Questions re: suspension, college application, and financial aid

Parents Forum
1

<p>First, happy Thanksgiving, and thanks for reading! This'll be a bit long and I'm sorry about that. I have to explain the situation before getting to my questions.</p>

<p>My son is a HS sophomore in a large public high school; he is in a magnet program for high-achieving students that specializes in the sciences and technology/engineering. He was recently suspended for an indefinite period and a request was made for expulsion for having a teacher's expired network password, this info given to him by another student, and having tried the password. Of course it didn't work. Yes, that's the extent of what he did. He has never been in trouble before; this is his first offense. He was not interested in doing anything more than checking to see whether the password worked. </p>

<p>He is a special ed student and has an IEP, and that is what prevented the school from being able to proceed with the expulsion. He's back in school after having been out for nine days, but with restrictions which include no school computer use, ever, from now through his senior year and no ECs. (There are other restrictions, too.)</p>

<p>I'll spare you the details of what we've been through and are going through with all of this; suffice it to say that the school district is not following its own policies re: expulsions, suspensions, first offenses, this kind of offense, and so on.</p>

<p>We do not want him in this school next year. We have several options:</p>

<p>1.) Place him in a private high school</p>

<p>2.) Have him apply to an early college program for next year</p>

<p>3.) Homeschool him</p>

<p>4.) Have him attend classes at a local university</p>

<p>Of these options, 1 and 2 are the ones we are most interested in.</p>

<p>He is very interested in attending an early college program. He has found most of his magnet classes slow and was not liking high school very much even before the current problem. He has the grades and test scores to be admitted to the early college programs we've looked at.</p>

<p>If he goes to early college, he will likely go for one or two years and then transfer. Early college programs provide support and a peer group for their early entrants and I think he would need that. Once he has a year or two under his belt, he'll be closer to "regular" college age, and may want to transfer to take advantage of programs/majors/courses that are not available at colleges with early college programs. </p>

<p>That's the situation. Now to the questions...</p>

<p>1.) Applications for early college require at least two teacher recommendations and a recommendation from a guidance counselor. He could probably get a recommendation from a teacher he had last year; he <em>might</em> be able to get a recommendation from a teacher he has this year. The guidance counselor .... is probably a problem. </p>

<p>The question related to this is: how do we deal with this? Has anyone ever been able to get a waiver for a GC's recommendation? (Regardless of how she personally feels about the situation, she is likely to support the school's position because she does, after all, want to keep her job.)</p>

<p>2.) My son took the PSAT last year (9th grade) and scored significantly above the cut-off for NMSF. If he goes to early college next year, then last year would count as his "junior year" for NMSF consideration. If he goes to a private high school for another year and then to early college, this year is his "junior year" for NMSF consideration (assuming this year's PSAT score warrants that consideration). </p>

<p>The question related to this is: What the heck do I do? Do I call the NM scholarship folks to say, "Hey, I don't know which his junior year is going to be and won't know until he's accepted/enrolled somewhere." We don't want him to pass up the opportunity to be a NMSF or NMF. And that brings me to the third question...</p>

<p>3.) Financial aid is going to be important. I doubt we'll qualify for much (or any) needs-based aid at a Profile school, so merit aid is important. I know that many schools don't necessarily provide much merit aid to transfer students. </p>

<p>The questions here are: should he pursue becoming a NMSF based on this or last year's scores? Would that be helpful for getting financial aid as a transfer student (assuming his early college grades are okay)?</p>

<p>I think that's it (or quite enough!) for now. Thank you!</p>

2

<p>Let me preface this by saying that I am not a parent, however I am a student that sounds not unlike your own son just a few years older. When i was in elementary school the Principal wanted to bump me up to 2-3 grades so that I was doing work that was more up to my abilities as a student. My parents however refused to allow the principal to do this because they felt it was important to let me grow as a person and mature before taking on the tougher challenges of higher levels of education. Their logic was that school was not necessarily necessary for me to flourish academically but it was a place where I could learn to deal with people who are different than myself. My case doesn't directly connect to your sons case however I see a lot of similarities. This is not a knock on your son in anyway but are you positive he is mature enough for college, I mean if he was peer pressured into using a teachers password what else could he be peer pressured into doing. I think maybe a few more years in a high school will teach him a few more life lessons and be a good thing in the long run. This being said I have no idea what type of person your son is so i could be totally offbase with this analysis. If this is so just ignore this post as the rantings of a crazy person on the internet. But in conclusion as a gifted student like your son I would discourage pushing him ahead of his own age group. Good luck.</p>

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<p>Suburbanite - This is all stuff your son should be dealing with, but OK. Let's start by ignoring anything that might be considered negative, which would include the disciplinary incident, the resulting suspension, the attempted expulsion, the computer prohibition, the ECs prohibition, the medical condition related to the IEP, the compromised GC recommendation, the low regard in which the current HS is held, and your family's limited financial capacity. What's left is a very bright tenth grader with some social challenges, and a desire to find the best educational environment for him.</p>

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<p>If your son has some issues so that he needs an IEP, you need to assess which colleges can work with him. There are colleges that have excellent support services for disabled students, and those where things are not so hot. It depends on where he needs the extra help and accomodations. Is he also going to be mature enough socially, emotionally, and behaviorally to go to college? Finding that match may be a challenge unless you have some nearby schools that are a good fit for him. I would be loath to put a younger student on a college campus if he has special needs unless I was felt comfortable with the support the school can provide him. Even then, I would prefer that he was nearby. Heck, I wish my kids were nearby. There are just times when they could use a bit of help from home.</p>

<p>My recommendation would be to homeschool him with some help with tutors and maybe a course or two at the community college. Make sure he does not get too many cc credits that he cannot be classified as a transfer student. Have him take the SATs and other tests, and if he does very well in them, start looking for those schools that would have good merit money for him, if financial aid does not look good for your family. You should run some preliminary numbers through some on line calculators to get some idea what kind of aid you might be able to get. If you qualify for aid, look for those schools that have the money to meet close to full need. Otherwise look for schools that have merit money. Look at momfromtexas's thread about full ride scholarships to see what you can get. You will have to integrate your son's special needs along with the availability of what 's out there in terms of money.</p>

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<p>Rabbuk, even if you are offbase with your analysis, that doesn't mean your post is the rantings of a crazy person! I appreciate your perspective; thank you.</p>

<p>An early college program is an attractive option precisely because he would be with same-age peers. Everyone in the program is the age of high school juniors/seniors; they are not typical college age. I certainly wouldn't want him going off to college next year to be in a dorm with 18-year-olds; THAT, I'd have problems with! But going to college with 16-year-olds, in a setting with the additional supports students that age can benefit from... that would be okay. </p>

<p>NewHope, my son is of course dealing with this stuff; he's the one who can't participate in two days of research in the computer lab when one of his AP classes is doing such research, for example, and he's the one who takes the standardized tests that could get him NMSF. Finding the best educational environment for him is indeed the desire; you're exactly right! But paying for that educational environment is his parents' concern, as it should be since he is a minor.</p>

<p>I'm looking for wisdom from others so that I can best advise him about his applications and references for his applications for early college programs, should we determine that that is the best educational environment for him, and whether NMSF/NMF is worth pursuing to boost his chance of getting financial aid as a transfer student. A great educational environment for him that we can't afford doesn't help him.</p>

<p>(He and I had talked about the possibility of his going into an early college program even before the recent incident; he doesn't like high school very much. There are too many people there who are just passing time and not interested in learning; it's a huge school. With the school's dictate that he can't use a school computer for the next two+ years -- this a violation of his IEP, by the way -- we have added incentive, indeed, imperative, to explore other educational options for him.)</p>

<p>cptofthehouse, we are most interested in the first two options I listed because that gives our son same-age peer interaction. Early college programs are for students his age and provide substantial support; we think that is a better option for him than any regular college, including community colleges. A private high school may also be a good option for him, and we are looking at various ones to see which might be a good fit for him. His standardized test scores are excellent, including PSAT and SAT. Early college programs do have some merit money available; I am more concerned about the financial aid aspect of being a transfer student.</p>

<p>We haven't ruled homeschooling out, but it is not nearly so attractive an option as an early college program or private high schools. Homeschooling in the area in which we live would be quite socially isolating, and though some teens would be okay with that, ours would do better with more socialization.</p>

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<p>The school seems to be taking an extreme stance. Are they out to lunch or do they believe your son needs serious discipline? I guess as a parent I'd want to stand back and make sure I really knew the answer before deciding what to do. </p>

<p>There are lots of private schools that can offer structure and discipline that might be desireable. Chances of the best being in your back yard are slim, so you may want to talk to an educational consultant that covers boarding schools.</p>

<p>If that's not appropriate I would look at private schools rather than rush college under the circumstances. Again, in most areas, getting into a decent private under the circumstances would be difficult. </p>

<p>There's probably no easy answer but I wouldn't want to see my child go to college without the full benefit of a full application process under good circumstances.</p>

7

<p>"The school seems to be taking an extreme stance."</p>

<p>This is the stance taken by every school district I have ever worked in. The intent of the student cannot be known, but having access to a teachers password allows grade changes on report cards, attendance records, etc. Imagine if a student got access and changed his D to an A and nobody caught it. That would be bad, but now imagine they had a vendetta of some sort against another student and they changed his/her A to a D and nobody caught it. Unfortunately there are kids who do this type of thing. Whether the OP's son was going to do something or not, the fact that he tried to access the system with what amounts to a stolen password really is a huge issue.
Having said said that, I feel badly for this boy and his parents. I have a son who is on the autistic spectrum and he would have jumped at the opportunity to "see if the password worked". It would not have occurred to him to use the password for any wrong-doing. But, if I wanted him a a mainstream setting, then he would be subject to the same rules and consequences as every other student. It certainly is a mess for this poor kid and his family.</p>

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<p>hmom, the school certainly took/is taking an extreme stance. As I mentioned, the school is not following its own policies nor district policies. They are not following the law, either. We're addressing the issues there, which are separate from my questions.</p>

<p>We were already considering early college before this situation arose, and like the ones we've visited and at which our son has interviewed (some more than others, of course). We'll be visiting private high schools, too; just haven't done so yet. He's not interested in staying in high school for another two years. One year is a possibility, but he is most interested in just bypassing his junior and senior year and going right off to college. How to manage NM is one of my questions, and whether NM is useful for getting merit aid as a transfer student.</p>

<p>hayze, I haven't found any public high school system which would expel for this as a first offense. (Our school system doesn't, either, if a school administration is following the published policies of the system.) </p>

<p>But though that's relevant to the situation, it's not relevant to the questions I have.</p>

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<p>"NewHope, my son is of course dealing with this stuff; he's the one who can't participate in two days of research in the computer lab when one of his AP classes is doing such research ...."</p>

<p>Actually, what I meant was your son is the one who should be dealing with the consequences of his actions and working toward a better future. </p>

<p>Off-topic but I'm curious, what home punishments did your son receive for this incident?</p>

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<p>The question is, how can your son get into a school of the quality his talents deserve under the circumstances? Certainly recs are a problem and I'm not sure I'd want to see the school's report. You can not get around these things, of course this will be reported to colleges. In your shoes I would be looking for a high school where he could finish and go out on a good note rather than sending him to where he could get in now. </p>

<p>This is a slippery slope when you're hoping for merit aid for a transfer which is as rare as hen's teeth.</p>

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<p>Suburbanite,
I can only offer anecdotal information but I know several students in our area who went to an early college program through one of our community colleges, Santa Barbara City College.<br>
All of the students were around 16/17. Many were bored with public school, some had issues like your sons. All were extremely successful in the program. They went on to attend various UCs as SBCC has a matriculation agreement with the UCs.
I would look around your area to see if something similar exists through a CC.
The private school idea could be problematic for two reasons. The first is that the private schools are going to be very pricey and you mention finances as a consideration.
The second is that the privates can go by their own rules. My kids both went through public schools but I have seen lots of posts of parents who feel their kids were unfairly treated/disciplined at privates including being expelled. When that happens you have paid a lot of money to the school and you have very little legal recourse as it is a private school. </p>

<p>Best of luck in this. I am sure it is difficult for your family.</p>

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<p>Another option would be a blend between homeschooling and early college. Create a homeschooling program to satisfy legal requirements and have him take two or three courses at a local university to get used to it.</p>

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<p>Happened to a local high school here. Stolen teachers' passwords lead to changed report cards and sneak peek at tests. The law even got involved. Very nasty...and we are talking honors kids.</p>

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<p>Can I just say that I think any punishment which involves being banned from computer use for nearly three years, is utterly absurd?</p>

<p>That's like banning a student from ever taking English classes because they brought a Playboy to school.</p>

<p>I can understand, say, a semester-long ban, or a requirement that use be in classroom settings only for a certain period of time, or restrictions that sites visited be class-related only.</p>

<p>But one cannot be an effective, educated student in modern society without knowing how to use computers, relevant software and the Internet properly. It is an absolute requirement - if you're not Web and computer-literate, you're not going to get a job in this day and age. An education that doesn't include technology is completely useless.</p>

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<p>"Make sure he does not get too many cc credits that he cannot be classified as a transfer student."</p>

<p>There's no such thing. Because you can't get a bachelor's degree from a community college, you can have essentially unlimited CC credits and be accepted anywhere. I have 104 community college units and had no difficulties.</p>

<p>Now, most colleges won't allow you to count all of those units toward a degree - there's usually a limit of 70-80, or "not more than half the units required for the major" - but one isn't going to get rejected for having taken too many community college classes.</p>

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<p>I wonder if the school is trying to force the student out in order to avoid the costs of the iep? Does your son's accomodations cost the school significant effort or resources?</p>

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<p>
[quote]
"Make sure he does not get too many cc credits that he cannot be classified as a transfer student."</p>

<p>

[/quote]
</p>

<p>
[quote]
There's no such thing. Because you can't get a bachelor's degree from a community college, you can have essentially unlimited CC credits and be accepted anywhere. I have 104 community college units and had no difficulties.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>FCYTravis99,
I think this comment was made in reference to student not getting so many credits that he loses his "freshman" status and will end up applying to college as a transfer student instead of a freshman applicant. I agree with this statement, especially if you are looking to obtain merit money which is few and far between for transfer students.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
I haven't found any public high school system which would expel for this as a first offense. (Our school system doesn't, either, if a school administration is following the published policies of the system.)

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Depending on the severity of the situation at hand there are a number of offenses, for which a student can be suspended and or expelled from school A "first time offender" with no prior disciplinary record. What your child has done/been accused of doing(using someone's login-password with out permission,) is indeed a "serious offense" and grounds for a year long suspension/expulsion especially considering the potential damage that could have been done had he been successful. However, usually if it is a superintendent suspension or expulsion there is usually some kind of hearing that the parent and the student must attend before this is done. </p>

<p>I was in school on wednesday going throught he rank list when we found that the #1 ranked student is on a superintendent's suspension until March 09 because of something the student did in school. Needless to say, this student is no longer Val.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Can I just say that I think any punishment which involves being banned from computer use for nearly three years, is utterly absurd?</p>

<p>That's like banning a student from ever taking English classes because they brought a Playboy to school.</p>

<p>I can understand, say, a semester-long ban, or a requirement that use be in classroom settings only for a certain period of time, or restrictions that sites visited be class-related only.</p>

<p>But one cannot be an effective, educated student in modern society without knowing how to use computers, relevant software and the Internet properly. It is an absolute requirement

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Agreed. This is a darn near unbelievable punishment and will make it impossible for him to do top notch work in upcoming honors and AP classes. Get him out of there. Early college program or home school program or private school or just a different public high school. Whatever it takes.</p>

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<p>I don't know what supports your son's IEP had in them...or accommodations, but private schools are not under any obligation to honor that IEP or anything contained in it. </p>

<p>We have many private schools in this area and one question on every application I've seen is "does your child currently receive special education services?" The private schools ask for this information...and if there is a special education program, they usually want to know what it entails. Most are not in the business of accepting students and not being able to meet the needs of those students.</p>