<p>Would this type of ranking exist anywhere? I've been on some school website where they brag about the percentage of their undergrads who apply to law school and get in, but could I actually find a listing anywhere? I would really like to see it just to compare schools.</p>
<p>Thanks if anyone has any insight!</p>
<p>Probably not very useful, since the numbers fluctuate on a yearly basis,
but this should give you some general idea of undergraduate representation at a top law school.
Two lists were compiled by the_prestige. I combined them and cut it off at 20.</p>
<p>Harvard Law School Per Capita Numbers, Top 20 (2006):</p>
<p>Rank Name Ratio
1 Harvard University 6.80
2 Yale University 11.69
3 Stanford University 20.67
4 Amherst College 22.68
5 Princeton University 22.76
6 Swarthmore College 28.90
7 Brown University 29.98
8 Dartmouth College 30.69
9 Williams College 31.47
10 Columbia University 36.07
11 Rice University 40.11
12 Duke University 42.05
13 Pomona College 42.56
14 University of Pennsylvania 44.77
15 Georgetown University 48.47
16 Brandeis University 67.18
17 Cornell University 69.07
18 Massachusetts Inst. of Technology 71.14
19 University of California-Berkeley 85.44
20 Emory University 89.93</p>
<p>Parcel them out by family income (and legacy status) and you might get very, very different results,</p>
<p>The percentage you really want is: the number of students accepted to law school from a particular college, divided by a denominator of: (# of students from that college who actually applied to law school) + the "discouraged students" = number of students at that college who, though seemingly smart enough to eventually apply to law school when they entered the college, and would have wanted to, wound up doing too poorly there to even bother applying to law school). Unfortunately, this data is not available.</p>
<p>kwu,
This is a very interesting topic and I know I seem idiotic, but I don't understand your data. Please explain to me what the numbers represent. </p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
<p>According to the person who originally posted it:</p>
<p>"simple calculation of each school's class size (as per USNWR's entering freshman class size) divided by the number enrolled at HLS...</p>
<p>for example:</p>
<ul>
<li>Harvard's class size is: 1,640</li>
<li>No. of Harvard graduates enrolling into HLS: 241</li>
<li>Harvard's ratio: (1,640 / 241) = 6.80"</li>
</ul>
<p>Who cares?</p>
<p>KWU,
That's pretty much useless information. It tells you something about who goes to Harvard Law School---not surprisingly, top-heavy with Harvard undergrads and others from its region. It tells you nothing at all about who goes to Yale, Columbia, Stanford, NYU, Chicago, Michigan, Berkeley, Penn, Northwestern, or Virginia---the other 10 law schools ranked in the top 10 by US News (by virtue of a 3-way tie for #9). Especially for the publics in this group, you have to ask yourself why its top in-state undergrads---ranging from 2/3 of the class at Michigan and Virginia to 90+% at Berkeley---would elect to go to a costly private law school when they can get a comparable top 10 legal education at a fraction of the cost. Similarly for the law schools ranked 10 to 25.</p>
<p>Also, there's the "localism" thing. By the time students graduate from their undergrad institution they typically have networks of close friends and in many cases intimate relationships centered in their local community, and more broadly, in the region where they went to college. That makes it harder to relocate. So naturally, Harvard undergrads will gravitate toward Harvard Law School if they get in; Yale grads to Yale; Michigan grads to Michigan; Chicago grads to Chicago; Stanford grads to Stanford, and so on. If they don't get in, they're more likely to go someplace nearby rather than someplace far away. So it should be no surprise that 9 of Harvard Law School's top 10 feeders would be Northeastern schools. I'll bet Stanford, Berkeley, UCLA, Pomona, and probably one or more other Claremont colleges would make Stanford's top 10 feeder list. </p>
<p>In short, looking at Harvard Law School's top feeder list doesn't really tell you anything useful about where to go as an undergrad to maximize your chances of getting into a top law school in general. It may tell you something about your statistical chances of getting into Harvard Law School---but not any other top law school. But it probably doesn't erven tell you that. For all we know from these numbers, 40% of Harvard undergrads might aspire to Harvard Law School and only 14% of them get in (about 1/3 of thise who so aspire), whereas only 7% of Stanford undergrads aspire to Harvard Law School while 5% of them get in (more than 2/3 of those who so aspire). If that were the case, it would be hard to say that someone who aspires to Harvard Law School is better off going to Harvard.</p>
<p>Pretty interesting information with the Harvard data, but is there anything more general available out there?</p>
<p>Well, I have Yale's 2006 Undergraduate Enrollment Data, but bclintonk has damned it useless.</p>
<p>Nothing really more general out there that pertains very specifically to law.</p>
<p>"- Harvard's class size is: 1,640
- No. of Harvard graduates enrolling into HLS: 241
- Harvard's ratio: (1,640 / 241) = 6.80""</p>
<p>Whoa, that's not right. 241 is the number of Harvard undergrads at HLS TOTAL, including all three class years. 1640 is the number of Harvard undergrads in just one class year. The denominator in that ratio should be 80.3, not 241.</p>
<p>I guess it doesn't matter as long as you treated all the schools on the list the same way. Your data look strange to me, though...are you sure Duke is that low? 5 years ago, Duke had way more grads at HLS than Brown -- we're talking twice as many -- and they are roughly the same size.</p>
<p>"I'll bet Stanford, Berkeley, UCLA, Pomona, and probably one or more other Claremont colleges would make Stanford's top 10 feeder list."</p>
<p>No, they don't. Stanford Law is packed with Harvard and Yale grads, too. There's a locality effect (particularly in terms of undergrads staying at the same institution for law school), but it's much smaller than you describe. Rankings reign supreme when it comes to choice among the top 14 law schools. Geography plays a significant role only within the sub-rankings. That is, a student choosing between Columbia, Chicago, and NYU may choose based on geography. But if that student is admitted to any one of YHS, they are extremely likely to attend that one, no matter how much they like Chicago or New York.</p>
<p>
[quote]
I guess it doesn't matter as long as you treated all the schools on the list the same way. Your data look strange to me, though...are you sure Duke is that low? 5 years ago, Duke had way more grads at HLS than Brown -- we're talking twice as many -- and they are roughly the same size.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>First of all Duke's class size is not "roughly the same". Duke's average class size is > Brown's (I'll post the numbers later)</p>
<p>The original list which I compiled was directly from both Yale Law School and Harvard Law School's respective websites in their admissions section. I believe they no longer provide class information by undergrad anymore. After HYP, on a PER CAPITA BASIS, Brown and Dartmouth are generally the strongest represented schools at HLS and YLS. Now, that doesn't mean that Duke doesn't also have a strong representation -- they absolutely do -- but "way more" than Brown? Not on a PER CAPITA BASIS.</p>
<p>In the words of UConn's head coach "get some facts, and come back and see me."</p>
<p>Don't forget that the LSAT is a major factor in law school admissions (and some on cc say it can be more important than gpa depending on the law school). But, regardless, if LSAT is ~50% of admissions, and HYP has a buch of really, really strong test takers.....who do y'all think is most likely to ace the LSAT? The point being that the same kid could attend State flagship instead of H and still score highly on the LSAT.</p>
<p>OK, some facts:</p>
<p>According to Duke's website: Quick</a> Facts about Duke
Duke's Total Undergrad: 6,340</p>
<p>According to Brown's website: Brown</a> Admission: Facts & Figures
Brown's Total Undergrad: "approximately" 5,900</p>
<p>That is a difference of at least 440 students (519 students if you use Wikipedia's undergrad number for Brown of 5,821)</p>
<p>Here’s how Yale students who entered law school in 2007 fared on their applications to the top 14 law schools as judged by 2008 USN&WR ranking :
Law School/rank No. Applicants No. Accepted Percentage Accepted
Yale (1) 181 40 22%
Harvard (2) 216 65 30%
Stanford (2) 166 51 31%
Columbia (4) 229 94 41%
NYU (5) 200 96 48%
Berkeley (6) 154 57 37%
Chicago (7) 144 55 38%
Penn (7) 177 55 31%
Michigan (9) 125 61 49%
Virginia (9) 121 59 49%
Cornell (12) 117 53 45%
Duke (12) 117 53 45%
Georgetown (14) 203 101 50%</p>
<p>Here’s how Stanford grads did that year:</p>
<p>Yale (1) 103 20 19%
Harvard (2) 155 38 25%
Stanford (2) 163 42 31%
Columbia (4) 146 39 27%
NYU (5) 123 43 35%
Berkeley (6) 156 51 33%
Chicago (7) 88 23 26%
Penn (7) 85 16 19%
Michigan (9) 82 26 32%
Virginia (9) 66 27 41%
Cornell (12) 48 19 40%
Duke (12) 94 36 38%
Georgetown (14) 130 62 48%</p>
<p>Greybeard, that's great data -- can you post a link?</p>
<p>Thanks</p>
<p>kwu, how come Michigan isn't in your top 20 list for Harvard Law? I would be very surprised if Michigan's per capita representation at HLS were higher than 90.</p>
<p>Woah, those are impressive admission statistics into N14 Law schools. Then again, I wouldn't expect less from Stanford and Yale. Those are two of the top five universities in the US afterall. </p>
<p>Below are the University of Michigan's matriculation data into the N14 Law schools in 2008. Although the numbers are obviously not as impressive as Stanford's or Yale's, they are pretty good:</p>
<h1>1 YALE UNIVERSITY LAW SCHOOL</h1>
<p>Number applied: 33
Number admitted: 3
Acceptance rate: 9%
Number matriculated: 2
Yield rate: 67%</p>
<h1>2 HARVARD UNIVERSITY LAW SCHOOL</h1>
<p>Number applied: 106
Number admitted: 17
Acceptance rate: 16%
Number matriculated: 14
Yield rate: 82%</p>
<h1>2 STANFORD UNIVERSITY LAW SCHOOL</h1>
<p>Number applied: 54
Number admitted: 6
Acceptance rate: 11%
Number matriculated: 1
Yield rate: 17%</p>
<h1>4 COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY LAW SCHOOL</h1>
<p>Number applied: 129
Number admitted: 22
Acceptance rate: 17%
Number matriculated: 6
Yield rate: 27%</p>
<h1>5 NEW YORK UNIVERSITY LAW SCHOOL</h1>
<p>Number applied: 131
Number admitted: 25
Acceptance rate: 19%
Number matriculated: 5
Yield rate: 20%</p>
<h1>6 UNIVERSITY OF CALIFORNIA-BERKELEY LAW SCHOOL</h1>
<p>Number applied: 109
Number admitted: 12
Acceptance rate: 11%
Number matriculated: 4
Yield rate: 33%</p>
<h1>7 UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO LAW SCHOOL</h1>
<p>Number applied: 100
Number admitted: 16
Acceptance rate: 16%
Number matriculated: 3
Yield rate: 19%</p>
<h1>7 UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA LAW SCHOOL</h1>
<p>Number applied: 100
Number admitted: 13
Acceptance rate: 13%
Number matriculated: 2
Yield rate: 15%</p>
<h1>9 NORTHWESTERN UNIVERSITY LAW SCHOOL</h1>
<p>Number applied: 135
Number admitted: 23
Acceptance rate: 17%
Number matriculated: 7
Yield rate: 30%</p>
<h1>9 UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN-ANN ARBOR LAW SCHOOL</h1>
<p>Number applied: 324
Number admitted: 91
Acceptance rate: 28%
Number matriculated: 46
Yield rate: 51%</p>
<h1>9 UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA LAW SCHOOL</h1>
<p>Number applied: 96
Number admitted: 25
Acceptance rate: 26%
Number matriculated: 4
Yield rate: 16%</p>
<h1>12 CORNELL UNIVERSITY LAW SCHOOL</h1>
<p>Number applied: 78
Number admitted: 22
Acceptance rate: 28%
Number matriculated: 3
Yield rate: 14%</p>
<h1>12 DUKE UNIVERSITY LAW SCHOOL</h1>
<p>Number applied: 96
Number admitted: 28
Acceptance rate: 29%
Number matriculated: 0
Yield rate: 0%</p>
<h1>14 GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY LAW SCHOOL</h1>
<p>Number applied: 194
Number admitted: 39
Acceptance rate: 20%
Number matriculated: 13
Yield rate: 33%</p>
<p>The link below provides all of the details, including the average GPA and LSAT scores of students admitted and matriculated into each Law School. </p>
<p>
[quote]
kwu, how come Michigan isn't in your top 20 list for Harvard Law? I would be very surprised if Michigan's per capita representation at HLS were higher than 90.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Alex that list was apparently a compilation of the the two earlier list I compiled a couple years back (universities and LACs). I noticed that the list kwu posted (i haven't double checked it) but it appears to be a combination of those two lists - i.e. universities AND LACs together.</p>
<p>As you know, I generally don't like mixing those two together, but the top 4 LACs (A / W / S) had HLS ratios which would put them squarely in the Top 10, with Amherst ranking a solid #4 behind only H / Y / S. Swathmore's ratio looks a bit high according to my original data, however, so I'm not sure if there have been any further adjustments to my original post.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Number applied: 96
Number admitted: 28
Acceptance rate: 29%
Number matriculated: 0
Yield rate: 0%
[/quote]
</p>
<p>wow..........</p>