Revival of Middle Class Black Posters

Parents Forum
541

<p>I'm w/ Shrinkrap; if a urm student doesn't need the help, fine. But why get insulted. If the urm 4 or 6 yr graduation rates are lower that the college/uni's average, the unl/lac has good reason to offer assistance.</p>

<p>Colleges/unis use such past performance in any number of context. If too many students from high sch "X" decline offers of admission, the college may admit fewer student from shc"X." If students from school "Y" struggle and drop out, the college may admit fewer students from school "Y" or require a much stronger profile for students from sch "Y." </p>

<p>Also, the SAT scores are predictive for only the first year of college. Some students with weaker admissions profiles will graduate in 4yrs w/o incident, others with stronger admissinos profiles will struggle and fall by the way-side. If the college knows that AS A GROUP urm students, struggle more than white students, offering assistance to avert a catastrophe is a good thing. Students and parents should think of the urm programs as similar to mandatory alcohol or sexual harass prgms - -having to attend the prgm doesn't mean the college thinks any particular student is an alcoholic or date rapist in training. Being asked to attend a urm program doesn't mean the college thinks any individual urm is a lesser students, just that others with a similar and identifiable characteristic have, in the past, needed some assistance. If you don't want to attend, politely refuse, but no need to get one knickers in a bunch.</p>

542

<p>Nyc, I agree but I think what Dbate was saying was that he was targeted for a program that he didn't need. He was apparently solicited because he was a Black male. I"m sure the organization meant no harm and actually probably thought they were doing something positive. But, these kids are very diverse in terms of academic preparation and experiencs. I recall at one college I worked at years ago, an Indian students (from India) resented being referred to by university officials as a student of color. His issues were more class oriented. He was very upper-class and truly looked down on Black and Brown students and was totally offended that he would be thought of in the same manner as these students. I wanted to tell him welcome to America.</p>

543

<p>If SAT scores are predictive for the first year, then why not have a program aimed at, let's say, students in the bottom 25% regardless of race? That would make more sense to me, JMO.</p>

544

<p>It really depends on the type of college. Most colleges are really trying to eliminate "remedial" programs for students when they get to college. They try to have programs prior to these students getting to these places. Some places have summer high school programs to get student college-ready. But, mostly these are for students who are first generation colleges and have no knowledge about the college appilcation process, the financial aid process as well as how to survive (academically and socially) in college. But, I really don't think these are the kinds of programs that middle-class Black parents would be involved in. There are other programs that attract higher income and well prepared kids like Questbridge and Posse. These programs really target college ready kids.</p>

545

<p>The year my daughter attended Amherst's Diversity Open House Weekend, there were a lot of non-urm students from the midwest. So IMHO, I don't think that one should get turned off because they have been invited to a diversity weekend or someone is tapping them for an opportunity. If it is not an opportunity that you feel you want or need, then the best thing you can do is to pay the information forward because there is another person that does. </p>

<p>This is probably one of the main reasons I still stay on CC although my child has gone through the process. I remember when I first started posting, NSM, poetsheart (formerly valpal) LakeWashington, Kat and a couple of others where the only few minority parents posting. So I feel good to participate on a thread of topics of importance to black posters here on CC.</p>

<p>There are many different types of diversities and I think that there can be something to be learned at everyone. Because even amongst AA's we do not all have the same experience. </p>

<p>It is important for low income AA's to know that everyone is not low income and every one with a couple of $$ is not necessarily chasing a hoop dream or waitng on a record deal. Those who have grown up with priviledges still need to remain cognizant that for many the struggle is not over (remember that those who do not learn from their history repeat it). Some will never have their 40 acres and a mule, and we cannot allow our selves to be so full of ourselves that we forget those that paved the way. </p>

<p>We need to remind our young people that if they do not do anything else, they need to get an education and they need to vote because these are priviledges as for many this is not even 2 generations removed from them. Not only because of the transformative power of education and having your voice heard because you vote against something just as much as you vote for something, but because our parents, and grandparents marched, fought and prayed that their children and their children's children would be able to reap these opportunities. Every time we turn our backs on these things, we are spitting in the face of our legacy. </p>

<p>I remember at my D's graduation this past spring talking to the grand parent of one of her friends (who brought about 30 people to graduation, no joke). She teared up as she spoke about how this was such a proud day for her family that they could go from her, who never got to finish school, because school was not in session when the harvest was in season and she had to work in the fields. She talked about going from how and did days work to put her own children through school to having a grandchild who was graduating from an Ivy league school and I was totally able to relate to how she felt, because my parents went to school in a one room class room in the south and had to work the fields in the south during the harvest too.</p>

<p>So no matter what our socio-economic status is or how many degrees we have picked up, there are still common threads that we share. Many of us who are parents of a certain age remember growing up in the middle of the civil rights era and seeing our parents watching or participating in the March on Washington. It is important that we and our parents (if they are still with us) share the story of our history in this county, because yes, our souls do look back and wonder how we got over!</p>

<p>Sorry for going on so long, back to the thread :)</p>

546

<p>I remember a young woman who was Spanish who said she was part of the posse program and hated the college she went too. They were nice in the beginning, but once college started, she didn't fit in. For her though it was being the only poor student she met and not understanding how shallow so many of the other young women sounded.</p>

<p>I agree, with the poster that said they should target ALL students who fit a profile, not just ones of color. I think as someone stated, if an athlete got the same scores, grades, etc. and was not asked to prep, that it is insulting to someone who did better but has a different racial background. The extra help might be great, but the stigma stays with you.</p>

547

<p>
[quote]
Most colleges are really trying to eliminate "remedial" programs for students when they get to college.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>lmpw,</p>

<p>you are totally on point with this statement. I tell my kids at least once a week that no matter how good your GPA is there is no remediation at the 4 year CUNY and SUNY schools. If you don't meet the academic threshold to be remedial free, you will be attending community college is you go to CUNY/SUNY.</p>

548

<p>Dbate, I too agree. My D felt insulted with all the targetting from different schools because she was AA. She was invited and attended Brown's Diversity weekend. She declined the others. She is competetive ranked 4th in class and worked very hard. She doesn't like any other treatment, but to be treated as equal to those of her caliber.<br>
DeBruns, we also were going to do Holy Cross diversity overnite, but D wanted a very large urban school so she opted out. But, with that said, my young cousin just graduated (2008) and she was given a very large scholarship to attend. They encourage diversity and are willing to give lots of many for you to attend. So I would definitely consider it.
I think that these colleges have to encourage diversity so they create these awareness programs that go to HS and host overnights and programs so that they can draw a pool of multicural students. This may be in compliance with and funding sources they receive, etc.</p>

<p>But you know, at the end of the day, if they want to give the money away, then I say go for it.</p>

549

<p>I am glad that others feel the same sentiment as I do, I realize these people are trying to help and whatever, but the very basis is (to some degree) racist, in that it is based on the perception that black students obviously need help.
Not to bring up a point of contentiousness, but this is the reason that I resent institutionalized policies such as Affirmative Action. The fact that they exist, to me, sends a tacit message that minorities can not achieve without aided help.
To bring up the dreaded Clarence Thomas :). I remember reading that the primary reason he was so against Affirmative Action is that after graduating from Yale Law School (which is the BEST law school in the entire country) he could not even get a job. The reason was that all the employers thought that he was only admitted because he was black. This despite the fact that he was in like the top 2% of his class at Holy Cross.</p>

550

<p>That is true....I have heard Holy Cross is very frustrated that they can't get more minorities. The woman I spoke too said she wasn't sure why. I told her I couldnt' say, but if some felt "put off" by the way they approached them, that might be one of the reasons. For my son, it just wasn't a fit at all and my husband found the admissions office rude, the only college that he said wasn't very friendly toward them. I wont go into it again, but it left a bad taste and I wouldn't want to visit in the future.
My son was invited to the Amherst diversity weekend but he didn't think his stats were up to par with that school and didn't want to visit/apply. I also think some of these visits are also ploys to increase applications to some colleges, but they can be fun and informative.</p>

551

<p>I understand why you don't like Afirmative Action, but you must understand it was very needed at the time because colleges were not admitting AA or women. It was to insure that these institutions were complying with equal access to education. And Clarence Thomas benefited from AA, he otherwise might not have been accepted to Yale with out it in place. But fast forward to 2008, There has to be a better way to make sure that there is equal access for all, based on merit and ability.</p>

552

<p>Milkandsugar, the one event I would strongly suggest our kids attend would be these diversity weekends that these tops colleges and universities sponsor to recruit highly competitive students. To get invited and selected for these programs is highly competitive. You have to apply and send in ones records (if they didn't already have them). These institutions are investing a lot of money to compete for these top students, so if you get selected to fly into one of these campuses, that's pretty much ensures your child has a strong liklihood of acceptance. There is no stigma to coming to the Diversity weekends. Actually, it's quite the opposite. If you're invited to come, that means you are outstanding and the college wants to do a sale pitch to ensure you don't go elsewhere.</p>

553

<p>But the one thing I do remember about the Amherst Open House is that there was also an application (screening) process in order to get the invitation (I don't know if this has changed in recent years). I remember when my D applied she had to turn in transcripts, SAT scores, and write an essay (it was like to a mini application). I know that Dartmouth, Smith and Williams weekend are also an application screening process.</p>

<p>There were a couple of kids who applied for the weekend and did not get extended an invitation. At that time if you were accepted to the Open House you had a pretty good chance of being accepted when you applied.</p>

<p>x-posted with lmpw. I too think it is a good idea to apply for them because then you will get a feel as to whether or not you would a viable candidate in the admissions process.</p>

554

<p>Oh I agree with you 100%, Impw. My D did attend a few. They also keep track of your attendence and interest. She gained admittance to all but one.
She is now a freshman. I highly recommend attendance to these programs, its just they way they do it sometimes. But you have to do what you got to do. Education in prime.</p>

555

<p>Dbate, a little tid-bit about Clarence Thomas and Cedric Jennings, the minority student accepted to Brown years ago with low stats. He told him to not join any black theme houses, clubs, etc. and not to just stick with just students of color. He didnt' want him thought of as just a black student. I'm sure his past clouded his judgement, but you can't change someones views that easily. And yes AA did help him when otherwise he might have been overlooked.
I remember when my son was in school, he was doing well and even went into upper classes for reading when in grade school. He was always on the shorter side and a mom mentioned she sure hoped he shot up so he could get a basketball scholarship one day.....I asked her why and she said, "well, so he can go to college". Another mom piped in that maybe he'll be able to use his brain". She turned red and I felt uncomfortable but it was obivious at that point she spoke without thinking.</p>

556

<p>debuns, I would have to respectfully disagree that the diversity open houses are a "ploy" to get student applications. In the case of Amherst, I hardly think the app fees from the approximatly 200 students that attended came even remotely close to the money they spent for the event. I would assume other schools are the same.</p>

<p>Oops cross posted with many.</p>

557

<p>If I also remember correctly that if you are invited to the Amherst weekend, should you decide to apply to Amherst during ED or RD, your application fee is waived (so no ploy on their part).</p>

558

<p>
[quote]
"It was to insure that these institutions were complying with equal access to education."

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I agree that it was very appropiate at its inception, but now I think it has out lasted its usefulness. I think a better approach would be a de-institutionalized approach but one that stills factors in race.</p>

<p>By this I mean something akin to the geographic boost, like how students from Iowa might have a better shot than a student from Manhattan. Because diversity should still be a goal. The problem is the preception that is formulated by such institutionalized programs that causes for a pervasive sense of minority inferiority, which is not the case. I believe many black students who are admitted today are academically qualified on equal standing as others who apply, but they bear a stigma that is misplaced because of the perception.</p>

<p>By elimnating a formal program a university can still attain the diversity and end the negative perception attached to black students. This is a subtle change, but one that I think would fix the entire thing.</p>

559

<p>Dbate, I don't want to keep hyping Amherst but I have to say that this college is a model for excellence and diversity. There is absolutley NO stigma amongst these students. You could not get (or stay) in a place like Amherst unless you were absolutely academically talented. The retention rate and graduation rate of Black students is second to Harvard, I think by only a percentage point (96/95) or something close to that. The reality is, despite what stats you have, often people have preconceived notions about you. One of my closest friends went to Wellesley in the late 1960s. She said Wellesley wanted to give her a full scholarship but her father refused it becasue he was a well-to-do Black phsyician and he wanted white people to know that Black people had money. She said it was the most ridiculous thing from her eyes because she said white people at the time assumed that any Black person at Wellesley was there on scholarship. So, she said he should have just taken the scholarship. It's funny how often Black people are so concerned about white perceptions.</p>

560

<p>I don't remember that Sybbie719 but it might have been true. So many apps came and some of it is a blur. I didn't realize how few students attended but actually a teacher/GC told me to be leary because colleges were doing much more recently to increase apps, free applications, free visits, calls, etc. Of course, she might have her issues too!
I do think a diverse campus is wonderful, and diversity in all areas. My children were spoiled that way growing up. Just our street which is a few blocks long had neighbors of all races, religions and ages. They saw and were friends with Orthodox/Hasidic Jewish families,black, Latino, and Asian. They know they can't replicate this in college but will look for a welcoming atmosphere.</p>