<p>Yeah, I don't think the Northern transplants are the driving force behind UGAs increasing quality. Instead, I'm going to point out the HOPE scholarship program, which provides free in-state tuition to any Georgia kid with a 3.0 high school GPA. This made college feasible for a HUGE number of Georgians. It also drove up demand for UGA because top kids who would have gone out of state (or to schools like Mercer, Emory, Vandy, etc) want to stay in-state and public for the free tuition. You can map UGAs increasing prestige to the implementation of the HOPE program.</p>
<p>"SEC" and "academics" in the same sentence! Who knew?</p>
<p>Although I'm no fan of the SUNY system, some of the schools are quite decent. SUNY Geneseo's students, for example, have higher SAT scores than U Florida's students.</p>
<p>Bclintonk, you beat me to it. I just the nonsense of tomslawsky's post. I am glad you pointed out how ridiculous it was. You saved me the time.</p>
<p>Penn State is a better school than anything in the SEC, save Vanderbilt.</p>
<p>I finally agree with rjkofnovi. The Big Ten is just much more of an academic conference, hence why Penn State is #5 in the Big Ten and would be #2 in the SEC.</p>
<p>As for Florida's ranking. Yes, it has risen admirably over the last decade and a half, but that is not the complete picture.That half billion dollars in research would put it in the bottom third in the Big Ten. Ohio State by comparison did 3/4 billion dollars last year, and that was only good enough for 4th in the conference. Florida's endowment would put it in the bottom half of the Big Ten. Ohio State's is approaching 2 1/2 billion, and Michigan's is over 4. It still lags severely behind almost every Big Ten university in department rankings as well as key faculty indicators such as National Academy members, Guggenheim Fellows and AAAS Fellows. Given Florida's decision to balance its budget in large part on the backs of its state universities on top of already weak funding, I don't see Florida being able to catch up any time soon. Again, for all that rabid alumni support, they've only built up a mediocre--by Big Ten standards--endowment base.</p>
<p>I commend Florida for breaking out of the traditional SEC mold of football first and mediocre academics, but let's be realistic. Florida's rise in the USN&WR rankings is largely the product of Florida's demographics--i.e. way too many applicants for far too few spots. While it has come a long way, it has a lot further to go before it could truly compete with most Big Ten schools as a comprehensive national research university.</p>
<p>"the nonsense of tomslawsky's post."</p>
<p>The main reason the post is silly is that the Northeast's public schools suffer brain drain to its legions of outstanding private schools. There's a centuries-old private school tradition in those states. That's not the case in the SEC states. UF really has no in-state competition at the elite level; UGA has some, but it can't compare to the in-state options available in MA, NY, etc.</p>
<p>^I saw the same thing. Thanks for saying it for me. </p>
<p>tomslawsky,
You forgot SUNY , which is more selective than UF/UGA (please don't post the scores for "admitted" students to argue). Are UF/UGA better than Rutgers? That's debatable. Now, I am not aware of any good privates in the state of Florida and that seems pathetic for a state that large.</p>
<p>I think many of the Big-10 schools are absolutely wonder research universities...I have the opportunity to recruit at many of them. But do not sell UF short on the research front...I think they actually out-rank all the Big-10, except for Michigan, if terms of patents awarded and technology transfer-to-market.</p>
<p>^^"SUNY"=SUNY, Geneseo</p>
<p>Vanderbilt
Florida
Georgia
Auburn
South Carolina
Alabama</p>
<p>Everyone else.</p>
<p>"Given Florida's decision to balance its budget in large part on the backs of its state universities on top of already weak funding, I don't see Florida being able to catch up any time soon."</p>
<p>UF only charges about 3k a year in tuition. The Governor is pushing thru legislation to raise tuition to the National Average in only a few years. When UF gets that added revenue it will be a heck of a boost to the overall rankings. In addition the latest capital campaign has raised over $800 million in just over 2 years. We are well on pace to pass the $1.5 billion objective.</p>
<p>I thought the point of this thread was to rank the schools of the SEC? Why have we gotten so sidetracked by Big 10/Ivy League/Patriot League comparisons?</p>
<p>Historically, the South hasn't had the tradition of higher education and therefore the infrastructures weren't in place. Slowly, some schools are starting to overcome that. I think UGA and UFL have made great strides toward being top notch schools. Do they have room to improve? Of course.</p>
<p>"Historically, the South hasn't had the tradition of higher education and therefore the infrastructures weren't in place. Slowly, some schools are starting to overcome that."</p>
<p>On this fact I disagree. Most of the SEC Universities were originally very similar to Sewanee: The University of the South. Kind of Liberal Arts like in approach. Slowly but surely they have successfully switched over to the German Model (ie: John Hopkins).</p>
<p>Here is Sewanee & Tulane's profile (who were original SEC member institutions)</p>
<p>Sewanee:</a> The University of the South - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</p>
<p>Tulane</a> University - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</p>
<p>Everything you posted is right. I'll take it one step further- obscure little Oglethorpe University in Atlanta built pre-Civil War to be the Princeton of the South. Post Civil War it never got back its footing. But I still think that the northeast had an earlier established tradition of higher education than the deep south with a few exceptions.</p>
<p>Where the northeast did such a great job was spreading early education faster. They had comprehensive school systems in place way before the South did. And the Civil War and Reconstruction also set back strides in Southern education. One reason Southern colleges and universities have lagged behind is because the kids that they draw from haven't been as well prepared as their northern counterparts.</p>
<p>
[quote]
UF only charges about 3k a year in tuition. The Governor is pushing thru legislation to raise tuition to the National Average in only a few years. When UF gets that added revenue it will be a heck of a boost to the overall rankings. In addition the latest capital campaign has raised over $800 million in just over 2 years. We are well on pace to pass the $1.5 billion objective.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Another thing going for UF is that its athletic program is financially self-sustaining. It also gives back quite a chunk of money to the university. An enviable position in these lean times and with all the national championships the spigot will likely stay open. </p>
<p>A lot of schools can learn from the Gators. </p>
<p>Fortunately, it looks like my alma mater's athletic program has taken those initial steps with a premier football seating section, called "endowment seating program"...a lifetime of best seats with all the creature comforts can be yours for a donation of $175k - $225k. ;)
Cal</a> Stadium</p>
<p>I'm a product of both SUNY Oswego (BS- cell biology) and U-Florida (MBA), as well as U-South Florida (MS- chemistry) so I have solid grounding here. I loved all three of the, but for different reasons. I also feel that Oswego was solid, academically. </p>
<p>As far as Penn State, the median SAT is 1195- admittedly respectable but significantly lower than GA and Florida. No one has addressed the fact that the North Eastern Schools charge more tax for less quality.</p>
<p>"But why so selective in your choice of northern states, tomslawsky? What about the fact that the state flagships of Michigan, Wisconsin, Illinois, and Pennsylvania ALL outrank Florida in the US News rankings?"</p>
<p>Point 1- I was addressing a comment on how UF and UGA can compete due to "northern" influence. I wasn't addressing someone who said that the schools were strong due to "mid western influence". Did you miss that or are you just a bad reader?</p>
<p>Point 2- UF (possibly UGA, too) is underrated by at least 10 schools in US NEWS, as the US NEWS crteria for college rankings is seriously flawed and wouldn't pass as a solid project from a stats 101 class. I mean, come on- you don't see this.</p>
<p>Any other attacks I can dismantle for you?</p>
<p>"Penn State had a 51.0% acceptance rate in 2007---slightly lower than Georgia's 54.3% and not too far behind Florida's 42.1%"</p>
<p>100*(50.1- 42.1)/42.1 = 19% more selective. If you want to call 19% "slightly", then I guess by YOUR definition, it fits. However, by the general interpretation of slightly, it doesn't cut th mustrd.</p>