Ranking American Universities By Strength of Professional Programs

College Search & Selection
21

<p>If I remember correctly, Berkeley does not have medical school, am I right?</p>

<p>Academic powerhouse, MIT, strong in business (3) and engineering (1) but without law and medical schools, is also left out</p>

22

<p>The majority of the universities listed here offer MPAs as well and they’re considered the 5th biggest USNWR professional program so I’ve tabulated the aggregate rankings with Public Affairs included. At this point, there’s a lot of schools that are missing 1 out of the 4 big professional programs so I’ve decided that each university gets a free pass on one of these programs but no more than that (so Chicago, Yale and Stanford stay in but Johns Hopkins and MIT do not).</p>

<p>[Best</a> Public Affairs Programs | Top Public Affairs Schools | US News Graduate Schools](<a href=“http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-public-affairs-schools/public-affairs-rankings]Best”>http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-public-affairs-schools/public-affairs-rankings)</p>

<ol>
<li>Stanford: 3.00 (doesn’t have one)</li>
<li>Harvard: 5.00 (#2 in Public Affairs)</li>
<li>UC Berkeley: 6.00 (ironically #6 in Public Affairs as well)</li>
<li>Chicago: 8.00 (#10 in Public Affairs)</li>
<li>Columbia: 10.60 (#14 in Public Affairs)</li>
<li>Michigan: 9.40 (#7 in Public Affairs)</li>
<li>Yale: 12.75 (doesn’t have one)</li>
<li>UT Austin: 13.25 (#14 in Public Affairs)</li>
<li>Duke: 13.80 (#10 in Public Affairs)</li>
<li>Northwestern: 14.00 (doesn’t have one)</li>
<li>UCLA: 14.20 (#14 in Public Affairs)</li>
<li>Penn: 14.60 (#41 in Public Affairs)</li>
</ol>

<p>There’s a massive dropoff at this point to Cornell and UVA so lets just stop this list right here.</p>

<p>It’s interesting to note that Penn and Cornell have awful Public Affairs programs that absolutely plummet them in this overall rating. You would think they would spend more time fixing their Public Affairs offerings rather than improving their world-class professional schools in other areas.</p>

<p>

Guess who’s back in the top 10? The Blue Devils! ;)</p>

23

<ol>
<li>Stanford: 3.00 (doesn’t have one)

<ol>
<li>Harvard: 5.00 (#2 in Public Affairs)</li>
<li>UC Berkeley: 6.00 (ironically #6 in Public Affairs as well)</li>
<li>Chicago: 8.00 (#10 in Public Affairs)</li>
<li>Michigan: 9.40 (#7 in Public Affairs)</li>
<li>Columbia: 10.60 (#14 in Public Affairs)</li>
</ol></li>
</ol>

<p>It appears to me that Michigan should be top 5 according to your numbers. Two public schools in the top 5. Not too shabby. I believe that Stanford, Harvard, and Michigan are the only two schools in the top 5 that offer all five professional areas. In reality, only Stanford and Michigan have no weaknesses in any of those five areas. Michigan is also very strong (top 5) in Dentistry and Pharmacy, two other professional areas. :-)</p>

24

<p>Michigan is also top 5 (actually top 2) in Social Work and rated very highly in other professional programs like Architecture, Music, and Natural Resources.</p>

25

<p>Well, Texas is 4th in pharmacy and 2nd in both education and architecture, but I don’t think that is really the sign of a good university. The fact that Texas has really good architecture, education, pharmacy, social work, and other obscure professional schools is cool, but I wouldn’t use that as a basis for saying it’s a super elite school.</p>

<p>In terms of professional schools, the only that should be included to determine the eliteness of a university are: business, law, engineering, medicine, public policy, and maybe journalism (if there were legitimate rankings for that). That’s why this is the best ranking of the top American schools based off professional school rankings:</p>

<p>1) Stanford
2) Harvard
3) UC Berkeley
4) Chicago
5) Michigan
6) Columbia
7) Yale
8) UT Austin
9) Duke
10) Northwestern
11) UCLA
12) Penn</p>

26

<p>

Well the two schools prepare separate financial statements instead of a consolidated one. Furthermore, Berkeley’s financial statments mentioned nothing about UCSF and UCSF doesn’t have the word “Berkeley” anywhere in its statements, not even once.</p>

<p>[Controller’s</a> Office - Financial Statements](<a href=“http://controller.ucsf.edu/fin_statements/]Controller’s”>http://controller.ucsf.edu/fin_statements/)
[Financial</a> Statements](<a href=“http://controller.berkeley.edu/FINRPTS/FinancialStatements.htm]Financial”>UC Berkeley Financial Reports (Unaudited) | Controller's Office)</p>

27

<p>100% of people who practice medicine and law must attend grad school, so I understand why they’re included in this little exercise. Furthermore, numerous people wind up going and getting their MBA, so I see why it’s included as well. What I don’t understand is why you’re bothering to include the others. I know TONS of practicing engineers, and very, very few of them hold advanced degrees. Although I’m a teacher and I actually do hold a masters in education, most of my colleagues simply hold a bachelors or a masters in their subject field, so I don’t really understand why education is being included. The same holds true with public policy and the others. FWIW, I think the OP’s initial attempt was the most accurate:</p>

<ol>
<li>Harvard: 1.67</li>
<li>Stanford: 3.00</li>
<li>Penn: 4.00</li>
<li>Yale: 5.33</li>
<li>Chicago: 7.33</li>
<li>Columbia: 7.67</li>
<li>Duke: 9.33</li>
<li>Michigan: 10.33</li>
<li>Northwestern: 12.00</li>
<li>WUSTL: 14.00</li>
<li>UCLA: 14.33</li>
<li>UVA: 14.67</li>
</ol>

28

<p>Y’all forgot the theological schools. They are one of the original group of learned professional schools (law, medicine, theology) and add to the prestige of universities that have them. Some universities have affiliations with theological schools, rater than having their own, and these affiliations add to prestige of both institutions. (In the list below, these affiliate arrangements are indicated with an asterisk.)</p>

<p>Graduate Theological Union/Berkeley*
Yale Divinity School
Chandler School of Theology, Emory
U Chicago Divinity School
Seabury-Western/Northwestern*
Garret-Evangelical/Northwestern*
Harvard Divinity School
Princeton Theological Seminary/Princeton*
Union Theological Seminary/Columbia*
Duke U Divinity School
Vanderbilt Divinity School</p>

29

<p>

</p>

<p>You’re entitled to your opinion, of course, but I’d just like to point out that the criteria you’re using to include some programs and to exclude others are perfectly inconsistent. You’d include law and medicine because “100% of people who practice” in those fields must acquire graduate degrees. I believe that statement also applies to dentistry, pharmacy and veterinary medicine, but it certainly doesn’t apply to business; far more people “practice” business without an MBA than with one, and many schools that offer the BBA at the undergrad level claim their BBA grads are qualified to do anything an MBA can do. Yet you’d include business on grounds that “numerous people wind up going and getting their MBA.” But my guess is the ratio of people “practicing” business to those holding an MBA is probably pretty similar to the ratio of “practicing” engineers to those holding a master’s or a Ph.D. in engineering; if anything, the ratio of advanced degrees to the entire population of practitioners is probably higher in engineering than in business. You seems to change the criteria to get the results you want.</p>

30

<p>Time to add BCS rankings.</p>

31

<p>

You can’t deny that Law, Medicine and Business have a greater impact on a school’s reputation than all the other professional programs you’ve listed. An MBA perhaps add the most to the national and especially global prestige of a university since it brings in candidates from all over the world and gives them the access to the most elite employment opportunites.</p>

<p>This explains why nearly every prominent American university outside of Princeton has an MBA program while nearly every prominent university outside of Michigan and Penn doesn’t have an undergraduate nursing program.</p>

<p>Also, you’re flat out wrong depending on the definition of “practicing” business that you use. If its investment banking, management consulting or general management, then yes an MBA is almost a prerequisite unless you went to Wharton undergrad. Individuals in Sales, Marketing, Advertising and Accounting perhaps don’t need to get an MBA but these are almost separate fields and are more related to Sociology and Psychology than Business/Economics. An MBA is a more important credential to have now than ever before.</p>

<p>Those BBA schools besides Wharton who advertise to their grads that they don’t need an MBA are flat out deceiving their graduates. Depending on what you end up doing, it would make all the difference in the world.</p>

<p>

That’s not the intention I gleaned from reading his post. Law, Business and Medicine are the most preeminent professional programs that add to a school’s brand.</p>

32

<p>When I was coming along, “professional school” meant Medical, Dental, Law, Veterinary, or Divinity School – in other words a school that required a post-undergraduate degree that was not merely a higher degree of something that you can get as an undergrad (i.e. Business), and a school that, while connected with a university, had its own separate building(s), faculty, and program. Now it seems that everyone wants to call his/her occupation a “profession” and claim professional school status.</p>

33

<p>If you’re going to make a ranking of the top 10-15 US universities and your methodology is professional school rankings, then I think that business, law, medicine and engineering are the most important, but I’d also include journalism and public policy. You’d leave out too many top schools that have top professional programs if you only include business, law and medicine IMO.</p>

34

<p>Okay, Sam, so they produce separate financial statements. There are still many ties between Berkeley and our medical campus across the Bay. Google Berkeley UCSF and educate yourself.</p>

35

<p>Oh come on UCB, Berkeley trying to claim UCSF and call it its own is like Harvard claiming ownership over MIT and claiming dominance in the realm of engineering just because undergrads at the schools can cross-register at the respective institutions. Why don’t you go ahead and claim Stanford as a part of Cal too while you’re at it…:rolleyes:</p>

36

<p>^Exactly what I am thinking. :D</p>

37

<p>UCSF was originally founded as Berkeley’s medical campus. Many professors have joint appointments at both campuses. There are many joint academic degrees between the two. Comparing it to Harvard’s and MIT’s affiliation is no comparison. There is no overlap in offerings between UCSF and Berkeley.</p>

38

<p>^Can you stop this nonsense? </p>

<p>Regardless how loosely you define “many”, most professors at Berkeley do not go to UCSF campus. The President of UC Berkeley doesn’t make any management decision for UCSF. UCSF employees are not on any reporting chain of anyone at UC Berkeley</p>

<p>“Originally”, Berkeley wasn’t even open to Asians. :rolleyes:
You don’t call your ex as “my wife”, do you?
There are joint Harvard-MIT programs too.</p>

39

<p>No, I will not stop this “nonsense”.</p>

<p>

Heh, well how many Berkeley econ, engineering, English, and geology profs head over to the medical campus? So what? </p>

<p>I’ll let UCSF be the judge of “many”:
[UCSF</a> School of Medicine - Anthropology, History and Social Medicine](<a href=“http://dahsm.medschool.ucsf.edu/]UCSF”>http://dahsm.medschool.ucsf.edu/)

</p>

<p>

Show me a joint degree. Harvard and MIT have many overlaps in academic programs. You can get an economics, engineering or business degree from either institution. UCSF only offers graduate degrees in medical related fields; no overlap with Berkeley.</p>

<p>Here are some joint degree programs at Berkeley/UCSF:
[Bioengineering</a> Graduate Group](<a href=“http://bioeng.berkeley.edu/gradhome.php]Bioengineering”>http://bioeng.berkeley.edu/gradhome.php)
[Welcome</a> to the Joint Medical Program | Joint Medical Program](<a href=“http://jmp.berkeley.edu/]Welcome”>http://jmp.berkeley.edu/)
[M.D./M.P.H</a>. with UCSF : School of Public Health Web Site](<a href=“http://sph.berkeley.edu/students/degrees/programs/md-ucsf.php]M.D./M.P.H”>http://sph.berkeley.edu/students/degrees/programs/md-ucsf.php)
[UCSF</a>, UC Berkeley Consider New Translational Medicine Degree Program | <a href=“http://www.ucsf.edu%5B/url%5D”>www.ucsf.edu](<a href=“http://www.ucsf.edu/news/2009/12/3130/ucsf-uc-berkeley-consider-joint-degree-program-translational-medicine]UCSF”>http://www.ucsf.edu/news/2009/12/3130/ucsf-uc-berkeley-consider-joint-degree-program-translational-medicine)</a></p>

<p>

Nonsense! They never got divorced. Married couples can still keep their finances separate.</p>

40

<p>^
<a href=“http://www.hms.harvard.edu/md_phd/[/url]”>http://www.hms.harvard.edu/md_phd/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>MIT Ph.D. and Harvard M.D should you so choose.</p>