<p>Hi, I got into the BA/MD program at uic. I've also gotten into Duke, JHU, Uchicago and I'm grateful I have options. I know I want to be a doctor. But I feel that UIC in comparison to the institutions I just mentioned would give me less of the undergraduate experience I would like. I was wondering for anyone who has needed to make this decision for their opinion if a rich undergraduate experience is worth forgoing the ba/md or not? Thanks in advance!</p>
<p>Sent from my SGH-T999 using CC</p>
<p>See point 2: <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/pre-med-topics/1484178-if-you-high-school-please-read-before-posting.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/pre-med-topics/1484178-if-you-high-school-please-read-before-posting.html</a></p>
<p>Start reading around post #36 here (maybe a little before): <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/pre-med-topics/1486866-yale-vs-washu-med-program-3.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/pre-med-topics/1486866-yale-vs-washu-med-program-3.html</a></p>
<p>Congratulations! Since you know you want to be a doctor, UIC MA/MD program deserves a lot of consideration. I am not very familiar with the matriculation requirements for the UIC program. If they are reasonable (~3.5 GPA and ~30 or no MCAT), you can pursue all your goals at undergraduate level in a pressure free environment and still know that you will definitely be in a medical school eventually</p>
<p>Don’t get met wrong, your other choices: Duke, JHU and UChicago are all great schools and will prepare you well for medical schools. However, keep in mind that attending these schools is not an assured path into medical schools. You still have to maintain a high GPA and score well in MCAT. Doing so, at relatively grade deflated schools like JHU and UChicago, facing stiff competition from smart kids, while not impossible definitely is not easy. Quite a few of the pre-meds from these schools eventually attend their state medical schools anyway, if ever they even get that far.</p>
<p>Sounds like 3.5 and a requirement to take the MCAT (does not seem to require a score).</p>
<p>[FAQ</a> for Prospective Students - UIC GPPA Medicine](<a href=“Guaranteed Professional Program Admissions (GPPA) | University of Illinois Chicago”>Guaranteed Professional Program Admissions (GPPA) | University of Illinois Chicago)</p>
<p>The sorts of kids who get into early assurance programs – in this case, you – are usually the students who will not have issues getting into medical school in a few years anyway. To severely compromise your undergraduate experience because you’re anxious about that would be a serious mistake.</p>
<p>Make no mistake, getting into medical school is hard for most kids. But the schools are selecting the sorts of kids who are very unlikely to have trouble with medical school admissions in a few years (that’s why they’re picking you, after all) – and they’re capitalizing on your anxiety to try to push you into attending a school which you would otherwise not consider.</p>
<p>There might be other reasons to pick UIC. If you have a sick family member and want to stay near home; if the tuition at elite privates is a deterrent; etc. UIC’s a great university and I’m sure you’ll learn what you need to learn there (although BA/MD students sometimes become a little too complacent). But your college years are some of the most important, and best, of your life. I can’t recommend compromising that in pursuit of a “promise” which you won’t need, and might not even want, anyway.</p>
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<p>That’s pretty darn reasonable. Harukikara, a proverbial bird in hand is worth several assurances on an internet bulletin board :)</p>
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<p>This would be true if he weren’t giving anything up. A bird in hand may be worth two in the bush, but is it worth three? Or four? Or what if the one in his hand keeps biting and scratching, or won’t be very tasty, or what if what he really wants is not a bird at all but a hamburger…</p>
<p>… I’m getting carried away with the analogy, aren’t I?</p>
<p>Why are people so scared of getting into med school the traditional route? The MCAT isn’t some big scary monster. There are very few bs/md programs that are worth it, in my opinion.</p>
<p>I don’t think it’s a matter of being scared. It’s matter of understanding the probabilities and taking a smart and informed decision on a case by case basis. Traditional route is the only route for most, since there are very few early admission seats/programs these days. I have seen the whole spectrum. My eldest brother’s son did FlexMed at JHU in the 90s. His second son did MD at UCLA medical school in the traditional route. My second brother’s son did LSU 6 year program. My own son is a traditional applicant in this cycle. My second son is a high school junior. If he get’s into a early admission program, I would advise him to take it, if its reasonable. Unfortunately, he doesn’t want to be a doctor. At least, not yet …</p>
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<p>Here is a quote from a JHU pre-med (Post #5 in <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/pre-med-topics/1484764-tufts-vs-middlebury-pre-med.html[/URL]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/pre-med-topics/1484764-tufts-vs-middlebury-pre-med.html</a>)</p>
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<p>Hopefully, these kind of cautionary tales give a better perspective to the OP in the midst of all the sunshine that is being pumped here. There are very few guarantees in life, and there are even fewer guarantees with medical college admissions.</p>
<p>Why does someone interested in medicine work on dual degrees in a very hard premed school like JHU? </p>
<p>OTOH, it does not say that this kid was one admitted to a combined program and chose to go to JHU.</p>
<p>The OP should bear in mind that again, we all acknowledge that the premedical track is hard <em>for most kids.</em> But BA/MD programs are not picking <em>most kids.</em> They’re awarding spots to the sorts of students who are extremely likely to be doing just fine in a few years.</p>
<p>It would be one thing if the program wasn’t asking the OP to give anything up. I’d tell him/her sure, go ahead and pocket the acceptance and see what happens in four years. But they’re asking the OP to give up something very, very precious indeed, and they’re capitalizing on premed hysteria in order to drive a select group of kids into giving up their college dreams in order to grab onto the safety of a guarantee.</p>
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<p>I saw that anecdote, and was curious to learn more about his situation. It’s not clear to me whether his GPA is really “too low” or whether he’s being picky about what kind of medical school he wants to go to, or whether his chances are being realistically assessed, or whether he thinks it’s a problem with his GPA but it’s actually another problem. (I do know that SMPs often have relatively high incoming GPA thresholds, but I don’t know anything about this one.) He also alludes to his other “faults/weaknesses,” and I don’t know whether he’s referring to poor study habits, a high-maintenance significant other, or some kind of anxiety disorder or other mental illness. Finally, he tells me that he came from a very competitive high school, but everybody thinks that their high school is “very competitive.” Unless he’s talking about Exeter or Andover or something similar, I’m skeptical.</p>
<p>Besides, weren’t you the one scolding me earlier for using anecdotes?</p>
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<p>If we’re going to trade anecdotes, let’s use mine.</p>
<p>I graduated in the middle third of my high school class. I would not have been competitive for a BS/MD program, I don’t think.</p>
<p>I went to Duke, where I graduated with a GPA higher than my high school GPA despite receiving a C in organic chemistry and a couple of other B’s in chemistry. I also got C’s on the exams in a biology class but had a great lab partner who salvaged my grade into an A-; I got a B in physics exams except for an extra credit term paper on the nature of magnetism.</p>
<p>Despite a C and multiple B’s, I had roughly a 3.8 with roughly a 3.6 science GPA. I did very well on the MCAT, but several of my college classmates (including my next door neighbor) did better, so it’s not like I was some kind of historic event at my school or even in my own hallway. Certainly relatively few people ooh’d and aah’d over it.</p>
<p>I was a non-science major. While I had pretty strong summer experiences, I did almost no extracurriculars during the school year other than one semester of hospital visits (playing checkers with inpatient kids) and one semester of tutoring at a local church. I am not an underrepresented minority or a major donor or in any way newsworthy.</p>
<p>I applied to 7 of the top ten medical schools in the country. (At the time, there were about twelve “top ten” schools due to ties.) I got into 4 of them while being rejected by 2 and waitlisted without movement at a third.</p>
<p>Am I leaving out a lot of facts? Obviously; that’s the nature of anecdotes. But I’m trading my one for that one.</p>
<p>Also, I should quote some other pieces of the other guy’s anecdote.</p>
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<p>^ He just said, schools like JHU can be dangerous places, if you want to be a doctor. Are you sure you really wanted that quote? :)</p>
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<p>Let me put it this way. When I make an online purchase, I zero in on negative feedback on both merchant and the product, and try get to the bottom of that, before I put in my order.</p>
<p>My own son is a positive anecdote. His college GPA is better than his high school GPA also. He has slightly better stats than Yours. I hope, he does as will as you did with his admissions, but that’s a different story:) I am neither trying to be presumptuous nor am I trying to say, what you and my kid was able to accomplish in the traditional route, is out of the reach of the OP. OP might out do both you and my kid. </p>
<p>And, yes it is an anecdote. However, I know that this story is not too uncommon. I can’t say this about many schools - but I know a decent bit about JHU. Getting A grades, beating out 80% of the kids, in the pre-med classes takes a lot of hard work. Just as you weren’t sure about this JHU kid’s pedigree, we don’t know about the pedigree of the OP either.</p>
<p>I thought the excerpt I quoted was a balanced representation of what he was saying.</p>
<p>These kids can focus on one of two things. If they’re as risk averse as you suggest, they can focus on the single worst case scenario and try to make sure that that doesn’t happen. In that case, they’re all going to walk into an Ivy League assuming that they’ll have nervous breakdowns, fail all their courses, and end up lonely and miserable for the rest of their lives wishing they’d attended an easier school.</p>
<p>But that’s not the sound way to look at it, just as a single piece of negative feedback on ebay shouldn’t cause you to buy something that you actually don’t want just because it’s “safer.”</p>
<p>The sound way is to look at what you’re gaining in exchange for what you’re giving up. And the price of a “guarantee” – giving up on the college experience you want, and the other opportunities that that opens up – is just too high for something that almost certainly won’t matter in the end anyway.</p>
<p>I can’t wait for the college football season to begin or to be done with the application process of my kids to be over, whichever comes first. I am spending way too much time hanging around here at CC, indulging in debates like “does god exist?”, “is pen mightier than sword?”, … :)</p>
<p>People still use pens?</p>
<p>OK. Soft keyboard on the smartphones. My bad:)</p>
<p>I have been reading all the helpful posts with great interests in order to advise DS14. Thank you to those of you who took the time to explain your thoughts in detail.</p>
<p>I guess it would help to shed a bit of light on myself. I attend a selective enrollment school in my city and it’s considered one of the top schools in IL. Though compared to what I’ve seen around CC, I’m definitely not the CC kid. I’m not the kid juggling 3 leadership positions, varsity sports, a job, research for cancer cures, and national musical recognition all at once and there may be one classmate that come close. But that’s it.</p>
<p>I’ve received what I think is a full-ride to this program versus paying a considerable amount for the other schools. However, I wouldn’t have to pay full for any of these schools and I would have to pay for half for UChicago what I would for Duke/JHU. My parents aren’t against paying and are encouraging me to choose without thinking about the money first.</p>
<p>“Sounds like 3.5 and a requirement to take the MCAT (does not seem to require a score).”</p>
<p>Yep! They actually encourage students to apply out to higher ranked medical schools and help them do whatever they can to push them towards that goal.</p>
<p>The main qualm I have with forgoing the BA/MD program is that I might not make it into medical school if I attend these other schools. The Focus program/Duke Engage, the Civ program at UChicago, or other similar programs are the opportunities I’m afraid to be missing out if I attend UIC. Meanwhile, the connections I could make at these schools would be lost on UIC as well.</p>