<p>I just came back from touring the highest ranked school that I'm applying to, it's math and econ programs are both rated in the top 10 in the nation (my desired major)...but i don't know if i want to go there. One of the previous schools i visited is in the 50-100ish range but i really dug that school.</p>
<p>This top school talked about the study abroad program, the benefits of being in this area of town and the unique celebrities and guest professors that come speak at the school, but none of that is important to me.
This other school (the #50-100 range) spent the whole tour talking about how small the classes were, how involved the teachers were, how the entire school encourages discussion and debate on a ton of issues and how the core studies prepares students for a life of self examination and service.</p>
<p>I've reached out to students at both, and the responses are that the top school has a great alumni network, but you feel like just another student in a huge college. The other school has a much more personal connection to the professors that every student raves about, but their alumni/career center isin't equal to the better school.</p>
<p>Im sure a lot of people would die to have a degree from this top school, would i be a fool for passing it up for a school i felt fit my tastes better?</p>
<p>Will I suffer in the job market or in grad school applications for not going to the highest rated school that would take me?</p>
<p>Without giving further information, you could unintentionally incite a war over how valuable prestige and rankings actually are.</p>
<p>To actually get useful responses, you need to specify:</p>
<ul>
<li>The schools involved.</li>
<li>The net costs after non-loan financial aid and scholarships.</li>
<li>Your possible plans for work and/or graduate school afterward.</li>
<li>How advanced you are in math and economics course work upon entry.</li>
</ul>
<p>because the real answer is, “it depends”.</p>
<p>If the size of classes is a concern, see if each school’s schedule of classes shows the class sizes.</p>
<p>It’s not just about the size of the classes. It seems that students of one school talk about how accomplished their professors are and how huge the student body is, and the other talk about how engaged and committed the professors are to the students. I see it as cultural differences. </p>
<p>The schools involved:
~~NYU and Fordham</p>
<p>The net costs after non-loan financial and and scholarships
~~Both free due to GI Bill</p>
<p>Your possible plans for work and/or graduate school afterward.
~~Not exactly sure what job I want to pursue, more focused on the skill set I want to gain by studying Econ/Math. I don’t see myself becoming a banker. At this point I could see myself going to grad school, looking for work with a think tank, or looking at something doing analyst work.</p>
<p>How advanced you are in math and economics course work upon entry
~I’ve taken a few college classes (I’ll be a transfer student after a layoff for military service) including Calc and a handful of econ classes. I’m running through [Khan</a> Academy](<a href=“http://www.khanacademy.org%5DKhan”>http://www.khanacademy.org) to refresh my mind before I walk back in the classroom.</p>
<p>(1) At NYU your professors will be among the most well-known researchers in the field. Does that mean you may get a better education? Not necessarily. A world-leading economist may not be the best teacher. But, the NYU name will carry you farther than Fordham, and it would be generally assumed that you would receive a better education from NYU - as it is a world leading economics department.</p>
<p>(2) Your information on class size isn’t entirely accurate.</p>
<p>At NYU 59.4% of classes have 20 or less students; Fordham only has 49.9% of classes with 20 or less students.</p>
<p>That means that NYU has a lot more classes with 20 or fewer students, since NYU has significantly more classes than Fordham.</p>
<p>NYU has 28.4% of classes with 20-49 students; versus 48.3% at Fordham. Which means you’ll have fewer classes with 20-49 students at NYU than you would at Fordham.</p>
<p>NYU has 12.1% of classes with 50+ students; versus 1.8% at Fordham. Here’s where Fordham wins the class size competition. But, does it really matter in this category what the class size is? I doubt there’s much of a difference between 50 and 100 people in a lecture hall. </p>
<p>NYU’s class sizes aren’t as large as people usually think; NYU actually has an excellent class size ratio, and beats out schools such as Notre Dame, UCB, UCLA, (and many other rank 20-30 schools) in terms of having small class size. </p>
<p>Of course, I’m biased, but I would most certainly choose NYU over Fordham. Namely because, at least I feel that, NYU is more intellectually challenging than Fordham.</p>
<p>You may want to check the course catalogs for each school, and ask the economics and math departments at each school how graduates placed into graduate school.</p>
<p>Perhaps others more familiar with these schools’ economics and math departments can give you more information.</p>
<p>To clarify, I’m looking at the Lincoln Center Fordham campus which has no lecture halls only classes, NYU has large lecture halls for some of its undergrad classes which account for the numbers you presented i think.</p>
<p>Yes, NYU has some large lecture halls for some intro classes. </p>
<p>However, as the numbers say, on average, you’ll have smaller classes at NYU than you would at Fordham. Remember, NYU’s student-to-faculty ratio is 11:1 versus Fordham’s 13:1.</p>
<p>Campus matters, when there are multiple campuses, so if class size is important to you, check that out with the people at Fordham-Lincoln Center.</p>
<p>And here is the other thing: You are already a grown up, and you clearly know your own mind. What is important to you, and what is important to a typical-age college student may be very, very different. I would suggest that you seek out the Veteran Advisor/Non-Traditional Student Advisor on each campus, and get in touch with your peers who are studying at each place. The other Vets will be able to help you sort out which institution is a better choice for you. It is perfectly OK for you to choose the institution that you believe is a better fit for yourself. Worry less about “ranking”, and more about whether or not you feel you can be more successful at one or the other.</p>
<p>Looking at the % classes in each range does not allow you to compare class sizes among schools. That’s because larger classes affect more students than smaller classes do. So a school with 75% under 20 and 10% over 50 could easily have larger classes on average than a school that has 60% under 20 and 15% over 50 - if the former has many more classes on the whole. To compare them, take the midpoint of each class size range and multiply it by the # classes in that range, which gives you the number of “student-classes” in that range. For NYU, that’d go:</p>
<p>5 x 355 = 1775
15 x 1522 = 22830
25 x 561 = 14025
35 x 210 = 7350
45 x 100 = 4500
75 x 196 = 14700
150 x 164 = 24600
Total: 89780
([Section</a> I3](<a href=“Research with Human Subjects”>Research with Human Subjects))</p>
<p>Few caveats: the average for each range might not actually be the midpoint (though this likely wouldn’t change the results much), and the average for 100+ is just a guess, although 150 is the “standard” when people do these calculations (it’s probably higher in this case, but we’ll stick with 150). As you can see from the above, only 27% of the student-classes are in under-20 classes - nowhere near the 59% figure would lead you to believe. And 44% fall into the 50+ category. The fact that there’s a 10% difference in under-20 classes between NYU and Fordham is mostly inconsequential, since those class sizes affect few students (you’d need a much larger gap for it to really have an effect). But the fact that there’s a 10% gap in the 50+ class size category is huge - especially considering that, in terms of raw numbers, NYU has a great many more classes, so having 12% of them over 50 means tons of students are affected by them. Having only 1.8% over 50 is very impressive, comparable to the most elite LACs - not even HYPSM come close to that figure. (I’m actually taken aback that it’s only 1.8%. That’s rare, especially for a “lower ranked school.”)</p>
<p>If you can find the common data set for Fordham to do the same calculations, you’d likely find that Fordham students spend very little time in large (50+) classes. They also likely spend more time than NYU students in under-20 classes, despite having 10% fewer of such classes.</p>
<p>Class size can vary by major, and by course level. Large lecture classes are most common for first and second year courses in popular majors. That is why, if class size matters to you, you really do need to talk to people who are on the spot.</p>
<p>My S is at Fordham and I can tell you that he has not had one large lecture class (introductory and core classes included). Most classes seem to be around 30. When we went to a Dean’s List ceremony earlier in the year, three of his professors came over to congratulate him afterwards and they all knew him by name (and he’s a quiet kid).</p>
<p>(con’t)My S did not even apply to NYU because it was the size of school or type of environment he was looking for (he wanted more of a traditional college campus and went to RH). He has friends who love NYU, it just wasn’t what he wanted.</p>
<p>People choose lower ranked schools for many reasons including financial and personal preference. My S is a senior and got into a great grad school so if you do well at Fordham, the sky is the limit. Best of luck wherever you end up.</p>
<p>I agree with Happymom you need to speak to the vet counselors at each campus. You state: “Both free due to GI Bill” but as far as I know you are capped at a private U to $17.5K per academic year unless you are a fully participating Yellow Ribbon school. Fordham has a good amount to add but NYU only adds $3500 to the amount. [Welcome</a> to the GI Bill Web Site | The Home for All Educational Benefits Provided by the Department of Veterans Affairs](<a href=“http://gibill.va.gov/gi_bill_info/ch33/yrp/2011/states/ny.htm]Welcome”>http://gibill.va.gov/gi_bill_info/ch33/yrp/2011/states/ny.htm) Sounds like you’ll only have 1/2 tuition paid for there.</p>
<p>I don’t think this is true. NYU has somewhat higher entrance stats for students, but it also aggressively chases every academic fad, while Fordham offers an extremely solid, traditional Jesuit education. If offers plenty of challenge.</p>
<p>As a transfer student who attended a school ranked near Fordham with similar admissions statistics and having applied to Fordham and been accepted but turned down the offer, I have to disagree. </p>
<p>Fordham, being a Jesuit school, has a very limited student body - many people are turned off by the idea that Fordham is a Jesuit school and thereby it caters to a much more limited student body; i.e. other ideologies which aren’t Christian/Catholic or otherwise religious aren’t as well represented. I think it’s an important part of a liberal arts education to challenge one’s beliefs and concepts, and I don’t see their curriculum or student body as significantly challenging one’s belief in faith or fairly or significantly representing other world cultures, ideologies and so on and so forth. I’m of the impression that a liberal arts education consists of as much learning in class as outside of class; and I just don’t see Fordham as presenting a significantly diverse student body.</p>
<p>Not only that, Fordham being a Jesuit school has directors and so on and so forth that dictate a religious education and ideals. Personally, I don’t find some of the school’s rules and regulations to be in accord with the best possible higher education model. </p>
<p>Finally, NYU’s admissions statistics are only somewhat comparable to Fordham’s. NYU’s average SAT/ACT scores in the same range as schools such as Cornell. GPA’s between NYU and Fordham are, however, more comparable with 31% of NYU students and Fordham students having 3.75+; but 27% of Fordham students have 3.5-3.74 versus NYU’s 37%; 91% of NYU students are the top quarter, versus 78% at Fordham. This is not a huge difference, but it does still make a difference. Having attended a school with comparable academics to Fordham and then having come to NYU, I can attest to there being a higher academic standard and rigor at NYU than at schools such as Fordham. This of course is not to say that Fordham is by any means a ‘bad’ school, of course not, it’s excellent. It, however, is not the same as NYU.</p>
<p>Of course, all of this is my subjective opinion, so feel free to point out anything which I’ve said that may be inaccurate or an unfair representation of either school.</p>
<p>^ If you had actually attended Fordham your opinion would carry some weight. As it is, particularly with your comments about Jesuit schools, they are IMO just pretentious.</p>
<p>Are you really going to say that Jesuit schools don’t have less diverse student bodies and equally represent different cultures, ideologies, belief systems and so on and so forth? </p>
<p>Let’s look at BC, for example. They don’t really recognize the LGBT organization on campus there because technically, that doesn’t coincide with Catholic beliefs. And, students at BC have told faculty that they don’t want posters from the LGBT organization posted in their dorms. Clearly ‘open to other ideologies’? No.</p>