Questions to Dean J re: Scary letter from admissions

Colleges and Universities A-Z University of Virginia
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<p>My oldest D received one of those letters a few years ago. She knew she had not done as well as she should have and had dropped from an A to a C for 4th quarter spanish. She wrote a letter of explanation and mailed it the next day. We actually never saw it until a couple of weeks later when the response from the Dean came back. She felt that it was her responsibility to take care of the situation. </p>

<p>I have never been prouder when I read the letter she had written. It showed maturity and responsibility and apparently the dean saw the same things as we received a very nice letter back saying "thank you for your response, we look forward to having you in the class of 2007" And last May we enjoyed a beautiful graduation on the lawn.</p>

<p>Let your child grow from this and you will be amazed with the maturity they develop.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the words of support.</p>

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<p>Newbieva, wow, you came out of nowhere. Your words are wise. Thanks for sharing and your honesty. I'm really touched too and I'm just on the periphery.</p>

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<p>Well I don't find much need to post on the UVa site as our second child is headed off to William and Mary in the fall. He decided that as much as he loves the Hoos - W & M is a better fit.</p>

<p>I will definately miss visiting C-Ville...it is a beautiful place.</p>

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<p>yea i had a friend who... well his grades were never the best. he had a 3.2 gpa. however his parents are both upenn legacies and his brother goes there and they paid his tuition in full so guess who got in early over ppl with 2370 SATs. yup my friend. and who let his senior year grades drop to cs and ds. yup my friend. and whose brother needs an extra semester to graduate because he failed however many classes. yup friend's brother. so how these kids keep getting away with this when one d gets others in trouble, who knows... it is discerning and makes me upset.</p>

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<p>
[QUOTE]
We also heard from our guidance office today that the number of these "senioritis" letters is way up this year, so the trend is up.

[/QUOTE]
Several offers of admission are rescinded each year when final transcripts arrive with bad grades, but not before the students meet with us (usually the Dean and two others) to discuss the case. We don't enjoy these meetings.
[QUOTE]
The main problem is the timing of this

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The timing depends on when we get the final transcript. Amazingly, there are always a good number of students who show up for orientation no realizing that they can't register without being "cleared" (cleared = final transcript is on file).</p>

<p>The reaction to the arrival of these letters (bomb going off) is similar to our reaction when we see Cs or Ds on transcripts from students who had three and a half years of As and Bs when we got their transcipts in January.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Several offers of admission are rescinded each year when final transcripts arrive with bad grades

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</p>

<p>Not cool at all.</p>

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<p>
[QUOTE]
Not cool at all.

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Being "cool" isn't a factor, Cav.</p>

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<p>Your son or daughter should have been on the phone and at the keyboard the MOMENT he or she knew that there was a D on the report card. I cannot imagine not having a kid get on the phone and ask about it. I cannot imagine my kid not getting to the keyboard and writing out a letter of explanation the day he/she knew that the grade was a D. Surely there was some angst or gnashing of teeth the day the grade was posted. Being proactive about something like this would have been the absolute first thing I would have thought about. It seems to me that the timing was because your child ignored the D, and didn't think to start the wheels in motion to explain why. </p>

<p>I am curious. Did your child share with you the D the day they found out? Was there any waiting? Did the child know early and you found out when the report card came? If so, your child must have been uncomfortable about it. So dash out a letter of explanation. If anyone at any time was unhappy or uncomfortable about the D, wasn't there a thought that admissions mights also be?</p>

<p>Sorry, I just was surprised that a D on a report card didn't generate some thought on your part about calling admissions to discuss.</p>

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<p>You know what I was saying, Dean J.</p>

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<p>Sunnyflorida: Of couse we were not happy with the "D" but I still have to emphasize, that in our grading system the "D" that shows on the transcript in a class at this corresponds to a "2", or "C" rather than a "1". I wish they would change the transcipts to reflect that before sending them out, it would help everyone. Representatives of UVA have spoken in favor of weighted grading at their local school system (Albemearle County), so I assume they support this system. It allows the teachers to use more of the grading range, without penalizing the students for taking more challenging courses.<br>
When we did the total metrics, the final semester GPA was only about 0.35 below the overall GPA that UVA accepted with (remember, there are many other factors considered than GPA). So hopefully this particular case was not really a "bomb" to admissions, but maybe a loud firecracker. I'm not a statistical wizard, but this semester GPA is probably close to being within the standard deviation if you take all semesters into account, and was clearly the most difficult semester with many college level courses. Other than this one course, there was not a big difference. There are some courses that people take that they just don't excel at but might still want to take. And senior year should be a year for trying different things and taking on challenges (and maybe taking on a bit too much). Wouldn't it be a shame to not take challenging courses because of the chance of one final semester grade killing your admission to a great college? I think UVA looks for the degree of challenge as a major factor in admissions. Some courses also get notoriously harder as the semester progresses (Calculus is a prime example, and there are many AP's as well, with their own difficult tests to prepare for). It doesn't take a lot of mitigating factors, a bit of bad luck (like missing a higher semester grade by a point) and a tiny bit of senior distraction to make a not so bad situation look much worse. Hopefully this is what will be explained once the requested letter is written by my student and sent out.</p>

<p>For all these reasons, we really didn't think there would be a problem, and were therefore very surprised to get the letter from the Dean. Hopefully it will not have dire consequences, but will instead be a good lesson, as many have stated. But it truly has scared us.</p>

<p>Dean J: I can clearly see there would be a few cases in which thngs go way too far (like cutting classes, not studying anything, drugs, alcohol abuse, etc) where it becomes necessary to rescind admission, but I hope you would agree that cases like ours are better served with a "warning". The infraction to bring such a severe penalty (rescinding admission) should also be severe. Not because you don't have the right to hope for better performance, or might have another great candiate on the waiting list, but because the severity of the penalty at this point is so much more than just being denied admission to UVA - it is essentially being denied admission to any 4-year college other than some third rate private schools. I imagine you do all realize that, and I can see why it is one of your least enjoyable tasks when you do need to do this. Thanks again for your posts.</p>

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<p>No, worry wart, your wrong.</p>

<p>weighted grading is crap.
a D is a D. a D is not a C. I dont care how his school weights it.</p>

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<p>Fine, Ehiunno it's a D, but it's still a 2.0. And a C+ is still a 3.5. Do call it what you want, but when the GPA is calculated, it's a 2.0 and a 3.5. And a D in one school might be a C in another. In our school you need a 94 for an A. Where I grew up, a 90 was an A. And do you think a B in and honors class in a top suburban high school is the same as a B in a gneral level class in an inner city high school? Yes I wish we had more equitable education, but facts are facts.</p>

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<p>worrywart: every time I read a new post from you about this, I keep growing more and more upset. Nowhere have you said "My kid didn't do their work or the assigned materials, now has a D+, and should be wondering about their college future". Instead, you seem to blame everything else, from the weighting system to UVA to the transcript to the "rigors" and "distractions" of senior year. Hello...this is college your child is about to enter. If they get a D+, there's no going back, and while it may just be "one class", it's obviously a cause for concern. And there will be more distractions than ever once she leaves as well. And it's not like all of the sudden she had a D+. The teacher must have given some warning, and if not, it's her responsibility to keep up, regardless of what else is going on (I took 5 APs senior year, missing a full week of school, yet I still came out ok...plenty of people do). A drop of .4 in a GPA is a lot, and a D+ in a course, especially an honors course, is a big red flag. And, if she did so well the previous quarters, it's not like the class was so hard that she couldn't even get a C or a B, so it's obvious she just let it go completely. </p>

<p>This is a warning, and UVA is allowing her to explain herself. They haven't made any action yet, so it's pointless to say "oh no, she doesn't have a college to go to anymore!". But UVA let her in with good grades, and her acceptance was a big deal to UVA and a huge risk, and they tell you to keep up the grades. So, in return for their big move for her big grades, they're making a harsh statement for a harsh grade. I think it's totally fair. And, frankly, most students know that a D+ is a cause for concern, so this shouldn't be a huge surprise. </p>

<p>Point is, I don't think you realize that UVA holds all rights to determine who steps foot on their grounds, and they gave her an acceptance based on her grades continuing on an even/upward trend. They made her a promise, and she made them a promise to accept those terms, and now she's broken her end of the deal, so what is UVA supposed to do? They know it's a bad time to do this, but it was bad timing of your child to pull a D+. So maybe you should start looking at your child and why they got a D+ and make sure it won't happen again, instead of wondering why everyone is being so harsh and trying to point fingers.</p>

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<p>I understand, but no one should be making excuses because it 'looks like a C when its factored in.' Its a pet peeve of mine. a D in a class is a D in a class. If he got one, it meant one of a number of things: a. the class was too advanced for him (I doubt it), b. he made a couple mistakes and got behind (seems to be the case), or c. major family problem. What I am saying is that short of family emergency, a D is inexcusable, I don't care what the class is, or how it is weighted, and he should be called out for it. Should he have his admission revoked? I dont think so. Should he be called out for it? yes.</p>

<p>*DISCLAIMER: This is a rant, it is not directly directed at you Worry Wart, please understand that this subject is just a pet peeve of mine, and I am going to tell you my opinion about it. I am using your son as an example, and hopefully you'll get it</p>

<p>The thing is, your son is probably a bright kid. he shouldn't be taking a regular level class were its easy to get an A. He needs to be judged in his peer group, because he is competing in his peer group, among other kids that are advanced enough to take an honors course. Making excuses for weighted and unweighted GPAs is a waste. There is more discretion in weighting methods than % for different grades. I have never understood weighting except for class rank purposes (so kids taking easy classes and getting all A's dont get #1). It has no place in the comparison of students. Do people think the adcoms cant read the class titles? All it does is confuse people, and they think its 'okay' to get slightly lower grades because 'its really one grade higher.' Its not one grade higher. its still a bad grade, and he should own up to it, and not make excuses because its a hard class. he should be in hard classes. hes good enough.</p>

<p><em>edit</em> after shoebox's post, I geuss its yoru daughter. SORRY!!! <em>embarrassed</em></p>

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<p>Thank you Shoebox10 for posting what I have been thinking as I keep reading this thread. Many times parents try to "protect" their children while at the same time they are not allowing them the "space" they need to accept responsibility for their actions and learn from their mistakes.</p>

<p>Our experience with UVa was a very positive one (even with the scary letter) and we found everyone we dealt with very helpful. I don't think they are out to rescind anyones admission...they are just asking for an explanation. I think if your daughter looks inside herself she will find the words she needs to explain the situation. </p>

<p>Good luck to you and your family. Go Hoos!!!</p>

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<p>no, just no. I.... I cant believe you even think that... it would help no one. I cant even explain my frustration at that idea. You think the school should lie about grades because its a hard class? because thats what I am reading. YOUR KID GOT A D, QUIT MAKING EXCUSES AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.</p>

<p>im sorry if I sound harsh, and I did have compassion for you when I first read this, but it has become clear to me that you care more about teaching your kid to make excuses about his poor behavior than teaching him to own up to his own actions, which is something everyone needs to learn.</p>

<p>Have I gotten bad grades? Yep. I used to think I coudl get by without doing ANYTHING, so I played bass all day. I got a C in 10th grad in precal. But I didn't say "oh its okay cuz its really a B" I straightened up and realized I need to actually put some effort in. I made the decision not to do the homework, so it was my job to ensure that I kept on track. Did I slip up now and then? Yep, but every time, I realized it. I am not going to bring home aslew of B's and say "OHHHHH YEAAAAAHHHH I got ALL A's!!!" omg no, lol. seriously....</p>

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<p>Hahahaha I got a C+ in precalc too!! What a worthless class, but I pulled a 96% every quarter in AP Calc..booya!</p>

<p>Anyways, we all seem to share a theme: your D screwed up. Not UVA. Stop blaming such a good school for your D's mistake. Let her learn from this, accept it happened, and move on.</p>

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<p>I was mostly trying to explain why we were surprised at the letter.</p>

<p>Of course the D+ was a wakeup call! That had never happened before. You don't want to be one of my kids when they bring home a bad grade, so don't accuse me of "making excuses".
It was pretty much based on one bad test (is that an "excuse" or an explanation) and there isn't a darned thing we can do about it now but learn a lesson and try to move on. Shoebox, I know you did great in your senior year, but that doesn't mean everyone does. I also know kids who never studied and graduated with 5.0's with all AP classes - each person is different. </p>

<p>I never said UVA said she/he had no college to go to (yet). Just that the threat is there, and IMHO it is a bit dire (the implied threat, not the request for an explanation) based on the quantitative difference. </p>

<p>As a parent I have two responsibities here: 1. To make sure my kid gets the message (which already happened when the report card came in, without my saying a word) and 2. To do everything I can to support my kid while they are still under my guidance (which is about 2 more months). So if I am emphasizing "2" don't think I'm not also doing "1".</p>

<p>I'm getting tired of explaining myself. Either people agree or they don't. I want to go back to being on vacation, and next week we will deal with this and hopefully the dean will like the letter - and if not, we'll deal with that and support our kid, because that's our job. The letter is not mine to write and I won't be writing. I justed wanted some guidance, not to start a flame war, so I guess I should just shut up before I make matters worse.</p>

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<p>WorryWartMom, I hope you get this all resolved. Your daughter should have to explain the bad grade, and she should also be able to enroll at UVA next year.</p>