<p>D is planning on trumpet performance at a university or college.</p>
<p>How would you rank the top 10 universities for "degree of difficulty" of audition acceptance? i.e., # of students auditioning vs. # of spots for freshmen. Just looking at schools in the Northeast, Mid-Atlantic, and Midwest.</p>
<p>Among universities, I'm guessing Northwestern might be the toughest with probably 100+ kids auditioning for 2-3 freshmen spots.</p>
<p>Thanks.</p>
<p>Your question is not an easy one to answer. Are you also asking about the relative competiveness of the music program in general, or just about the %age of trumpet performance majors? For example, I know that in the 2003 year, only one trumpet performance major was accepted at U of Maryland College Park. Three trumpet performance majors were accepted at New England Conservatory. Does that make UMDCP a "higher ranked" program than NEC? Probably not. (although I will say that Chris Gekker, the trumpet teacher at UMDCP is perhaps one of the top teachers in the country...but so are the BSO players who teach at NEC). In 2003, Boston University had 12 freshmen trumpet players (they had a very unusually high yield that year). In 2004, the accepted NO trumpet players. Does that difference in acceptance make BU's program more highly ranked in 2004? Nope...but I will also say that Terry Everson (at BU) is perhaps one of the most highly sought after teachers (and players) in the region.</p>
<p>The reality is that the number of openings and the %age of students accepted flutuates from year to year...and is dependent on who comes and goes in the programs. </p>
<p>Now....having said that, I would agree that NU is one of the strongest programs. They have two of the strongest trumpet teachers as the head of the studio. They consistently put out top players. The competition is intense AND the openings are few. The music department at NU is outstanding, especially their brass.</p>
<p>Does Philadelphia count as "mid Atlantic". If so, I would say that Curtis would be the top school in that area.</p>
<p>You're right, it's a tough question. I should clarify. I was wondering about the "audition competitiveness". Northwestern was 1 example. Maryland is another. I've heard typically 60-70 trumpet players audition for 1-3 freshmen spots (and possibly skewing towards Maryland residents).</p>
<p>The region where we're looking is largely in the Northeast, maybe as far west as Illinois and south as Maryland. We're trying to find universities or colleges with good trumpet studios that will take more than just a couple of freshmen. Or are all the better schools looking to fill only 1-3 spots per year?</p>
<p>Well, I'm not a trumpet player myself, but according a freshman at the University of Iowa, he says the trumpet professor (maybe the Jazz one?) is nationally known. Of course, this is coming from a student already at the U of I, so it may be biased - I really have no idea, but there's my own crusty two cents. ; )</p>
<p>Impossible to rank the schools...some universities with great teachers:
1) Northwestern: Barbara Butler and Charles Geyer
2) UMich: Bill Campbell
3) UCLA: Jens Lindemann
4) Oberlin: Roy Poper
5) Yale: Alan Dean
6) USC
7) Rice/Shepard: Marie Speziale
8) Vanderbilt
9) Johns Hopkins/Peabody
10) UMaryland: Chris Gekker
11) UArizona: David Hickman
12) North Texas
13) Ed Carroll: McGill or Dartmouth or both (and CalArts)
14) BU: Terry Everson (I think Thumper will agree he's a great teacher)
Conservatories:
1) Juilliard
2) Curtis
3) Eastman
4) Cleveland
5) Mannes
6) New England
7) N Carolina
8) SFC</p>
<p>I know I am leaving off some great schools. I'm sure they will be filled in by other posters!</p>
<p>Ack...left off Indiana...and CM....
As far as degree of difficulty: it depends on so many factors---how many spots are open, how much the teacher wants the student, how well the student auditions...It's best to research where your daughter wants to go and what she is looking for in a teacher and in a college experience....and then go for it! S has friends that all placed well (and none thought they would). Two buddies got into NW and Mich, one into Curtis, one into Indiana. There's so much that goes into the audition/selection process that it's impossible to say which is the most difficult to get into. For some colleges, there are academic requirements (Yale, NW, Mich, UCLA, etc). Indiana has a big program. It's competitive once you get there, but there are more freshman spots.</p>
<p>Impossible to rank the schools...some universities with great teachers:
1) Northwestern: Barbara Butler and Charles Geyer
2) UMich: Bill Campbell
3) UCLA: Jens Lindemann
4) Oberlin: Roy Poper
5) Yale: Alan Dean
6) USC
7) Rice/Shepard: Marie Speziale
8) Vanderbilt
9) Johns Hopkins/Peabody
10) UMaryland: Chris Gekker
11) UArizona: David Hickman
12) North Texas
13) Ed Carroll: McGill or Dartmouth or both (and CalArts)
14) BU: Terry Everson (I think Thumper will agree he's a great teacher)
Conservatories:
1) Juilliard
2) Curtis
3) Eastman
4) Cleveland
5) Mannes
6) New England
7) N Carolina
8) SFC</p>
<p>I know I am leaving off some great schools. I'm sure they will be filled in by other posters!</p>
<p>Ok, I'm signing off...I'm obviously tired..have no idea how this got posted twice...sorry about that!</p>
<p>Thanks, symphonymom, for a great list. Many of the schools getting considered are on it. Conservatories are not on the list, unless within a university like Oberlin. Peabody and Eastman are part of JH and UR but both schools are disconnected from the main campuses.</p>
<p>D is a fundimentally solid player with a high GPA, but not 1st chair all-state or a national competition winner. I'm guessing those are the kids winning the few spots at Northwestern or Maryland. So, we're looking at as many schools as possible.</p>
<p>I've heard SUNY Purchase is underrated and worth considering, but I don't know how many are accepted there.</p>
<p>Yale offers no UNDERGRAD performance degrees, BA's are in the academic music disciplines and it is rare that an undergrad is taught by Yale SOM grad school faculty. Most lessons are given by grad students and TA's unless the instructor specifically requests you.</p>
<p>Other factors to consider in looking at overall quality of a program besides the primary instructor are strength of peers (across all instruments), number and opportunities of varied small ensembles, quality of facility and availability of practice rooms, percent of grads to undergrads. Performance and gigging opportunities also may play a part, as will institution locale and size of student body.</p>
<p>Competitiveness is a relative term. The talent pool varies from year to year, as does the need and therefore quantity of admittees. Some years are far tougher than others.</p>
<p>And regardless of talent, any audition based program is a crapshoot. There are no guarantees.</p>
<p>The programs listed by Symphonymom are ALL based solely on audition. The OP's son's GPA won't matter one bit in acceptance to the music program as a trumpet performance major. Very talented players audition for those programs (Yale is only a graduate program). </p>
<p>The first thing I would do is to try to figure out just where this guy is in terms of potential and talent. Discuss this with the private teacher and any other musician who KNOWS this kid's playing well. They might be able to give you good direction.</p>
<p>The impression I'm getting is that you are looking for a trumpet studio with a good program and higher acceptance rates than the tippy top programs.</p>
<p>I would suggest Duquesne in Pittsburgh (their trumpet faculty is all Pittsburgh Symphony players...excellent), and the Hartt School. I will say if both of these schools have excellent trumpet players and studios, but might be a tad less competitive. However, I will also add that the academics at both schools are not highly competitive either. BUT having said that...most trumpet performance majors spend more time with their music (as they should) than with the academic classes at their college...usually taking the CORE requirements...and that's it.</p>
<p>P.S. I DO agree that Terry Everson is a top teacher of the trumpet...and a wonderful person, and a terrific trumpet player as well.</p>
<p>Trust me, I teach at Baltimore School for the Arts- University of Maryland at College Park does NOT favor Maryland residents. In fact, it seems to favor out of state residents; historically our best students do not get into UMCP, but do get into prestigous conservatories/universities (Julliard, Oberlin, etc.).</p>
<p>David Hickman is not at the U of arizona, he is at Arizona State, a consistently overlooked School of Music here at CC. If your D is open to looking at the Southwest, take a look at their offerings and facilities.Both are top notch.A unique opportunity there for academically oriented undergrads, as at other Universities,is the ability to combine the BM in Performance with enrollment in an Honors College setting.</p>
<p>For each of the past two years, a Northwestern trumpet student has become the latest member of the New York Philharmonic. That's pretty amazing.</p>
<p>Just a note...the NUMBER of students accepted into a trumpet studio does not necessarily equate to the strength of the program (Just because a program only accepts one student...does NOT mean it is necessarily a strong program). The strenght of the program is based on many criteria...(many already noted by Violadad) including the studio teacher(s), the strength of the ensembles (and their directors), the strength of the overall music program, the playing opportunities for the students, and to some degree the success of the students in the job placement after graduation.</p>
<p>This is an old discussion we had this year regarding Purchase. It is super super selective, and this always seems to surprise families every year. We are New York residents, and everyone around here seems to assume that Purchase can be a safe school for music, but it really is not. They take tiny numbers of musicians every year, and its reputation is excellent, and price very very enticing, so everyone applies.</p>
<p>Violadad is absolutely right...Yale undergrad is not performance. Alan Dean does take one undergrad (S visited the one undergrad player in his studio). His graduate studio is amazing (we heard them rehearse...wow).
Matt Muckey (NY Phil/Northwestern) was a monster player from birth...we call those freaks of nature. I heard him live last month...he's just a really beautiful player...he played with Lang Lang and got his own very well deserved bow. The kid is just incredibly musical and his tone is glorious.
Ethan Bensdorf (NY Phil/Northwestern) must be great as well...he won a lot of competitions. If these kids are getting those kind of jobs right out of college, we are talking about prodigious talents. Not the usual route.
Not all Northwestern students are like Matt and Ethan...those are the exceptions not the rule.
Thanks for the correction about David Hickman. He's supposed to be a wonderful teacher.</p>
<p>Hey Thumper, I could be wrong, but I think GPA does matter to the university trumpet programs (not the conservatories). If one is a great player, I think that GPA is less of an issue, but if the kids are admitted to a college (such as NW, Mich, CM, Yale, UCLA, etc), one has to meet certain academic requirements.
Another option for the OP is seeking out a great teacher and a great youth symphony program near the college of choice. It's absolutely not the same as a program such as NW or Mich, but it is an option. For example, Cosmos (poster on CC and a bass player) takes lessons from a conservatory teacher and goes to a university.</p>
<p>Symphonymom...yes...in some cases the student DOES need to also be admitted to the university and their academic creditials count...for THAT. Their academic credentials, however, will not gain them acceptance into the trumpet studio at those universities. I.e. Just because the student gets accepted academically to NW, Mich, CM, Yale...grad, UCLA, BU, UMD....does NOT mean they will get accepted into the trumpet studio. And a higher GPA will not really help them in that music acceptance. Once they are accepted into the university, it's the audition that gets them into the studio...regardless of their academic stats. I thought the OP was inquiring about the academics as they relate to the MUSIC acceptance...in most cases...they don't.</p>
<p>Thanks, everyone, for all the valuable info so far.</p>
<p>I understand the "disconnect" between academic admissions and audition admissions at universities. With incoming GPA, SAT, etc., I wonder if music performance it not far from college athletics. If there is a HS student athlete who gets recruited by many schools but lacks academically, that kid are going to get into a top college for their sport based on their superior athletic achievement. I've heard from one major university's music school admissions office that, if a student completely nails the audition but has a marginal transcript and SAT, the professor may lobby admissions to get the kid into their studio.</p>
<p>When we hear of schools where 100 players audition for 2 spots, I'm guessing those professors may have an idea (in advance) about which HS seniors they are going to have in the fall based on NTC, ITG, etc., much like a top NCAA basketball coach knows the McDonald's All American players. Is there scouting and recruitment for music schools? :D</p>
<p>We're (not so) simply trying to find "the right fit" for a solid young player with good fundimentals, top in their HS, who plays in several ensembles (classical and jazz) at a conservatory's prep school and in a respected local youth orchestra.</p>