<p>"Watching a member of the race who has it the "best" whine isn't going to have solve any racial tensions, but rather enflame them."</p>
<p>Good point, Ranks</p>
<p>ranks, i bet you are asian, so don't talk about how we shouldn't whine. you're even saying that your race has it the worst.</p>
<p>but i won't agree that whites have it the best. i'd LOVE to have affirmative action. and i've been "discriminated against" by a schoolbus full of young black kids yelling "dude, radical, dude" but i'm not holding a grudge against them, it was stupid. that's probably what 90% of minorities who say they've been discriminated against face, and it really isnt very hurtful. so the people who have it the best are the people getting panhandled with special opportunities based on their race, and its not the whites anymore. for many young whties it never was.</p>
<p>Seniorsrule, you're right on.</p>
<p>how many minority presidents have we had? how many female presidents have we had? i'd love to hear about it.</p>
<p>People in the ghetto and living 10 to a house aren't exactly having it the best.</p>
<p>I can't believe you can zoom in on a single line which notes nothing but a single exception to what you said, and then accuse me of whining in turn. Yes, I am Asian American. Did my comment, even as a sidenote in parenthesis exhibit any type of whining? Absolutely not. What <i>you</i> did was make an entire topic complaining that your race was being discrminated against. The only thing about my race that I even remotely included in my reply was neither a call for sympathy nor the end of discrmination against me, but rather an accepted fact that someone has it worse than you in that singular department, which you seemed to be overlooking. </p>
<p>My commment was to exude IRONY upon the fact that on the subject of AA your complaint is that you aren't being given SPECIAL TREATMENT like only SOME of the other races are. That I find hilarious. It shows that you aren't advocating for equal rights, but only care about what's happening in your own narrow scope in life. If this is the exent to which you care about the subject of racism, then you are essentially part of the problem itself.</p>
<p>pugfug90, not only black people can be poor. i don't think you realize that.</p>
<p>and Ranks, I don't want affirmative action, I siad I want it gone. colleges try to be diverse these days, and what that means is turning down a white person for a person of ANY other race even if that means they have to sacrifice a better candidate for a lesser one (even if it's only a fine line, better is better). trust me Ranks, let's send in the same application, transcripts, resumes, and stuff and see who gets picked. i can guarantee it'll be you. what i want is not special treatment for my race. i want NORMAL treatment for my race or less special treatment for others. it sounds the same, but it's not.</p>
<p>If anyone should be complaining about an imbalance, it's Asians because overall their scores are much higher than any other racial or ethnic group's scores. While they account for as much as 1/3 of the population at many top private universities, since such colleges want diverse student bodies, many Asians are being turned down in favor of other students -- INCLUDING WHITES -- whose scores and gpas are lower.</p>
<p>In reference to how some have suggested that blacks just need to catch up to other minorities who have excelled academically, one can say the same about whites needing to work harder to catch up with Asians, many of whom come from nonEnglish speaking families. If you check in CC's archives, you can find threads about an area where white families were taking their kids out of a public school because they didn't want their kids to have to compete with high scoring, high gpa Asians, who got those scores and gpa because they were willing to study much harder than most of their classmates in the school.</p>
<p>yes, but that's also a stereotype. last year none of the kids from my small school who got into harvard were asian.</p>
<p>
[quote]
yes, but that's also a stereotype. last year none of the kids from my small school who got into harvard were asian.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Yes, the number of kids who got into a SINGLE institution from a "SMALL" school is statistically exhaustive enough to reach a conclusion. Thats what my Stat teacher would call a "SSSSS"-stupid small sample size screw-up</p>
<p>Edit: Also, your conclusion furthers my point. It confounds me that you would state such a conclusion when you are arguing that we have it easier. "YOU GUYS HAVE IT EASIER THATS WHY NONE OF YOU GOT INTO HARVARD"...what?</p>
<p>
[quote]
trust me Ranks, let's send in the same application, transcripts, resumes, and stuff and see who gets picked. i can guarantee it'll be you.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I don't know wether to laugh out loud or be competely ****ed at your ignorance. Read these forums. Do some research. Please.</p>
<p>"In an earlier article in this journal, Espenshade, Chung, and Walling
(2004) examined the strength of admission preferences for underrepresented
minority students, athletes, and alumni children at three highly selective
private research universities in the United States. Using data from the National
Study of College Experience on 124,374 applications for admission
during the 1980s and the fall semesters of 1993 and 1997, they found that
elite universities give extra weight in admissions to candidates whose SAT
scores are above 1500, who are African American, and who are student
athletes. A smaller, but nevertheless important, preference is extended to
Hispanic and legacy applicants. African-American applicants receive the
equivalent of 230 extra SAT points (on a 1600-point scale), and being
Hispanic is worth an additional 185 SAT points. Other things equal, recruited
athletes gain an admission bonus worth 200 points, while the preference
for legacy candidates is worth 160 points. Asian-American applicants face a loss equivalent to 50 SAT points."</p>
<p>For starters.</p>
<p>so Ranks will agree with good stereotypes but will not permit bad ones. That's a confusing argument.</p>
<p>It's "good" to be discrminated against in the admission process? What?</p>
<p>I didn't make up that report. I'm *<strong><em>ed that my chances at colleges are shot because of my race "generally does better on standardized testing". It *</em></strong>es me off even more when someone thinks he has it so hard, when with a little bit of research it would be obvious that there are others who are even more at a disadvantage.</p>
<p>I would be more sympathetic to the poster if he wasn't a complete moron in this topic:</p>
<p>"Drunk as hell
High as heaven
Were the class of 2007"
"Born 2 make love
Cuase we can
Born 2 hate
Even though it's a sin"
- seniorsrule</p>
<p>:(</p>
<p>seniorsrule, i was wit u on most things until u made that completely bs coment about asians gettin in over whites. It not only shows complete obliviousness but it also shows that your trying to dramatize the situation white people like they actually have it that bad w/ regards to asian ppl. If ur gonna say sh1t, say sh1t thats actually true.</p>
<p>I agree with flyguy64..</p>
<p>
Yeah, I'm sure you don't find a lot of those where you live, because if you did, you wouldn't actually believe in that media jargon politicized by irresponsible black leaders. Minorities don't "feel the pain" of their ancestors as much as the drawbacks of the culture that they are being brought up in. I'm from Detroit, which has arguably the highest African American population in the country, and I can say with some authority that the problems they're facing now are not as much derived from slavery as they are from the lack of responsible role models. Young Blacks today are more influenced by the ideas preached by JayZ, Kanye West, and Ludacris than they are by the messages of African American success stories like Dr. King, Rosa Parks, and Bill Cosby. TURN ON MTV AND TELL ME WHAT YOU SEE...swear words, violence, drug abuse->typical stuff right?? Um not if you're an African American growing up in a ghetto. It's one thing for an educated white or Asian individual to listen to rap and appreciate it as a unique form of personal expression but it's another thing when African Americans and Latinos living in poverty can't separate the good from the bad and thus go on belive it's ok to objectify women by referring to them as "*****es" and to sell drugs for quick cash. Where's the adult figure in this situation to tell the child what's considered appropriate, respectful behavior and to preach the value of education??? Most young Blacks and Latinos lack this sort of influence going up and they drop out of high school and give up what they need the most to pull themselves out of their state of misery, an education.</p>
<p>It's not as much that minorities are trying to change the status quo as much as they are giving themselves up to be victimized by it. My parents suffered much more growing up than any African American is today in this country regardless of socioeceonmic status in my native country. My parents grew up in a house without electricity and no modern conveniences that everyone enjoys in our society today. They had to walk to their school that was 3 miles away barefoot often since there were no schoolbuses, no properly paved roads, and my grandparents didn't have enough money to give them more than 1 pair of clothes every year. All my grandparents did was tell my parents that the only way to succeed in life was to study and work hard and thsi was all they needed to motivate themselves. My father would join a group of kids daily who would crowd around the only kerosene lamp that was lit in the entire village just so he could study from his tattered textbook in the night. He was from a lower caste as well so he could not even access some of the meager ecuational resources that were available in the area like a low-skilled tutor. But you know what?? My parents were able to go to some donation-college nearby and performed so well on their exams that they were given rare scholarships to pursue even higher ducation. Now, they are here in the US and make more than 99.8% of the American population. This isn't the only rags to riches story there is out there...</p>
<p>Almost every minority living in the United States today has experienced some form of racism throughout history and in contemporary times. Chinese Americans were forced into the railroad business in the mid 1850s for scanty wages and even worse living/working conditions. The Chinese Exclusion Act is a dark mark on the experiences of thousands of Chinese Americans who first came to this country looking for opportunity but did this "unfair treatment" destroy the futute of Chinese-Americans in this country?? Think again...Chinese-Americans are the wealthiest minority in the country today and occupy a very large percentage, with relation to their population percentage, of the white-collar jobs here. I'm sure the argument of AA advocates like yourself to this fact would be that slavery is equivalent to dehumanization and was exponentially worse than what the Chinese for instance experienced.</p>
<p>But what is slavery really?? Did slavery lead to a genocide where millions of Africans Americans were brutally murdered like the Jews were in the Holocaust and the Tutsis were in Rwanda?? Slavery signifies the complete ownership of another individual but is it worse than living in a diseased land like Africa where millions die of AIDS, malaria, etc. every year?? These are all moral questions that not everybody on this site will agree upon for sure. However, I think we can all agree that slaves were provided with daily meals and a roof over their head. I am NOT condoning slavery but I do think that the life of a slave was much better than the lives of many other races of people worldwide at that time. Slavery is reprehensible on a moral level of course but does it justify permanent financial inequity and inadequacy on the part of its victims?? Absolutely not.</p>
<p>You can't give me a straight face and honestly tell me that even the poorest minority in the US doesn't have the opportunity to become educated and successful. Does discrimination and racism stop him/her from picking up a used SAT/ACT prep book from a bookstore. Does discrimination and racism stop minorities from doing their homework and picking up a book and reading??? Does discrimination and racism stop impoverished minorities today from rising the same bus, eating the same meal, going to the same washroom as a white person?? NOPE.</p>
<p>Over the centuries, many minorities/ethnicities/religions were discriminated against and have rebounded. Black people today care less about education today than their fathers and mothers did, who cared less about education than their fathers and mothers did, etc. Somewhere along the line the voices of men of reason of like Martin Luther King were lost behind the speeches of irresponsible Black leaders like Jessie Jackson and rappers like Kanye West who preach that Blacks are inherently inferior to other races so they should be treated separately. Dr. King's dream has evaporated in the mind of young blacks today since they see they see their own teachers selling cocaine and their best friends murdering police officers on the streets. The root of Affirmative Action is to place THESE people on a equal playing ground to upper-class whites and Asians, and is thus a part of the problem and not the solution.</p>
<p>To me, AA is another form of slavery. It makes perfectly intelligent teenage African Americans feel that they don't possess the same academic ability as their fellow white and Asian peers. The system justifies inadequacy and carries the message that "Without special quotas like this, you black people are hopeless." Like I said before, OF COURSE there are no Black role models, support groups, or positive adult figures to tell these kids otherwise. Thus, young black boys and girls progress believing that they have to be discriminated from high-achieving kids from other ethnicities of the same age ONCE AGAIN to account for their ineptitude. I know that's false, you know that's false, but do they know that's false?? Why should we blame them right, because after all, if we treat them differently then of course they'll consider themselves to be different. But what about when these same Blacks apply for internships or interview for jobs?? You can bet that AA doesn't exist there. In our global marketplace today, employers could care less if you're black or white if you can't perform the job or meet company demands. Are we doing justice than to these minorities then, making them belive that a crutch will always exist for them?? You're right about one thing vegangirl, discrimination and racism still exists and its name is Affirmative Action. You can't right a wrong the wrong way and pretend that everything's going to work out. Justifying inequality in the past with inequality in the form of AA today, which gives special priveledges to undeserving Blacks today that are far detached from the pain of their ancestors, is slavery of the mind.</p>
<p>Good night.</p>
<p>I almost was feeling your message even though I disagreed, until you equated affirmative action with slavery o.o</p>
<p>We all have the same opportunities and ability to achieve, but we aren't all brought into situations that encourage it.</p>
<p>evil<em>asian</em>dictator- nice essay ^_^</p>
<p>Once you move away from the merits and start color coding, there's really no end.</p>
<p>Right now, many schools are starting to discriminate against asians in top universities, because as a group they can represent a threat to the all important religion of DIVERSITY, as they are starting to be represented in numbers far greater than their proportionate population numbers in the United States. How fair is that? The UCAL system a few years back was actually caught putting ceilings admissions on Asian applicants</p>
<p>What about the very low passage rate of black applicants to the bar in California? Should they be given (in effect) a special bar exam and receive "hardship points" as was proposed a number of decades ago, and ironically (but quite logically) was stopped (among other things) by certain Black Atty associations who didn't want to be permanently stigmatized by lowering the standards for a designated class.</p>
<p>I believe the evidence shows that the vast majority of affirmative action "minority" admittees to the top universities in the United States arrive not from economically disadvantaged backgrounds, but from middle and uppper middle class backgrounds and beyond, hardly people still suffering from the after effects of slavery.</p>