PSA: Make sure there is at least one Safety that you LOVE on your list!!!

<p>One of the schools, which I thought was likely, which is our state flagship, got moved to a reach after I found out that last year they received 28,000 apps for 4,000 spots - that’s a 14% admit rate, which for UMD sounds crazy</p>

<p>???</p>

<p>That’s not a 14% admit rate. Do you really think that every accepted student enrolled? UMD accepted probably 3 TIMES as many students. </p>

<p>Even their early action admissions is not very difficult…</p>

<p>Number of early action applications received: 20,246
Number admitted under early action plan: 10,734</p>

<p>What percent of kids in this country have a state U within commuting distance? We don’t, and I know we’re in the minority, but I don’t know how unusual our situation is.</p>

<p>UMD has a 44% admission rate, per collegeboard’s website. If it isn’t a safety, how about UMBC? I have heard very good things about Baltimore County.</p>

<p>“Oh, I know that there are privates that give out scholarships for lowish stats. The issue is that those schools usually still cost more than commuting to the local state school or CC.”</p>

<p>Said another way . . the issue is NET cost:</p>

<p>Full Cost of Attendance (tuition, fees, books, room, board, indcidentals, travel, etc)</p>

<p>MINUS the following

  • need-based grants
  • institutional non-need-based grants (e.g., merit scholarships, athletic scholarships)
  • third party grants
  • work-study (this will be need-based)
  • student $ (yes, the kids need skin in the game)
  • subsidized loans (only if you have the extrat capacity to repay them after graduation)</p>

<p>Note that unsubsidized loans and private loans are not included . . . my view is that accepting subsidized loans is all one should do.</p>

<p>Mom2 is generally right about merit aid for private LACs . . . they can give a lot, but if the full COA starts at $50k that’s not very helpful.</p>

<p>Thsat’s why the family needs to think really hard about what NET it can afford . . . for the more well off that can start with a 2. Examples for us in that range included McGill (net $28k) and Oberlin (net $22k). Because some other LACs only provide need-based aid (no merit) Vassar and Wesleyan started with high 3s; since UVM and UMichigan offered little merit money and tend to have high OOS Full COAs, they were in the high 3s also.</p>

<p>mom2collegekids - yes if you have average kids and haven’t saved for college and aren’t going to be eligible for a full ride (either based on income or merit) your options are more limited. </p>

<p>kei-o-lei you should probably add travel expenses to the Full cost of attendance.</p>

<p>Note also that students without top stats and without huge amounts of money often don’t have the “I need to find the perfect fit” mentality when selecting a school. For them, a good or acceptable fit (in terms of availability of major, cost of attendance, etc.) is good enough for them, and the state university system often provides an acceptable fit for a large percentage of such students.</p>

<p>As far as commuting distance goes, the major metro areas in California all have local state universities, often more than one:</p>

<p>[UC</a> Campuses](<a href=“Welcome to ASSIST”>Welcome to ASSIST)
[CSU</a> Campuses](<a href=“Welcome to ASSIST”>Welcome to ASSIST)</p>

<p>Of course, the community colleges where one can do freshman and sophomore courses before transferring are even more numerous:</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.cccco.edu/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=1MLZTbFko6s%3D&tabid=830&mid=2528[/url]”>http://www.cccco.edu/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=1MLZTbFko6s%3D&tabid=830&mid=2528&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Maybe the question is “what percentage of kids in this country live within commuting distance of a major metropolitan area?”</p>

<p>About 79% of Americans lived in urban areas in 2000, according to <a href=“http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0029.pdf[/url]”>http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0029.pdf&lt;/a&gt; , which lists state by state percentages.</p>

<p>VT had the lowest percentage of population in urban areas, at 38.2%. DC had the highest at 100%, while CA and NJ had 94.4%.</p>

<p>Definition of “urban” is on page 3 of <a href=“http://www.census.gov/prod/2011pubs/12statab/pop.pdf[/url]”>http://www.census.gov/prod/2011pubs/12statab/pop.pdf&lt;/a&gt; , which the table in the other link is part of.</p>

<p>I am a fan of solid academic LACs way off of the beaten track for my kids who have not expressed clear post college career or school plans. My son went for one “reach” LAC, E.D. I and, though it was a realistic possibility and not a Hail Mary, he was rejected. He then went for a “match” LAC E.D. II and was admitted. After struggling with college level academic rigor his first semester at Whitman, he is now loving it. Because Whitman is out of the way (eastern Washington) and relatively obscure, many top students do not have it on their radar. Therefore, it has a relatively high admission rate of around 45% yet still attracts good students with middle 50% SAT ranges between 1240 and 1440 out of 1600 - which I believe is a class SAT range similar to Cal or UCLA.</p>

<p>Because of his targeted approach, he did not face a lot of rejection from reaches or end up at a safety that he might not have thrilled about attending, and his college search was over by February of his senior year. Keeping an even keel on what schools he could realistically get into kept the stress of college application season down substantially - though it certainly was not stress free.</p>

<p>My daughter is trying a similar approach. She has applied to a “match” LAC E.A. that we hope that she will be admitted to. Sewanee, on the Cumberland plateau in Tennessee, is her first choice, even over her “reaches,” and she definitely has her hopes up. Because Sewanee is out of the way and therefore not for every student, the college has a 65% admission rate. On paper, she would be in the top 25% of the class, she would add geographic diversity, and might contribute to their athletic program, so we are cautiously optimistic. </p>

<p>While quite different in some ways, Whitman and Sewanee appear to be equivalent colleges academically. Their main downsides are lack of diversity and cost, though the cost of Sewanee has become more reasonable in comparison to five years at at U.C. or CalPoly, which has happened to quite a few of families that we know. The obscure location of these colleges is not a downside to us since it has exposed us to parts of the Country we might not otherwise have seen. Moreover, it increases the odds of admission to these particular colleges for those who are interested by eliminating the less geographically adventurous. They apparently prepare students well for graduate or professional school.</p>

<p>My daughter will be completing regular applications to three university “reaches” with 20% to 35% admission rates by January 1, 2012. She would be happy to attend any of them if she got lucky, but she knows that her odds are not great and does not have her heart set on any of them. She did not visit them because we saved her visits for “match” schools. She will apply to a couple more LAC “matches / safeties” (with minimal supplement requirements) by February 1, 2012 that she could envision herself attending if disappointed by Sewanee, though will scrap those if she hears good news from Sewanee before that. </p>

<p>The bottom line is that my kids have striven to find good “match” schools that really interest them, even though they lack the prestige of more well-known universities. We have chosen not to fly too high in order to avoid crashing into the ocean (Ick! are not us, so to speak), and so far we have not been overly distraught by a “reach” that missed, or needed to rely on a “safety.” Getting realistic about the numbers, and having faith that one can be successful by doing well at an academically rigorous college outside of the “elite” schools, has made the process much less stressful. </p>

<p>Of course, if that faith is misplaced, . . . .</p>

<p>Just throwing this out there…</p>

<p>Last year when I was visiting schools with my son, I would listen to parents complain about not getting enough grant and scholarship money from financial aid from schools that off er no merit aid buy that accept outside merit aid.</p>

<p>In most cases, those parents admitted to incomes well above average, often with moms who did not work outside the home and who were not willing to, and lifestyles including several nice cars, upscale homes, private school tuition for younger children, overseas vacations, and even club memberships. I am not judging these parents. However, it of href to me that financial aid decisions are made based on need–need to provide adequate housing, food, transportation and medical care. It is not based on maintaining a family’s current standard or style of living. To do that would mean that federal aid and college endowments basically would be subsidizing lifestyle choices that no one truly needs to survive. This would put students who have no means to attend college in competition for resources with people who don’t want to scale back their lifestyles to pay for college.</p>

<p>Please keep this in mind when looking at financial aid. Most people don’t have excessive lifestyles and most of those who do have worked hard for that. But, when you’re asking for need based aid, understand that need is based on basic living expenses, not current actual living expenses that may seem basic and nonnegotiable to you. For example, if all the children are in private school and mom stays home, a financial aid calculation may not consider private school tuition as a necessary living expense, and the mother not holding a paying job may be considered an unwillingness to contribute. So, add up what you could contribute if the kids went to public school and mom had a job to get a better idea of how your case may be viewed.</p>

<p>Also, most financial aid offices will consider special factors such. as a parent having cancer, a child having special needs that require extra educational expenses etc. You mightand lose some provavystudents by sharing such things, but they can’t considered it if they don’t know it. But, be ready to document it.</p>

<p>I meant you might lose privacy by sharing special auditions. You can state that those factors are confidential.</p>

<p>Regarding safety schools, we know a guy who applied to all Ivy League and top national schools and got no acceptances despite excellent scores and grades and a great personality. He was just not a great fit. He wishes he had applied to some second tier schools where he likely would have gotten full rides. Instead he is going to a state school, living at home, and rushing through his curriculum to get to grad school sooner. My son applied both to schools at his ideal level and schools at one notch down. Though he was able to pick from among top schools, we had no idea until late March if he would get into any place. Also, we know a valedictorian who didn’t get into any top national schools even though lower ranked honor students did in het school. Its not all about scores and grades. In my opinion, she might have come across as too much of a pleaser, though that very trait helped her succeed in high school. Top colleges aren’t always looking for what your high school promoted. High schools sometimes want the top students to win awards in every possible activity to promote the school, but that keeps top students from developing areas of deep specialization that top colleges look for.</p>

<p>Actually, the admit rate would be higher than that. If the school ultimately wants a class size of 4,000, they are going to admit a lot more kids than just 4,000, because a lot of kids who are accepted won’t attend. (The “yield”. I think that UMD admitted 44% of the 26,000 applicants for fall 2010 – and that is a blend of in state and out of state – I don’t know if the in state applicants had higher acceptance rates</p>

<p>I have no doubt my son could get into UMD as a “regular” admission, he’s going in under a limited enrollment program - engineering - which is way more competitive than regular admissions. Their stats for 2009 were 4.2 gpa and 1375/1600 sats and it’s only gone up in the past few years. It looks like they enroll roughly 360 students per year, but it’s unclear how many apply out of that 26,000. 9% of the school is in engineering, they don’t say how many applied and how many were accepted then admitted.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>Yes, schools that admit by division or major can make it more difficult to determine (academic) reach/match/safety. A few schools are transparent about it (e.g. [SJSU</a> Admission](<a href=“http://info.sjsu.edu/web-dbgen/narr/admission/rec-1212.html]SJSU”>http://info.sjsu.edu/web-dbgen/narr/admission/rec-1212.html) ; <a href=“http://statfinder.ucop.edu%5B/url%5D”>http://statfinder.ucop.edu</a> can help somewhat for UCs, though it has not been updated since 2009 so its most recent data is getting stale), but most only list overall admissions stats which may not reflect the higher selectivity in some divisions or majors.</p>

<p>Not only that, but students who expect to take classes in the basic pre-med and engineering tracks (calc thru diffy-q for engineers, gen chem, CS, calc-based physics, bio and organic chem depending upon specialty) can expect heavy courseloads, rough curves, and sometimes very poor teaching. </p>

<p>Competition in these classes and in some of the majors can be much rougher than in the university overall, and quite a few students find that even without heavy-duty partying, they can be at risk of losing merit aid to a financial safety unless they change majors. </p>

<p>Others may find that their interests change, but that their safety does not have the classes to support their new interest past introductory levels, and that if they transfer they will lose merit aid. (Example: a student hoping to learn Chinese is in luck at Ole Miss, but might have to look far and wide to find advanced courses at a number of other state flagships accepting a comparable level of students.)</p>

<p>I would encourage every student hoping to major in a STEM field at any school, but especially at a safety if merit aid is necessary, to pick another major or two and make sure that the safety has good programs in that major as well, so that they do not end up being shoehorned into a less-desired major by default.</p>