Rank Your Top Undergraduate Schools

Applying to College
41

<p>For the record: </p>

<p>Like I said, they DO have research in many scientific fields and recently invested a huge sum of money into expanding the life sciences research departments. The caveat is that the professors don't care soley about their research like at many places. Berkelely has great research -- but is it a good undergraduate experience?Not in my opinion. </p>

<p>Funding problems do not define the quality of a school. Period. They also recently got a 100 million dollar donation to make their financial aid program one of the best in the ivy league, just fyi </p>

<p>Brown has extremely good programs in neuroscience, biological sciences, gender studies, fine arts, creative writing, political science, the list goes on. Do your research!! They also have an affiliation with RISD where you can take courses at the best art school in the country. Now that's what I call rescources. </p>

<p>Their open curriculum and "learning for the sake of learning" attitude is a huge strength for any person seeking a deep and broad undergraduate education. </p>

<p>The faculty is great; they have a nobel award winning neuroscientist teaching neuro 1 !!! </p>

<p>All profs are required to teach at least one undergraduate course. Each advisor has less than 10 students -- talk about being able to get the personal attention of a LAC with the rescources of a medium sized RESEARCH university. </p>

<p>Furthermore, Brown's medical school is ranked quite highly. It's just not very "well known" because its mostly reserved for PLME students (those admitted when they apply freshman year). Who CARES if they dont' have a law school?! </p>

<p>Also, princeton is notorious for focusing on undergrad more than grad like Brown. They don't have extensive grad programs like Harvard or Penn. But I certainly don't here you critiquing Pton. </p>

<p>And speaking of doing your research, Brown isn't ranked in the mid 20's, it's number 13. Holla.</p>

42

<p>"...and to think that brown was my top choice!!!!LOL"</p>

<p>I hope it still is. Don't listen to these people, who, frankly, don't know what they are talkign about.</p>

43

<p>^haha im done with applying.. brown didnt accept me ): ... headed to duke now.. happy either way (:</p>

44

<p>I'm not trying to say any of these schools is better than any other but this is just my list, in order of personal preference:</p>

<ol>
<li>MIT</li>
<li>Harvard</li>
<li>Olin</li>
<li>Caltech</li>
<li>Cornell</li>
<li>Carnegie Mellon</li>
<li>Rochester U</li>
<li>Case Western Reserve</li>
<li>Deep Springs (?)</li>
</ol>

<p>I can't imagine applying to ALL of these...and I don't know if I can count on Rochester and Case Western as fallbacks, although CWU does have a 70%+ acceptance rate.</p>

45

<p>Uvajoe, you said it yourself, and we all agree, Brown is basically a miscategorized LAC. So let's explore that:</p>

<p>
[quote]

  1. Brown lacks research.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>All LAC's lack extensive research</p>

<p>
[quote]

  1. Brown is not strong in any departments to my knowledge.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>And what departmental strengths do Williams, Amherst, or Swarthmore have? Or any othe LAC? Let's face it. No LAC's have strong departments, the way that departmental strength is traditionally measured. </p>

<p>
[quote]

  1. Brown resembles a LAC, which is not bad, but they also have nearly 6000 undergrads which is quite large for a LAC.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yeah, they're bigger than the usual LAC. On the other hand, I think we can all agree that Brown is far more LAC-ish than most of the other universities that are classified as 'research universities'.</p>

<p>
[quote]

  1. Brown has weak grad programs, without a law school.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>All LAC's have weak grad programs. No LAC's have a law school.</p>

<p>
[quote]

  1. Just try to answer this question: what makes brown a great institution? I draw blanks. </p>

<p>

[/quote]
</p>

<p>You can ask the same question about Williams, Amherst, or Swarthmore. Are they great institutions? If so, why? If not, then why are we pillorying Brown? </p>

<p>
[quote]

  1. All brown really is then is a LAC -THAT'S IT, but unlike dartmout etc. (to my knowledge) they aren't really that dedicated to being a LAC, they don't even have liberal arts requirements, and they have no strong programs to my knowledge.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>But again, I don't think Brown's programs are substantially weaker than the programs at the top LAC's. And the top-ranked LAC's vary in their liberal arts requirements. Some have a lot. Some have very few.</p>

<p>
[quote]
8. Also their Med school is ranked poorly.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>So what? All the other LAC's don't even have a med-school. Many research universities like Berkeley don't have a med-school. What does having or not having a med-school have to do with anything? </p>

<p>
[quote]

  1. You guys attack each of my attacks, and i agree that each problem i have stated with brown can be found in the nation's other top institutions. But Brown combines all of the Problems. No Law, weak medicine, no distinctive undergrad depts. -weak eng. bus. etc., resemble a LAC but would be a very large LAC -which isn't really a good thing -sakky- they would not be a top LAC -not without being strong in the humanities etc. and with 6000 undergrads(how many top LAC's have enrollement above 4000?), also they have the horrible funding issue(a few years ago they were need aware!).</p>

<p>

[/quote]
</p>

<p>The only one I can give you is that they have a funding problem and they're bigger than the average LAC. But I disagree that they are not strong in the humanities, compared to the LAC's. What evidence do you have that they are weaker in the humanities than the top LAC's are? So what we have here is a school that 'tweens' between a LAC and a research university, however, acts much more like a LAC than it does a research university, so I think it's fair to grade them like a LAC.</p>

46

<p>Claysoul,
your right i made i type-o i meant that they should be ranked mid 20's, btw i know all of browns rankings for the past 9 years! this year they were 13th. Btw the med school is not highly ranked at ALL, i believe it is 41, which is pretty low.</p>

<p>One last post on Brown:
Regardless of what you want to say Brown is not a LAC, why i say this is because they are considered a research university, and have a larger undergrad enrollment, and also they lack many of the aspects that make LAC's competitive with research institutions. But, they are very poor when you look at their research and grad depts. Neuroscience -if you say so, but that is just one MAJOR and a highly specialized one at that. Brown is an overhyped school just because of what ATHLETIC conference it is a part of. The do not offer good financial aid that is absurd to say that, just a few years ago candidates were given priority based on if they could pay for their education(need aware). They have major funding problems, lack research and grad depts., do not have any strong undergrad depts.(that i am aware of, except mabye neuroscience lol?), lack all of the strong defining characteristics of a LAC except for the fact that they are poor at being a research institution. However they are selective and are an ivy league, and i guess that gives them their reputation. I am no expert and this is just my OPINION, please don't be offended. If either one of you guys/girls are going to Brown just ignore me b/c i really don't want to be a negative guy, you should be very proud and excited because Brown is still a very prestigious school with high standards, and being accepted is no easy task. Sorry if i offended anyone.</p>

47

<p>I'm offended simply because your opinions are completely baseless and not rooted in fact. There is a ton of research at Brown! All accross the sciences. They have summer research internships for their undergraduates, the works. </p>

<p>It's not an LAC. If anything, its analagous to Princeton: an exceptional UNIVERSITY that focuses mainly on undergraduate education. A poll I read had Brown's med school in the 20's, btw. And regardless, the quality of a school's med school doesn't define the quality of the school by any means. Perhaps if you're premed and that's all you care about, then yeah. </p>

<p>They have funding problems, but only in comparision to their blue blood compadres in the ivy-league. And yes, they used to be need aware, but they are now completely need blind and making extra efforts to alleviate even more financial burden for the neediest of students. Furthermore, they don't require any freshman to do work study, instead giving them a stipend. But, again, endowment size does not reflect quality!!!! Why don't we measure p*nis size while we're at it. </p>

<p>They have a ton of strong undergraduate departments. LIke i mentioned before, their creative writing, neuro, bio, art, egyptology, psych, and poli sci programs are VERY good and ranked VERY highly (Gourman report). So before you go forming opinions, actually do some research. </p>

<p>And it's spelled typo</p>

48

<p>Look, I don't think Brown should be considered a research university. Brown is considered to be one because of the arbitrary USNews rule that basically says that if you have any PhD programs, then you are automatically considered a research university. </p>

<p>I'll put it to you this way. You say that Brown is not really a LAC. But I would turn that around and ask you, is Brown really a research university? I'm not talking about rankings. I'm talking about the character and culture of the school. Does Brown have the giant research labs and research programs that are comparable to that of places like Berkeley, Michigan or UCLA, with the armies of graduate students and postdocs? Are Brown professors consumed with obtaining research funding the way that profs at the traditional research universities are? I think we can agree that Brown doesn't have these characteristics. </p>

<p>The difference between a reserach university and a LAC should not be seen as binary either/or. It should be seen as a spectrum. Brown falls somewhere in the middle, and probably closer to the LAC's than to the research universities. </p>

<p>I would argue that Brown does indeed display many of the defining characteristics of the LAC's - particularly the strong emphasis on undergraduate education. At Brown, you don't witness the phenomenom of undergrads being treated as annoying afterthoughts the way they are at many research universities. For Brown profs, the emphasis is on undergraduate teaching, not so much on who can secure more research funds for the school.</p>

49

<p>me do research? O.K. obviously you havn't done any med school top 20 hmm.. well that is really great that you use some anonymous poll but according to USNWR they are a low 40th.</p>

<p>Since obviously your accusations that my accusations are baseless are themselves baseless, let me provide you with research you havn't done. The problem with posts like yours is that you make claims that are simply supported only by your own narrow perception.</p>

<h1>Disciplines in top 40</h1>

<ol>
<li>Stanford University 43</li>
<li>University of Michigan, Ann Arbor 41</li>
<li>Indiana University, Bloomington 39</li>
<li>Ohio State University 39</li>
<li>Pennsylvania State University 39</li>
<li>University of Minnesota, Twin Cities 39</li>
<li>University of Washington, Seattle 39</li>
<li>University of Wisconsin, Madison 39</li>
<li>Cornell University 37</li>
<li>University of California, Berkeley 37</li>
<li>University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign 37</li>
<li>University of Texas, Austin 37</li>
<li>University of California, Los Angeles 36</li>
<li>University of Pennsylvania 36</li>
<li>University of Southern California 36</li>
<li>Columbia University 34</li>
<li>Johns Hopkins University 34</li>
<li>University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill 34</li>
<li>Duke University 33</li>
<li>Emory University 33</li>
<li>Rutgers University, New Brunswick 33</li>
<li>University of Iowa 33</li>
<li>University of California, Santa Barbara 32</li>
<li>University of Virginia 32</li>
<li>University of Colorado, Boulder 31</li>
<li>University of Massachussetts, Amherst 31</li>
<li>Brown University 30
(these are just ranked, brown may have 30 but they probably aren't top ranked).</li>
</ol>

<p>Brown's med school is 40th(not top 20 claysoul)</p>

<p>I have no knowledge of any other grad depts. brown has that are ranked.</p>

<p>O.K. i honestly do not care about arguing my point any further, think what you want to. </p>

<p>I reely doont car howe i spel on colege confedintiol.(typo)</p>

<p>BTW: it really doesn't matter cause UVA is the BEsT!</p>

50

<p>question about brown's medical school...</p>

<p>is it a normal medical school where undergrads apply to, or is it a medical school only for students who have been admitted to that 8-year (?) medical track at brown?</p>

51

<p>ten! i barely have six. . .
1.yale/stanford
3.northwestern
4.rice
5.tufts
6.duke</p>

<p>and some others that i don't know about yet. . .</p>

52

<p>It used to be the latter, but now they accept premeds from other schools.</p>

53

<p>i thought #1 med school is harvard?</p>

54

<p>there's two sets of rankings -- one for general practice and one for research</p>

55

<p>"Brown's med school is 40th(not top 20 claysoul)"</p>

<p>According to what poll? There are several out there, and yes, Brown was ranked in the top 20</p>

56

<p>"(these are just ranked, brown may have 30 but they probably aren't top ranked)"</p>

<p>How on earth do you know that. Furthermore, there's a reason that there are a lot of large state schools on your list -- they offer more programs!!! That's an unfair comparison in assessing quality</p>

<p>And are those graduate or undergraduate rankings? It better be the latter because we're talking about UNDERGRADUATE quality</p>

57

<p>I know know if I would consider a lot of these you are saying as top "undergraduate". Graduate yes, but undergraduate, no.</p>

58

<p>Sighs? No 'Northwestern' for undergrad????? Oh well....</p>

59

<p>Brown's endowment per student is higher than Penn and Cornell (and Hopkins and Georgetown), and in 2000 it was 15th among "Private Reseach Universities". In 2004 it was 26th overall on a list of competitor institutions developed by Williams College, and 13th among universities they studied. Way below Harvard and Princeton, but the place is hardly on the verge of bankruptcy.</p>

<p>Among their top graduate programs are computer science and applied math.</p>

60

<p>1) Yale
2) Yale
3) Yale
4) Yale
5) Yale
6) UCLA
7) UCLA
8) UCLA
9) IU-Bloomington
10) IU-Bloomington</p>