But, seriously, there is a huge emotional component to this for me, despite my making a living as someone who is supposed to never factor emotion into any decision.
This is my last kid. Despite our benign neglect of his education, he really rocked this high school thing.
My older kids went straight to their desired state school and were thrilled to be there. So was my checkbook. But THIS guy is different. He has a lot of options. We don’t want to screw this up.
The fact is, for his intended major, our state flagship IS T20. He researched this thoroughly and gave us a slide presentation on exactly why this university is so highly ranked (just kidding about the slide presentation part). But, sigh, that is where ALL of the strong students go from our high school. Don’t you want to be different? Special? I don’t say this to him, but it is what I think.
The fact is that, I gotta be honest, I will be really disappointed if he ends up at our state flagship. I will have zero concern for his future. I will have zero concern about his happiness here. Same for his academic prep. He’s my youngest (and favorite child, but don’t tell my other kids). He is only applying to other colleges that are stronger than our flagship in a significant way (and there are not many in that category given his tough filters). If he ends up at our flagship it is because he was not accepted at the others. So while we did cartwheels for our older kids when those acceptances rolled in the door… this is a different ball game. I just want him to get what he wants. That is really all there is to it.
He has stated over and over that he is totally fine with the flagship. And I believe him. But I want more than fine for him. I may have a very different attitude if there were other kids after him, or if we couldn’t swing the insane COA of his other potential options. But neither are true. My brain says ‘push the flagship, dummy’ but my heart just can’t.
@cypresspat I get it. I really wanted a perfect match for S19 who is an excellent student. We are full pay and, while we weren’t dying to pay $72,000 per year, we have the savings for that. After a long process, lots of visits, tons of essays and interviews, hours of self study for the SAT, and a high school career that involved a pretty rigorous schedule of xc/track practice after school, back for dinner, and homework until midnight for all four years, S19 was indeed accepted to a perfect fit LAC without merit.
We are thrilled for him. Would he have been the kind of student who could have made the most of a state school? Sure. He self-advocates well and would have made the effort to develop relationships with his professors. We wanted him to have the experience he craved though and he will get to be on the XC team and be surrounded by kids from all over the US and the world who will challenge him in small classes across the board.
My trigger is when people say kids should just be a part of an honors program at a state school. I really, really wanted to find one that could be his safety but no honors program compared to the experience he was going to get at his college. Either the kids were mostly from one state, or the honors program still had big classes, or it accepted kids with way lower stats, or he still had to move out of campus housing after freshman or sophomore year. He couldn’t run at these big schools. The advising was never as comprehensive as it is at most LACs. Yes, we are paying a premium. But I think we are clear on why we are paying $25k more each year.
I love these stories. They are awesome.
And totally get it for the most part.
I just don’t understand why they would be a trigger of some sort. Most, if not all families statistically, cannot afford a 72k sticker price.
To be positive and supportive of these other schools is simply being kind.
The advice comes from a place of honesty and reflective of the emotion that Cypress beautifully describes. When that emotion, dislike of the PTO crowd and love of our child collide - really, really bad economic choices are made. Look at the debt stats. It’s staggering.
So a lot of us, many who do and can pay full freight support or act as flag bearers for flagship honors etc. it’s both kind and honest.
To me, most threads when the parent or student mentions finances are not an issue - I can’t recall many times as a whole that people pushed the cheaper vs more prestigious option. Unless it’s gatech uc mich or uva types and a specific program.
@privatebanker But those of us who choose to spend the money do sometimes get the business for making our choices. I hear a lot of posters say that undergrad is never worth full price privates. Yet, for the record, 50% of families are full pay at most of the elite LACs and private universities.The OP was just asking what makes elite privates worth more than a public and I was trying to explain why our family decided it was worth it.
Oh. That isn’t fair. Sorry that happened. Perhaps it’s just someone feeling bad that didn’t have the chance to choose. But still not nice or even realistic.
FWIW I made the same choice as you and don’t care what others think. Money well spent for us but certainly value top flagships and my daughter better too!
I went to one and it is the reason we can pay for her. Lol.
My D just graduated from a highly ranked public university as an OOS student. We could not afford to spend $70,000+ a year…finances were part of the decision making process.
Most of the kids did come from instate, yet my D still had many, many friends from all over the country and she learned that the state was huge…with a lot of diversity even among instate kids. She also made friends from all over the world…and keeps in touch with them.
She wanted to escape her wealthy, homogeneous HS, and she did. She learned a lot about what life is like outside of the little bubble she grew up in. Economic diversity was important to her…and still is. Some of her best friends went without electricity for months at a time, yet still managed to be part of Phi Beta Kappa in college.
Some of her classes were small, while others were large. The other day she commented to me that she was never “lectured at” during her intro lecture hall classes. She explained to me how her professors organized the classes so as to make them interactive and discussion based.
Did some kid have lower stats? I assume yes…although it didn’t matter and it never came up for discussion. A kid entering with a 35 on the ACT can still learn a lot from somebody else who may have gotten a 30. …and by the way…that 30 sometimes came without a heck of a lot of studying and preparation …because that kid was too busy babysitting his younger siblings and making dinner. And by the way…sometimes the house was too dark to read. My kid learned a lot about life outside her bubble…
My D got the experience she craved. She made lifelong friends from all over the country/world. She met brilliant people, each one with a story to tell. She watched her peers present at the UN. She watched her friends get into medical schools and PhD programs. She decided on a career path and learned exactly where her spark is. She got to know her professors…really, really well. She introduced them to us at graduation. She had wonderful opportunities…still does.
She did get into some really, really good private schools with enough merit to bring the cost down. It was not an easy decision to make…there were many nights of crying. At the end of the day she made the right decision…for her.
I do think that small private schools probably come with some advantages ( depending on the school). More personalized advising, fewer large classes, etc.
My daughter would choose her school again in a heartbeat.
There’s no way we can all agree on how much a college education is worth, or how much more an education at college A is worth than at college B. Some people obviously think an education at some colleges are worth millions, but most of us don’t. Either we don’t have the means, or we aren’t rich enough, or we’re savvy enough financially. Whatever the case may be, we put a value, our own value, on an education at some college, based on our own circumstances. Some of us have more leeway in valuing the education; some of us have less. And we don’t have to justify it to anyone else.
Its actually quite easy to determine which to go to. I had two go to the state flagship and one go to a top private, its where each of them wanted to go. They went to the university that fit them best.
There is no right answer here. There are a lot of variables…and there are many excellent private and public schools. It is up to the student to take advantage of what is offered and to find the right fit…whatever it is.
Another reason to not choose a public university is impacted majors. For undecided students, it’s impossible to choose a major before attending and then stick with it. I’ve heard that, for the UCs especially, it’s hard to change majors and still finish in four years. And sometimes one just flat out cannot switch. At many private universities and LACs, one doesn’t have to declare a major until end of sophomore year.
@homerdog Yes! I get it. I went to a snooty New England LAC and my husband, an open admissions SUNY. We both went to grad school at a giant ra-ra university. I have seen the paths of dozens of kids who passed through our state and know, for certain, that it is all about the person and not the degree in terms of career success. My concern is the four years he is in college.
I had a bad-luck childhood and the LAC I ended up at (thanks to a math teacher and a priest who both noticed I was floundering), and the people I met there became my family. My five roommates have had an enormous positive impact on my life. Would I have found a different set of awesome people at a huge flagship? Not sure. I didn’t really find my 5 roomies. They kind of found me and they, and their parents, kept an eye on me for a long time. There was just a sense of connectedness that was immediate there. Someone always had your back. I attribute that to the culture that the administration and faculty nurtured there, more so than its small size. Hence I am very partial to private’s for my S20. He would benefit from such a place. Even when I was dirt poor in my 20’s I always sent at least some $ to that school. Still do.
One of my roommates’ husband died very suddenly and unexpectedly a couple of years ago. By 2:00 that afternoon, all 5 of us were alerted to his passing. Her sister called one of us. Two of us were on an airplane by 5:00. The other three in their car. At the wake the next day, the moment she saw us she completely fell apart. She had no idea we would be there. But all she could say was ‘of course you are here.’ And she was right, of course we would be there.
Unfortunately there are almost zero smallish schools on is list because of his being all ‘I want the faculty to be studying X,Y and Z and be actively publishing in journals a,b and c.’ The one smallish school which makes the faculty-good-enough cut wait lists 99% of the kids in his HS and that, he thinks, is abhorrent because he thinks that discriminates against kids who are lower SES (he knows about yield control). They can’t visit the school or don’t have parents who are all over the college app strategy like his nutcase mother. Did I mention he is also Mr. Social Justice? He has been reading the school newspapers too to get a sense of the student body in that way (because we needed ANOTHER filter). He is really not all that political but he goes to a fully integrated high school and one of his two best friends is low SES and struggling with the college thing because he doesn’t have the support my son has. He is seeing the inequities of the college thing now.
So my filter is decidedly pro-private. I think that the honors program at our state flagship is stupid and so does he. There will be nothing small about that experience. My oldest proudly announced at graduation from there that he went to zero of his classes his entire senior year and no one noticed and he still got a 4.0. Ugh.
We have visited a few ginormous schools so far (almost all public). The guides always mention that they got MOST of the classes they wanted. And that they all found friends. And that if you pay attention to the courses you take you can graduate in four years. Wait…WHAT? Those are noteworthy things? I kinda assume that for $70k a year those things are assumed.
My kid doesn’t expect to continue either of his sports in college yet he could probably make any club team and some weaker D3 teams. But I favor a school with a strong intramural offering. He does too.
I want a school which selects on character. He is a kid who started all of his sports and his musical instrument when he was 7. He shunned every other EC because they would impact his sports and music. He wants a place where it is okay to have a passion about one or two non-academic things but not 17 other things. He wants to just ‘do his things’ but not wear them as a badge of honor. He is repelled by the kids in his HS who seem to flit from one thing to another just to beef up their college resume. He caught himself thinking that way a few weeks ago and was really mad at himself. I laughed but he didn’t.
He is observant of other people and really is an old, kind soul. I want him to spend those four years where that part of him can be nurtured and noticed. While we are proud of his academic and sports successes, we are more proud of who he is as a person. I am lucky professionally as I can adjust my salary at will (I can accept higher paying projects). So his going to a full pay school night simply mean I accept one series of projects over another. Doesn’t matter to me. What does matter to me is that he is somewhere where he is more than a GPA. That is what I got, and that is what I want for him. I want the expectation to be that some of the people he goes to school with will be there for him his entire life. My investigations have uncovered schools where that is not true. Their cultures do not support that, and the cultures are built by the administration and faculty. No one had my back as a kid; many have my back as an adult and that is because of where I went to college.
@homerdog I know how hard you worked to find the right school for your son, and I know how you struggled with the cost (it’s a lot of money). I would never look down upon you because you can send him to any school in the country. That’s horrible- everybody has a different situation. We worked just as hard to find schools and were able to spend what I consider to be a lot of money…but five years ago when she was applying to schools …we just could not swing $70,000+ a year (65,000+ back then) without stressing my husband out big time. My D will be off to grad school in the next few years…she still has money left in her 529. That makes all of us incredibly happy.
I think my “trigger” is the subtle (sometimes not so subtle) bashing of state schools. Some are great, others are not. Same goes for private schools. My daughter graduated at the very top of her HS class. She had no problem fitting in academically at her school. She also had no problem finding a peer group.
@homerdog I wish your son the best…I really do. He clearly picked the right school for him and I hope you fill us in on his experience. Best of luck!
@homerdog impacted majors…
I see the other side of this coin… what happens if you are at a small private that doesn’t offer the major you’ve discovered is the right one for you? You either cobble something together or transfer. Neither are ideal situations.
Just like every private is different - every public is different with regards to majors and colleges and when you get into that major.
And my kids’ school send 40-50 kids to our state flagship. My kid rarely sees them unless she really tries. So many kids won’t even consider a large public “because they want something different” or are “too smart for state U”…
I know a local kid who wants a specific science research and only applied small privates. He would have been better served (in his field) looking at large research universities and getting tied into research early. But he didn’t even look because he was too smart for them. Ironically, he didn’t get into his top 7 private choices. Oh yeah, full pay at $60k/year for a top75 school. State public? $30k/year for a top20 in that field. But “he was too smart”.
We don’t always make rational decisions.