^ And if you really need a degree from a school with national/international recognition for whatever reason, a master’s
program is generally cheaper (than 4 years full-pay at a private) and more straightforward to enter.
I think it IS possible to find a safety that you love. My daughter visited U of Iowa junior year, was accepted OOS with guaranteed merit August before senior year, and even went back for a special pre-med visit. She got into all 12 schools she applied to, including good LACs (Denison, St. Olaf) and Catholic universities and Big Tens, but her safety would have turned out to be her top choice if we hadn’t gone to USanDiego for accepted students’ weekend.
And we both still have a real affinity for the Hawkeyes, despite spurning them for sun and surf. Some safeties are very loveable! And it sure was nice to have that in D18’s pocket before senior year even started.
“I think it IS possible to find a safety that you love.”
My D16’s safety wasn’t really a safety but rather her number one school. She is a high GPA, high ACT kid who could have applied to and been accepted to many high tier schools but chose a school whose mid 50 percentiles were 22-26. It’s where she wanted to go because it had programs that she wanted that others either didn’t have or didn’t offer quite the same atmosphere, size, distance etc. She has thrived and wants to attend grad school there. Mom and I required that she apply to three match schools two of which were state flagships. She was accepted to all of the schools and each of the Honors colleges and they would have pretty close to the same cost. She wanted to only apply to that one school (it is a rolling admission school she was accepted to by October) but we insisted. She never wavered. So yes it is possible for some to find a safety they love.
We were recently at a dinner for the top kids and they were announcing where kids were going. I know most of the kids and have a good idea about family income for some. Also knowing what most likely kids got for merit I just sat there thinking about the debt these kids will be racking up.
I do know some people might have been able to save more or got money from a grandparent or rich uncle. Still being in tune with costs and merit had me thinking some of these people are crazy. Some of those kids will easily be walking out of undergrad with $40K+ in debt for some schools that have cheaper peers.
There were a few kids announced that they were still deciding between 2 schools. That is simple code for trying to figure out how to pay for the better one.
Can usually find two of the three requirements of a safety. Love, and reasonable chance of admission. Now for the tricky part. $$$.
“I think it IS possible to find a safety that you love.”
Not only is it possible to find a safety that you love, it is EASY if you take the prestige filter off. In reality, the MAJORITY of colleges out there are academic matches and safeties for any 3.0+ student… 2,500+ colleges in this country, but everyone wants to go to the same 250 selective ones. DD’s high school district’s college fair was chock full of safety and match schools (a couple hundred, I’d say). Only a handful of the schools represented were T50s (“reaches for everyone” type schools) and a handful more in the T100 (where acceptance rates can vary greatly by major). Those had long lines - and our well-regarded state flagship had the whole auditorium. DD walked up to a few of the tables with short or no lines, chatted with the reps (many of whom were happy to have someone to talk to), picked up all the brochures (along with insights about the colleges she wouldn’t have gotten without that direct contact) - and boom came home with two safeties that she is excited to tour, one of which is building a brand new building exclusively for her major. (Edited to say: both offered automatic merit aid for things like PLTW or PLTW+AP, AP Scholar, etc.)
Are they colleges her friends would recognize? Probably not (although it turns out an uncle attended one briefly before transferring out to “chase a skirt”). But DD has different interests than most of her friends and is “running her own race”.
Granted we are fortunate to have such a large college fair right in our district, but regional college fairs can be found everywhere if students search for them. Of course, college fairs aren’t the only way to find a safety/likely school either.
Okay, so that’s the love part covered. Move onto afford.
“Can usually find two of the three requirements of a safety. Love, and reasonable chance of admission. Now for the tricky part. $$$.”
One key component of this is for parents to know what they will contribute via savings, current earnings or what they are willing to borrow. What will be “safe” will vary a lot by family. Frankly, if one hasn’t answered this question then there are no safeties.
On affordability - my twins approached it separately. One was meticulous about using NPC for each school on his list to determine a comparative cost. The process eliminated some schools from the list based on cost. Although USC was his #1, he knew he might not be able to go due to affordability. It became moot when he was rejected.
We have friends who are dual income. They refuse to help their kids with college. I’m not sure if they realize their finances will determine the children’s need-based aid. So, they are forcing their kids to be full pay at any state school. To the kids’ credit, they are using the CC route to getting GE credits and then transferring to a state school for the final two years.
This past weekend, the 9th grade son of my SIL’s best friend was getting slammed with questions about whether he’d apply to Harvard. I had to pipe up and mention a) the infinitesimal acceptance rate and b) the $75-80k price tag likely by the time he graduates. What a load of pressure to drop on a bright 14 yo who’s just beginning to figure out his strengths and likes. Mentioned to the young man’s mom how much the in-state flagship (her alma mater) now costs and she blanched. I could tell they’ve not thought about college yet.
Parents can do a LOT to help avoid crushing disappointment. Starting the money discussion freshman year is a big one. Assume tuition increases at a rate higher than inflation. How will you pay for younger children? What is your risk tolerance for loans? What do you expect your S/D to cover? Have you run a NPC? Can you still contribute towards retirement while your child(ren) are in college? If you are divorced, know what schools will require the ex’s info/use it in determining EFC. Use worst case scenarios to figure out what your family can really afford.
I have received a lot of flak but also my greatest number of likes for posts on this very topic. I also subscribe to the “give the kid a break” philosophy.
IMHO show me a kid who is not PO’d when they don’t achieve a goal they are striving for and I will show you a kid that is unlikely to reach the top of any field.
You may disapprove when your star player to throws the bat when he strikes out, but you still want him angry enough to want to.
Everyone has been telling you your whole life that if you take hard classes and do well in them and do many ECs, you will get into a good college.
Parents think about how they and their classmates did and what colleges they got into (back when even top college were less selective.
So students think they deserve a slot in those top colleges, not realizing there are tens of thousands students like them competing for less spots.
Students forget that a ‘reward’ for that hard work is scholarships…usually at their State U. They don’t perceive Honors at the State U to be as selective…even thought it is and they will still be peers with the same caliber of student.
Ha, I regretted signing up for honors at UT - the other students were so bright, they ruined the curve in honors physics. Ack.
@lvvcsf
For some kids the reality is that their parents finances dictate that there are no true safeties.
I like the use of the term address that question.
It’s almost as if some kids have parents who chose not to be well off, frankly.
@PurpleTitan , that’s exactly what we did with kid #1 - sweetie, if you are not getting into your dream school, you are going to the highest bidder and smiling all the way to the bank. Same for kid#2, in fact she is thinking about ED next year to a school with a large automatic scholarship, just so they would know that she is serious (she is of the show me the money kind). However, I think the current situation can be improved greatly with one small change - stop asking the kids for “why us?” essays. Evaluate their achievements, intellectual curiosity, etc, but don’t force them to imagine themselves attending the school, and don’t make them to go all out professing their love. It’s unhealthy and unnecessary.
@CountingDown wrote " What a load of pressure to drop on a bright 14 yo who’s just beginning to figure out his strengths and likes."
DS2 is already getting this from his peers. Recently we visited UMD because we were driving by ,and when he casually mentioned that to his friends, they said “it’s a party school. You should be applying to a better place than that.” DS2 is interested in engineering - no way is it a non-selective place for engineering majors! When peers set up expectations like that, it’s hard for a kid to push back without sounding defensive. While my kid is bright and will probably have pretty good stats , I think he is in the “average excellent” category, and the reaches are not realistic. As for engineering , the state universities invest heavily in the program and are well regarded - people on CC know this, but not the general public.
While I can smile and nod to the unrealistic things people say, it’s much harder for a kid.
^ Unless you take him on tours of UMD engineering and honors and he gets to meet the people there.
@2more2go the problem is Colleges want to be highly ranked. To be highly ranked, they need many kids to apply, many not to get in, but a high percentae of those who get in, to enroll.
So they need those “why us” so they can pick the students who are more likely to come.
^ Or apply to the UK (and Canada) where unis don’t play those games because they aren’t incentivized to do so.
A bit OT, but the “selective” thing is such a gamed number now. I wish there were better ways to compare- amount of student debt 5 years after graduation, for example.